uuugh....

vince56

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Reading the paper this morning got me thinking...

The Cardinals 2002 draft sucked.

1 12 Bryant, Wendell DT 6-4 308 Wisconsin
2 49 Fisher, Levar OLB 6-1 233 North Carolina State
3 81 McCown, Joshua QB 6-4 221 Sam Houston State
3 98 Johnson, Dennis DE 6-5 258 Kentucky
4 113 Dwyer, Nate DT 6-3 313 Kansas
5 149 McAddley, Jason WR 6-1 203 Alabama
6 185 Scobey, Josh RB 5-11 218 Kansas State
7 223 Banks, Mike

Bryant, - crap so far
Johnson, Dwyer, McAddley, Banks - crap and gone
McCown, Scobey - only two that are productive
 

clif

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yikes!!!!

and we question DG?? he can't do much worse.. can he? GOD i hope not....
 

Cheesebeef

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vince56 said:
Reading the paper this morning got me thinking...

The Cardinals 2002 draft sucked.

1 12 Bryant, Wendell DT 6-4 308 Wisconsin
2 49 Fisher, Levar OLB 6-1 233 North Carolina State
3 81 McCown, Joshua QB 6-4 221 Sam Houston State
3 98 Johnson, Dennis DE 6-5 258 Kentucky
4 113 Dwyer, Nate DT 6-3 313 Kansas
5 149 McAddley, Jason WR 6-1 203 Alabama
6 185 Scobey, Josh RB 5-11 218 Kansas State
7 223 Banks, Mike

Bryant, - crap so far
Johnson, Dwyer, McAddley, Banks - crap and gone
McCown, Scobey - only two that are productive

wow. At least we got Josh and Scobey out of it - even though we have no idea how productive those guys will end up being . . . Scobey does seem like the real deal as far as KO returns though! :thumbup:
 

Gee!

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Ya that looks horrible.

BTW, Vince you going to the game/tailgate? I do remember you from Jodi's team now. We were the only 2 that wore Cards gear.
 

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It's to be expected...

Understand that each year a massive influx of rookies are brought into the league, replacing mediocre or disappointing veterans from previous drafts.

It's not good to see your upper picks become disappointments, but it's not surprising. Every team sees this every few years or so.

It's all about the upside, and after two years, if the veterans haven't shown it, you can guarantee there are rookies who show promising upside to replace them.
 

Cardsmasochist

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most of our draft's have sucked

except for this past one.

I think Green did an excellent job this year with the draft. With a couple more Green drafts we will have a playoff team.

Looking at all the pre-Green drafts makes me nauseous.
 

clif

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yeah but...

look at this year
2001
Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
1 2 Davis, Leonard T Texas
2 34 Vanden Bosch, Kyle DE Nebraska
2 54 Stone, Michael FS Memphis
3 64 Wilson, Adrian SS North Carolina State
4 98 Gramatica, Bill K South Florida
4 123 Bell, Marcus DTMemphis
5 133 Fatafehi, Mario DT Kansas State
6 166 Newcombe, Bobby WR Nebraska
7 202 Hill, Renaldo CB Michigan State
7 246 Ofahengaue, Tevita TE Brigham Young


not too bad.
 
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jvanhill said:
Understand that each year a massive influx of rookies are brought into the league, replacing mediocre or disappointing veterans from previous drafts.

It's not good to see your upper picks become disappointments, but it's not surprising. Every team sees this every few years or so.

It's all about the upside, and after two years, if the veterans haven't shown it, you can guarantee there are rookies who show promising upside to replace them.
No way dude, a draft from 2 years ago with that high of picks should have netted somebody of woth, hopefully that person is McCown. But Bryant is becoming a BUST, and Fisher is cut. When you have that high of picks you should land some sort of quality
 

Cardsmasochist

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clif said:
look at this year
2001RdSel#PlayerPos.School12Davis, LeonardTTexas234Vanden Bosch, KyleDENebraska254Stone, MichaelFSMemphis364Wilson, AdrianSSNorth Carolina State498Gramatica, BillKSouth Florida4123Bell, MarcusDTMemphis5133Fatafehi, MarioDTKansas State6166Newcombe, BobbyWRNebraska7202Hill, RenaldoCBMichigan State7246Ofahengaue, TevitaTEBrigham Young

It still kills me that we could have traded with San Deigo that year and gotten Michael Vick. Leonard Davis still needs to prove he's not soft.
 

DevonCardsFan

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Coach Mac and company were some draft Guru's :rolleyes: atleast they lucked out with Boldin, it was just a fluke though they lost there top 3 Wr's on the depth chart and had to draft 2 in round 1 and 2. No way did they have some special Insight on Boldin, it was a need pick. Coach Macs drafts really sucked
 

Mr.Dibbs

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clif said:
look at this year
2001
Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
1 2 Davis, Leonard T Texas
2 34 Vanden Bosch, Kyle DE Nebraska
2 54 Stone, Michael FS Memphis
3 64 Wilson, Adrian SS North Carolina State
4 98 Gramatica, Bill K South Florida
4 123 Bell, Marcus DTMemphis
5 133 Fatafehi, Mario DT Kansas State
6 166 Newcombe, Bobby WR Nebraska
7 202 Hill, Renaldo CB Michigan State
7 246 Ofahengaue, Tevita TE Brigham Young


not too bad.

Fatafehi and Bell are still in the league. Not a bad draft.
 

Tangodnzr

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vince56 said:
Reading the paper this morning got me thinking...

The Cardinals 2002 draft sucked.

1 12 Bryant, Wendell DT 6-4 308 Wisconsin
2 49 Fisher, Levar OLB 6-1 233 North Carolina State
3 81 McCown, Joshua QB 6-4 221 Sam Houston State
3 98 Johnson, Dennis DE 6-5 258 Kentucky
4 113 Dwyer, Nate DT 6-3 313 Kansas
5 149 McAddley, Jason WR 6-1 203 Alabama
6 185 Scobey, Josh RB 5-11 218 Kansas State
7 223 Banks, Mike

Bryant, - crap so far
Johnson, Dwyer, McAddley, Banks - crap and gone
McCown, Scobey - only two that are productive


I have to disagree quite a bit here.

Yeah, I know its a bandwagon-type deal these days to dump on Mac and all the "terrible" things he did. :rolleyes:

Any draft is a crapshoot, of sorts. You make educated guesses and hope the perceived talent develops.
Which brings me to a point I don't think a lot of people address much.....
That being that many of the present day football fans are a generation that seems more into fanstasy league play, Madden, etc.
In conjunction with that I see a leaning to a couple of major trends.
Everyone gets caught up in individual stats and the "team" dynamics don't seem to be given less and less importance.
Along with that seems to be an over-riding tendancy to expect too many college players to make an immediate impact in the pros.
Most of the time it just ain't gonna happen.

Its always easy to look back with 20-20 hindsight and say "what a crappy pick that was"...I see it all the time....and SOMETIMES it is indeed true.

The simple fact that more and more people seem to keep denying is that for most young players its going to take an average of 3 years until they really start realizing any "full potential" and THAT depends on a number of things, starting with the attitude of the player themselves, then the coaching staff and also the situation of the team itself.]
Many times players get pushed into the lineup before they really should be, out of supposed need.

Players like Quan, who make headlines with their immediate impact are really not the norm. For every Quan there is a "ton' of players that never start making much of an impact until they have spent 3 years in the league, adapting to the higher general talent level and the "speed" of the pro game.

There are a number of reasons why that development doesn't always go as planned, again ranging from the player's attitude, work ethic, etc, itself ...to the coaching they get. Which THAT, I will concede is a legitimate complaint about some of Mac's staff.

Also, to be fair and objective, I think if you compare other teams drafts, at the same time, anyone can find things to criticize if they look for it.

Each year there are what? about 250 players drafted out of college plus maybe another 100-150 undrafted free agents brought in for a look.

If you really take the time to calculate how many of them are impact players their first two years, I'll bet anyone that wants to bet, that the % is not going to be very high.


Looking at the Cards draft in 2002, here's my alternative "take".

Bryant: Now starting his 3rd year. This is the year most pro coaches really expect to start seeing major productive results. Couple that with the fact that Bryant came into camp late, had Joe Greene as a DL coach, and maybe wasn't mentally ready yet himself. I'm not ready to write him off just yet. In fact, during pre-season, I felt he showed flashes of showing some of the promise he was drafted for.

Fisher.....I put him in much the same catagory as Andre Wadworth. I don't think it's legitmate to criticise a draft when a player gets taken down due to injury. That's not something any human can project. Fisher, was also, I feel pushed into a starting role sooner than he should have been, out of perceived "need". As with all the players in this "class" this is their 3rd year, the year they should be expected to start living up to their "potential".

McCown...I say now like I said last year....he reminds me, in many ways of John Elway. Granted, few people will ever have the physical talent and tools of John Elway, but Josh does have a lot of similarities, and could very well indeed be one of the better QB's in the league.
Thankfully he wasn't thrown into the fire too soon.

Dennis Johnson....just suffice it to say, as I have several times already, I think cutting him was a big mistake. My impression is, for whatever reason, Green just never seemed to give him much of a chance. I still maintain he's going to be a quality player in this league.

Dwyer....as with everyone, you win some, you lose some. He just didn't pan out. It happens to all teams. I don't think drafting him was any bozo move...he just didn't pan out, for whatever reason.

McAddley....looked like a great pick. Everyone had high hopes for him. Actually flirted with being a starter. Not bad at all for a 5th round pick.

Scobey...this is a bad 6th round pick?

Mike Banks....likewise...showed some promise, but TE is one area on this team that has been very competitive. Once again for a 7th round pick, I can't see any legitimate complaint.

All in all, I think dissing that draft is way premature and if compared to other team's drafts really not all that bad at all.
 

KingofCards

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Tango are you Dave McGinnis' cousin or something?

You are delusional when it comes to his coaching stint here.
 

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Tangodnzr said:
I have to disagree quite a bit here.

Yeah, I know its a bandwagon-type deal these days to dump on Mac and all the "terrible" things he did. :rolleyes:

Any draft is a crapshoot, of sorts. You make educated guesses and hope the perceived talent develops.
Which brings me to a point I don't think a lot of people address much.....
That being that many of the present day football fans are a generation that seems more into fanstasy league play, Madden, etc.
In conjunction with that I see a leaning to a couple of major trends.
Everyone gets caught up in individual stats and the "team" dynamics don't seem to be given less and less importance.
Along with that seems to be an over-riding tendancy to expect too many college players to make an immediate impact in the pros.
Most of the time it just ain't gonna happen.

Its always easy to look back with 20-20 hindsight and say "what a crappy pick that was"...I see it all the time....and SOMETIMES it is indeed true.

The simple fact that more and more people seem to keep denying is that for most young players its going to take an average of 3 years until they really start realizing any "full potential" and THAT depends on a number of things, starting with the attitude of the player themselves, then the coaching staff and also the situation of the team itself.]
Many times players get pushed into the lineup before they really should be, out of supposed need.

Players like Quan, who make headlines with their immediate impact are really not the norm. For every Quan there is a "ton' of players that never start making much of an impact until they have spent 3 years in the league, adapting to the higher general talent level and the "speed" of the pro game.

There are a number of reasons why that development doesn't always go as planned, again ranging from the player's attitude, work ethic, etc, itself ...to the coaching they get. Which THAT, I will concede is a legitimate complaint about some of Mac's staff.

Also, to be fair and objective, I think if you compare other teams drafts, at the same time, anyone can find things to criticize if they look for it.

Each year there are what? about 250 players drafted out of college plus maybe another 100-150 undrafted free agents brought in for a look.

If you really take the time to calculate how many of them are impact players their first two years, I'll bet anyone that wants to bet, that the % is not going to be very high.


Looking at the Cards draft in 2002, here's my alternative "take".

Bryant: Now starting his 3rd year. This is the year most pro coaches really expect to start seeing major productive results. Couple that with the fact that Bryant came into camp late, had Joe Greene as a DL coach, and maybe wasn't mentally ready yet himself. I'm not ready to write him off just yet. In fact, during pre-season, I felt he showed flashes of showing some of the promise he was drafted for.

Fisher.....I put him in much the same catagory as Andre Wadworth. I don't think it's legitmate to criticise a draft when a player gets taken down due to injury. That's not something any human can project. Fisher, was also, I feel pushed into a starting role sooner than he should have been, out of perceived "need". As with all the players in this "class" this is their 3rd year, the year they should be expected to start living up to their "potential".

McCown...I say now like I said last year....he reminds me, in many ways of John Elway. Granted, few people will ever have the physical talent and tools of John Elway, but Josh does have a lot of similarities, and could very well indeed be one of the better QB's in the league.
Thankfully he wasn't thrown into the fire too soon.

Dennis Johnson....just suffice it to say, as I have several times already, I think cutting him was a big mistake. My impression is, for whatever reason, Green just never seemed to give him much of a chance. I still maintain he's going to be a quality player in this league.

Dwyer....as with everyone, you win some, you lose some. He just didn't pan out. It happens to all teams. I don't think drafting him was any bozo move...he just didn't pan out, for whatever reason.

McAddley....looked like a great pick. Everyone had high hopes for him. Actually flirted with being a starter. Not bad at all for a 5th round pick.

Scobey...this is a bad 6th round pick?

Mike Banks....likewise...showed some promise, but TE is one area on this team that has been very competitive. Once again for a 7th round pick, I can't see any legitimate complaint.

All in all, I think dissing that draft is way premature and if compared to other team's drafts really not all that bad at all.

It's ridiculous to try to justify this draft. Is there any wonder why this franchise continually struggles?? You cannot continue to have busts come out of your 1st 3 rounds & expect to field a competetive team. All the excuses in the world can't give credence to this abomination of a draft. Whatever success DG has will bank on how well he drafts!!!!
 

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PACardsFan said:
It's ridiculous to try to justify this draft. Is there any wonder why this franchise continually struggles?? You cannot continue to have busts come out of your 1st 3 rounds & expect to field a competetive team. All the excuses in the world can't give credence to this abomination of a draft. Whatever success DG has will bank on how well he drafts!!!!

And of the first 3 picks in that draft. We now have Fisher gone due to bad knees.

Bryant is still here, and entering his 3rd year. As is Josh. Maybe you didn't read my entire post, and one of my main points about it taking 3 years for most players to start producing on the level they were drafted for, even though you pasted all of it...tell me about how big of a bust they are next year or the year after.....once their 3rd year is in the books.

Until then you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I say your take and those similar is still very premature, and certainly not any gospel just yet.
 

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I think if you pick very high in the first round you shouldn't have to wait three years to get a lot of productivity out of your player... Often times, (not this year) We picked the supposed first player at that particular position that player should be able to do well in the NFL really quickly... To think we picked Davis at #2 and then placed him at guard :x
 

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SunCardfan said:
I think if you pick very high in the first round you shouldn't have to wait three years to get a lot of productivity out of your player... Often times, (not this year) We picked the supposed first player at that particular position that player should be able to do well in the NFL really quickly... To think we picked Davis at #2 and then placed him at guard :x


yeah, what a boneheaded move....just like Dallas' drafting college tackle Larry Allen and making him a guard. :rolleyes:
 

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Tangodnzr said:
yeah, what a boneheaded move....just like Dallas' drafting college tackle Larry Allen and making him a guard. :rolleyes:

And you have so many exceptions to point to too. You got me Tango :thumbup:
 

Tangodnzr

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SunCardfan said:
Ok Tango it was a great move, you are right :rolleyes:

you forgot the Okie dokie. :D

quickness of response = 9
originality = 4
:wave:
 
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