Was 2003 A Bad Draft?

[George O'Brien]

One of the things that has not been mentioned about the trading of the Knicks pick in the 2004 draft is that the 2003 draft has not really been all that great. Certainly LeBron, Carmelo, Bosh, Wade, and Hinrich has done extremely well. Ford has been a big part of the surprising Bucks. Kamen has emerged as decent Voskuhl type center and Josh Howard has been a major surprise.

But overall, the players picked in the first round have had more misses than hits. Some will undoubtedly turn into better than good players, but so far the number of misses is pretty high.

2003 NBA Draft

1 LeBron James
Cleveland Cavaliers - 20.4 ppg, 40.7%, 5.6 rpg, 5.8 assists (39.8 minutes)

2 Darko Milicic
Detroit Pistons - He has played a total of 58 minutes.

3 Carmelo Anthony
Denver Nuggets - 19.5 ppg, 42.3%, 6.2 rpg, 2.8 assists (36 minutes)

4 Chris Bosh
Toronto Raptors - 10.9 ppg, 46.3%, 7.2 rpg (32.1 minutes)

5 Dwyane Wade
Miami Heat - 16.7 ppg, 47.6% 4.3 rpg, 4.3 assists per game. (36.1 minutes)

6 Chris Kaman
Los Angeles Clippers - 6.4 ppg, 44.3%, 5.8 rpg

7 Kirk Hinrich
Chicago Bulls - 10.8 ppg, 39.6%, 3.1 rpg, 6.0 assists. (34.3 minutes)

8 T.J. Ford
Milwaukee Bucks - 7.1 ppg 37.8%, 3.4 rpg, 6.8 assists (27 minutes) Ford's impact is more how he runs the offense

9 Michael Sweetney
New York Knicks - 1.8 ppg, 33.3% shooting, 1.1 rpg (5.5 minutes)

10 Jarvis Hayes
Washington Wizards - 9.8 ppg, 40%, 4.2 rpg (30.1 minutes)

11 Mickael Pietrus
Golden State Warriors - 2.4 ppg, 35.3%, 1.1 rpg (7.2 minutes)

12 Nick Collison (Injured)
Seattle Sonics

13 Marcus Banks
Boston Celtics - 5.4 ppg, 36.6%, 1.8 rpg, 2.2 assists (17 minutes)

14 Luke Ridnour
Seattle Sonics - 5.6 ppg, 40.1%, 1.5 rpg, 2.2 assists (15.9 minutes)

15 Reece Gaines
Orlando Magic - 1.1 ppg, 20.5%, .9 rpg, .9 assists (8.1 minutes)

16 Troy Bell
Memphis Grizzlies - 2.5 ppg, 50% (total of 7 minutes for the season)

17 Zarko Cabarkapa (Injured)
Phoenix Suns

18 David West
New Orleans - 3.7 ppg, 46.1% 4.2 rpg (12 minutes)

19 Aleksandar Pavlovic
Utah Jazz - 4.7 ppg, 40.4%, 1.9 rpg, (13.5 minutes)

20 Dahntay Jones
Memphis Grizzlies - 2.1 ppg, 29.5% 1.1 rpg, .7 assists (7.9 minutes in only 15 games)

21 Boris Diaw
Atlanta Hawks - 3.9 ppg, 40.1%, 4.4 rpg (24.5 minutes)

22 Zoran Planinic
New Jersey Nets - 2.2 ppg, 40.6%, .9 rpg, .9 assists (7.6 minutes)

23 Travis Outlaw
Portland Trailblazers (he has played a total of 11 minutes)

24 Brian Cook
Los Angeles Lakers - 6.6 ppg, 45.3%, 4.2 rpg (18.8 minutes)

25 Carlos Delfino
Detroit Pistons (still in Europe)

26 Ndudi Ebi
Minnesota Timberwolves (he has played a total of 32 minutes)

27 Kendrick Perkins
Boston Celtics (he has played a total of 26 minutes)

28 Leandrinho Barbosa
Phoenix Suns - 6.7 ppg, 44.3%, 1.3 rpg, 2.1 assists (18.2 minutes)

29 Josh Howard
Dallas Mavericks - 8.6 ppg, 43.8%, 5.7 rpg, 1.4 assists (23.1 minutes)

 

[devilalum]

I bet if they did this over again Barbosa wouldn't be 28.

 

[scotsman13]

27.4mpg .450 fg% .077 3% .711ft% 3.00rebounds 6.4assist 2.01steals 2.20to's 7.2 ppg

or

18.2mpg .443Fg% .400 3% .778ft% 1.3rebounds 2.1assist 1.09steals 1.64to's 6.7ppg


oh the first one is was 22 (at the start of the season) and that took place in 1990 vs the second which is 20 (also at the start of the season) and taking place on 2004 when the defenses are even better.


p.s. this is gary payton vs. barbosa what do you think that barbosa is going to be like in 2 years? some how i think he will be better then what paytons stats were at 22.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by scotsman13
27.4mpg .450 fg% .077 3% .711ft% 3.00rebounds 6.4assist 2.01steals 2.20to's 7.2 ppg

or

18.2mpg .443Fg% .400 3% .778ft% 1.3rebounds 2.1assist 1.09steals 1.64to's 6.7ppg


oh the first one is was 22 (at the start of the season) and that took place in 1990 vs the second which is 20 (also at the start of the season) and taking place on 2004 when the defenses are even better.


p.s. this is gary payton vs. barbosa what do you think that barbosa is going to be like in 2 years? some how i think he will be better then what paytons stats were at 22.

I wouldn't count on it. There is a huge discrepancy in assists between those statistics you showed. I seriously doubt bar boasts that ever averages 6 assists per game.

George, that looks like a very good draft to me. I'm not sure what you are expecting from rookies these days. In fact I would say that they have contributed as much as would have been expected years ago when the players came into the NBA with more experience.

BTW Chris Kamen is better than Little Jake already.

Joe Mama

 

[Gee!]

George, you are out of your mind. When have you seen this many potential stars in a draft? Sure 84 was the best ever, but come on. LeBron, Carmello, Zarko, Barbosa, and lets not even get into the raw talent the Suns extracted from the Knicks (Vulalinic, Lampe).

 

[fordronken]

Originally posted by SameOleGee
George, you are out of your mind. When have you seen this many potential stars in a draft? Sure 84 was the best ever, but come on. LeBron, Carmello, Zarko, Barbosa, and lets not even get into the raw talent the Suns extracted from the Knicks (Vulalinic, Lampe).

Since when are Zarko, Barbosa and Lampe potetial stars(Vujanic wasn't in last year's draft)? Well, I guess there were about 56 potential stars in last year's draft.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by fordronken
Since when are Zarko, Barbosa and Lampe potetial stars(Vujanic wasn't in last year's draft)? Well, I guess there were about 56 potential stars in last year's draft.

What got me started on this was when I questioned the decision by Memphis to trade up to get Troy Bell and Dahntay Jones, only to realize that most of the players taken after them were not having great years. It was certainly interesting that the #28 & #29 picks are having so much better seasons than the guys that West wanted.

The top of the 2003 draft appears to be stronger than what we are looking at in 2004. The disturbing part of the middle of this year's draft is that they don't have as favorable a set of scounting reports as 2003, yet none of the middle picks have torn the league up.

Lampe was an aberation. Everyone knew he was a project, but he was widely expected to go to the Knicks at the #8 pick until the Knicks got scared off by Real Madrid's contract claims. Most teams drafting after the Knicks had not even bothered to scout him.

 

[Joe Mama]

All of the top 10 except Darko, a project with a boatload of potential, and Michael Sweetny (New York may have made a mistake) are starters or key contributors on their teams. Of the remaining 29 players in the first-round handful are making contributions to their teams this year. I really think that's about as much as can be expected nowadays with the players being younger and less experienced.

Joe Mama

 

[scotsman13]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
I wouldn't count on it. There is a huge discrepancy in assists between those statistics you showed. I seriously doubt bar boasts that ever averages 6 assists per game.

Joe Mama

joe remember most of the offense since bar has been starting is getting run through jj. also he started the year injured and doesnt speak english well. i think you will find in the future that barbosa will not disapoint you in his production. give this team a year or two and you will start to see some really good production out of barbosa and zarko.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by scotsman13
joe remember most of the offense since bar has been starting is getting run through jj. also he started the year injured and doesnt speak english well. i think you will find in the future that barbosa will not disapoint you in his production. give this team a year or two and you will start to see some really good production out of barbosa and zarko.

I remain hopeful. Barbosa played in a "beer league" in Brazil and did not have great coaching until he came to Phoenix. As it is, he is doing better than some of the other more experienced PG's in this year's draft. Ridnour has the advantage of playing behind a skilled PG in Brent Barry and does not have to play when he is overmatched.

This season has been pretty much a dead weight loss for Zarko other than learning English. I think he will become a solid player, but I'm not sure he will ever be good enough on defense to be a star.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by scotsman13
joe remember most of the offense since bar has been starting is getting run through jj. also he started the year injured and doesnt speak english well. i think you will find in the future that barbosa will not disapoint you in his production. give this team a year or two and you will start to see some really good production out of barbosa and zarko.

Oh I think Barbosa has been a pleasant surprise this season. I did not expect him to play as well as he has. I do think he can be a nice point guard in the NBA, and I'm not really sure this team needs their point guard to average 8-10 assists per game. That would be especially true if they did land Kobe Bryant.

Joe Mama

 

[slinslin]

Barbosa has been playing well for a rookie PG especially one who never played american style basketball ever before.

Rookie PGs often struggle.

If we got Kobe and/or TMac, Barbosa's most important attributes would be his spot up shooting, catch and shoot and defend other PGs.
All of which he has already shown that he can be great at.

With TMac and Kobe on the perimeter, Barbosa should be able to get open shots everytime.
You can't leave TMac or Kobe and the one who has the ball will always draw the double team so that leaves no defender for Barbosa unless they want to play Amare 1on1 in the paint.

 

[F-Dog]

Looks like a very strong draft to me, actually.

The only players whose stocks have taken hits so far are Sweetney and Reece Gaines, and Dahntay Jones shouldn't be there, of course.

Considering that there were drafts that had an 80% or higher bust rate, the first eight picks by themselves make this draft a good one, but it also looks like there was exceptional depth at the end of the first round.



If the 2004 draft is even close to this deep, we're going to really regret not having the Knicks pick. At this point, though, this year's draft doesn't look nearly as good, unless everybody who's worth taking actually declares.

 

[Yuma]

Zarko will be good, so will Barbosa, even if they are just second team guys. Also, we got the steal of the draft, supposedly, when we traded for Lampe. I am not sure if Vujanic was from this draft, but if he was, then essentially we got 4 draft picks this year. That's a hell of a draft if you ask me!

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by F-Dog
Looks like a very strong draft to me, actually.

The only players whose stocks have taken hits so far are Sweetney and Reece Gaines, and Dahntay Jones shouldn't be there, of course.

Considering that there were drafts that had an 80% or higher bust rate, the first eight picks by themselves make this draft a good one, but it also looks like there was exceptional depth at the end of the first round.

If the 2004 draft is even close to this deep, we're going to really regret not having the Knicks pick. At this point, though, this year's draft doesn't look nearly as good, unless everybody who's worth taking actually declares.

One measure of a draft is how many players get significant minutes (over 20). Several of the top players have and a few of the later players did, but most are not playing much and a good number that aren't playing at all.

I am very concerned about the 2004 draft in that it seems to be almost entirely projects other than Okafor.

 

[dyle_ph1]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
All of the top 10 except Darko, a project with a boatload of potential, and Michael Sweetny (New York may have made a mistake) are starters or key contributors on their teams. Of the remaining 29 players in the first-round handful are making contributions to their teams this year. I really think that's about as much as can be expected nowadays with the players being younger and less experienced.

Joe Mama

Living in CT and having seen a lot of Knicks games, Michael Sweetney is actually not a bad pickup for new york. He might have been a little high but he shows great agility and hands for somebody as big as him. he's not even in good shape and if he works out hard in the summer, might become a legitimate big man in the league. He surpised me on an number of instances with his agility since he flat out looks fat.

 

[Ryanwb]

FYI, the rule of thumb is 3 years before you can really evaluate the quality of a draft....this is true in almost any sport (except Curling)

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by dyle_ph1
Living in CT and having seen a lot of Knicks games, Michael Sweetney is actually not a bad pickup for new york. He might have been a little high but he shows great agility and hands for somebody as big as him. he's not even in good shape and if he works out hard in the summer, might become a legitimate big man in the league. He surpised me on an number of instances with his agility since he flat out looks fat.

I actually like Michael Sweetney. I watched him with Georgetown a bunch of times last year, and I was very impressed almost every time. I just don't understand why New York never gets these guys in a playing time. I mean earlier in the year they weren't winning games anyhow.

Joe Mama

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
I just don't understand why New York never gets these guys in a playing time. I mean earlier in the year they weren't winning games anyhow.

Joe Mama

Probably the same reason Macej Lampe doesn't get playing time...

 

[George O'Brien]

The Knicks picks were made before they got Mutombo. The Knicks front court got very crowed. None the less, Sweetney was expected to more of contributor.