video card

[az240zz]

It appears that I have to get a video card as the one that is built in seems to freeze when playing a game. The puter is an HP running amd 4200dual core processor with only 990 of ram, at least that what the computer info page say. I am assuming that I have a pci slot and an AGP slot available.

I am running windows xp with all service updates. The video is built in and is the Nvidia GeForce 6150le.

We don't do alot of games, mainly puzzles like Puzzle Quest. I do some photo editing and do watch some dvd's.

What would be the best card for the money, at least in your opinion, and how difficult is it to install? I built computers in the early 90's but haven't done one in 10 or 12 years.

I have also read that the power supply isn't the best. Should this be updated??


az240z

 

[Darth Llama]

Before you do anything, you should verify that you have an available expansion slot. You might want to pop it open and see if you have either a PCI-E or an AGP slot available and go from there. What type of slot you have is going to be a big factor in deciding what to go with.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Before you do anything, you should verify that you have an available expansion slot. You might want to pop it open and see if you have either a PCI-E or an AGP slot available and go from there. What type of slot you have is going to be a big factor in deciding what to go with.

 

[BillsCarnage]

If you do have an expansion slot, agp or pci-e, you should be able to pick up a solid card for around $100-$120

 

[Sandan]

With that processor you don't want a high end card anyway. Nvida 79xx might be a reasonable place

The cpu wouldn't be able to feed it fast enough.

 

[Darth Llama]

With that processor you don't want a high end card anyway. Nvida 79xx might be a reasonable place

The cpu wouldn't be able to feed it fast enough.

I'm not sure where that comes from, but I know a lot of people that say that. A 4200+ Dual Core in either socket 939 or AM2 can easily push an 8000 series GeForce Card. I still run a Socket 939 Athlon X2 4200+ Dual Core in my main rig, and trust me, it still has all the power I need. It sounds like for what he needs that even a GeForce 7900 would probably be overkill though, so I see no reason he should have to worry about his CPU. He would get a much bigger boost from more RAM then he would from upgrading his CPU. Even a 4200+ can be overkill on a non gaming system.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I'm not sure where that comes from, but I know a lot of people that say that. A 4200+ Dual Core in either socket 939 or AM2 can easily push an 8000 series GeForce Card. I still run a Socket 939 Athlon X2 4200+ Dual Core in my main rig, and trust me, it still has all the power I need. It sounds like for what he needs that even a GeForce 7900 would probably be overkill though, so I see no reason he should have to worry about his CPU. He would get a much bigger boost from more RAM then he would from upgrading his CPU. Even a 4200+ can be overkill on a non gaming system.

I agree.

 

[Sandan]

I think I was trying to say the same thing. Don't need to go overboard on video.

Though I am surprised a 4200 could keep up with 8xxx card. I would have guessed you need to go further up the AMD food chain for that

How are you judging that ?

 

[Darth Llama]

I think I was trying to say the same thing. Don't need to go overboard on video.

Though I am surprised a 4200 could keep up with 8xxx card. I would have guessed you need to go further up the AMD food chain for that

How are you judging that ?

I'm mostly using frame rates as the measuring stick. Toms Hardware frequently posts video card bench marks, and I'm sure it's no surprise that these are all done with newer and more powerful CPU's then what I currently run. I take the frames they get on my video card set up and compare them against the frames I get in my own tests with the same programs. Granted, there is room for error, I don't claim it to be fool proof method, but I generally find that the frame rate difference from CPU upgrades is negligible on most games, since most games now are coded to put the bulk of the stress on the GPU rather then the CPU. I'm not saying there isn't a difference, but generally I have found that upgrading my chip to a top line, new model AMD chip would gain me an average of 6-11 fps. This is a big deal when you're hovering around the 16-20fps mark, but if you're at 25+ which I usually am, the difference would not be worth the money. I run 2x7900GT's in SLI mode, and I did some tests with a friends 8800GT and found I would get significant improvement buying a 8800 even with my current CPU.

Don't get me wrong though, if I bought a new PC today, I would obviously go with a newer chip. My only point is that a CPU upgrade in his case isn't necessary, nothing more.

 

[Sandan]

I agree on your upgrade point completely.

I was interested in the other comment as a separate issue, its long be a topic of interest for me. Back in the day, I used to pre-alpha test 3d drivers for Hercules, I got friendly with the guy running their QA program and once drivers popped out of development, he sent a copy to me and 3 other guys to test. Lets just say you get real good at removing drivers.

So I understand how the games use the VC. There certainly is a point where the cpu has to feed the VC data fast enough so it can proceed

What you are suggesting is that right now cpu tech has the edge on VC tech. In that even low-mid range cpu like the one we are discussing can keep up with an 8800. As a few years ago if you had tried the same trick the VC would have been starved for input. It also depends on the tests you try and if they can be satisfied from data already in the VC.

In your case if you can feed to 2x7900 then it isn't a huge step up [if at all] to feeding the 8800. If that is true then you are then benefiting from the 8800's faster processing. It might be interesting to see what kind of frame rate you got with a higher end cpu and the 8800.

I go to Tom's a lot as well.

 

[Darth Llama]

I'm sure I could benifit from a new CPU, but right now I am not doing that just because it hasn't yet been necessary for me. The other issue is the fact that my chip is Socket 939, and not AM2, so there isn't really much further up I can go without replacing the mother board.

Eventually, I will of course. Once I get to where my CPU is costing me too much, I will have to upgrade. I can certainly stand to get a faster CPU, but for now what I have works good for me. I'm gonna milk it out as long as I can.

 

[Sandan]

Aren't we all.

Though I think you might want to look at Intel these days. Time was for the last few years AMD was faster and cooler, that time is long past.

Last couple of systems were AMD, now am on Intel E6600 [last year].

AMD are dropping prices to sell, they can't compete on speed these days so they are being forced to cut prices.

 

[Darth Llama]

Aren't we all.

Though I think you might want to look at Intel these days. Time was for the last few years AMD was faster and cooler, that time is long past.

Last couple of systems were AMD, now am on Intel E6600 [last year].

AMD are dropping prices to sell, they can't compete on speed these days so they are being forced to cut prices.

I think that's solid advice.

I have a Laptop with a Core 2 Duo (T7200) and I absolutely love it. I'm not really the type to subject myself to brand loyalty. NVidia, ATI, Intel, AMD, I don't care, I buy the product that offers me the most for the money. Previously, this was clearly AMD's market, but Intel has some nice offerings now that are making me think seriously about an Intel Processor. Probably the only real brand loyalty I have is that I greatly prefer Asus Motherboards, but even that is flexible. I'm definitely going to look at Intel when I upgrade.

 

[az240zz]

I opened the case and there are 2 pci and 1 pci-e available.

I went to a local store called Source computers and they gave me the following prices:

Asus 8400gs 256mb videao card pci-e $52.98
Power supply 500 watt no name 51.75
2 1 gig mem sticks genreic 58.20

The memory does come with lifetime warranty (if that means anything)

Memory is ddr 2 4200 533mhz.


I am going to check Amazon for pricing thru this site.

az2401z

 

[Darth Llama]

I opened the case and there are 2 pci and 1 pci-e available.

I went to a local store called Source computers and they gave me the following prices:

Asus 8400gs 256mb videao card pci-e $52.98
Power supply 500 watt no name 51.75
2 1 gig mem sticks genreic 58.20

The memory does come with lifetime warranty (if that means anything)

Memory is ddr 2 4200 533mhz.


I am going to check Amazon for pricing thru this site.

az2401z

Be careful on that RAM. There are 2 versions of the 4200+, one is a Socket 939, the other is a Socket AM2. The 939 is the older version and does not run on DDR2 Memory, it runs standard DDR. You might want to pull a stick of your RAM out and bring it in to match it up and make sure you get the right stuff. If your chip is an AM2 Socket, you'll be fine.

I would be careful on that Power Supply as well. Generic Power Supplies can be a nightmare. On the side of the power supply, there should be a sticker that gives you the Voltage ratings for the PSU. Look on the +12v Lead, and see how many amps it pushes on that lead. For your system, I would pass on the PS if it's less then 14-15A on the 12V lead. You pay a little more going with a bigger name PS, but in the end it can save you money as good power supplies don't need to be replaced nearly as often. I would recommend a bigger name like Antec or something like that. Note, if the PS has move then one +12v Lead, then you can go as low as 12A per Lead.

As for the Video Card, the 8400GS sounds like a good solution for you. It's a signifigant upgrade from what you had, but you're not wasting a ton of money on power you don't need. I think that's a good card for your needs, and the price is pretty good as well.

 

[Sandan]

Absolutely, noname PSU is a not a good idea.

I build my own systems. IMO if you aren't comfortable with that buy from Dell. Its cheaper and they have support.

I use the hot rod as my baseline then go from there

 

[Sandan]

Agree on Asus MB as well with one exception.

They put out an Nivida chip set based one last year and it was terrible. they needed to wait a couple of months for chip set drivers to stabilize.

Other than that I have had nothing but good luck with their MBs

 

[KloD]

Be careful on that RAM. There are 2 versions of the 4200+, one is a Socket 939, the other is a Socket AM2. The 939 is the older version and does not run on DDR2 Memory, it runs standard DDR. You might want to pull a stick of your RAM out and bring it in to match it up and make sure you get the right stuff. If your chip is an AM2 Socket, you'll be fine.

I would be careful on that Power Supply as well. Generic Power Supplies can be a nightmare. On the side of the power supply, there should be a sticker that gives you the Voltage ratings for the PSU. Look on the +12v Lead, and see how many amps it pushes on that lead. For your system, I would pass on the PS if it's less then 14-15A on the 12V lead. You pay a little more going with a bigger name PS, but in the end it can save you money as good power supplies don't need to be replaced nearly as often. I would recommend a bigger name like Antec or something like that. Note, if the PS has move then one +12v Lead, then you can go as low as 12A per Lead.

As for the Video Card, the 8400GS sounds like a good solution for you. It's a signifigant upgrade from what you had, but you're not wasting a ton of money on power you don't need. I think that's a good card for your needs, and the price is pretty good as well.

No need to open the box, just go to www.crucial.com and run the scan my system icon. Tells you what's in the board and what it can take.

 

[Darth Llama]

No need to open the box, just go to www.crucial.com and run the scan my system icon. Tells you what's in the board and what it can take.

I forgot about that.. great tip.. thank you!!

 

[az240zz]

Wanted to post an update. I got a video card from Amazon but returned it as my system wouldn't work. I have updated the ram to 3 gig and bought a 430 watt power supply from fry's. I am still looking at video cards.

 

[KloD]

Wanted to post an update. I got a video card from Amazon but returned it as my system wouldn't work. I have updated the ram to 3 gig and bought a 430 watt power supply from fry's. I am still looking at video cards.

I get all my stuff from Newegg or tigerdirect as they have the best prices.
What are you looking to spend? I might be able to suggest one.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Wanted to post an update. I got a video card from Amazon but returned it as my system wouldn't work. I have updated the ram to 3 gig and bought a 430 watt power supply from fry's. I am still looking at video cards.

It's not top of the line, but I have a 128M DDR PCI Express card that I will let go for $25. It is an ATI. Brand new, still in electrostatic plastic.

 

[Sandan]

This is a handy tool for estimating PSU requirements

link

 

[Sandan]

I get all my stuff from Newegg or tigerdirect as they have the best prices.
What are you looking to spend? I might be able to suggest one.

I do as well but it isn't just for price.

I have on occasion had to return DOA parts to Newegg, not once have they given me any grief and they have a very detailed RMA tracking systems, you get emails telling where there are in the RMA process so you know what is going on.

Excellent customer service.

 

[az240zz]

I am looking for 256mb card between $50 and $100. I went to amazon so the site would get a little income.

az240z