Weird Stuff From Elsewhere

[George O'Brien]

The following team profile came from another board as an "official" team profile. insidehoops forum

It is pretty strange. As much as we tend to disagree on the value of various players, I'm not sure there are wild differences in their strengths and weaknesses - just the degree. It makes me wonder where some of this stuff comes from.

The Suns.

Shawn Marion
Strengths: terriffic defender. One of the top ten one on one defenders and also a geat team defender. Fantastic athletic ability, one of the quickest jumpers in the league. That means lots of shot blocking. Great rebounder, averages 10 a game for his career as a players barely tall enough for the SF spot. Surprisingly good shooter from a set postition despite his ass-ugly form. Very good dunker, not stylish but he can jam it when necessary. Good understanding of the game. Very good hands, good at poking da ball out. No ego. High percentage shooter (although this year was kinda weak). Completely unselfish. 85 percent from the line. My favorite player in the L. My desktop wall. (wcremix.com) Team Captain.

Weaknesses: cannot creat his own shot. Well, he can, but he doesn't. Not by any means a superstar because he doesn't want to take over a game. He averages over 20 points a game for his career, but his career high is 33 (I think). That could be called consistency or it can be called not wanting to take over. Had an off year this year. Terrible form, with a low release (but hey, it goes in.) Improving passing ability but sorta weak court vision. Hasn't reached his potential. Not capable of being a first option, best as a third or second on a stacked team. (offensively, anyway.) Not very clutch.

Shawn is not "One of the top ten one on one defenders". There is no mention of Marion's unwillingness to create contact when he drives the basket nor his overly predicatable path when driving the basket.

Leandro Barbosa
Strengths: Decent distributor. Good shooter. Fast. Tons of potential, had a good rookie year as a starter for much of it. Still has a lot to learn but is doing an ok job.

Weaknesses: for his athletic ability and speed, quite possibly the worst one on one defender in the league. it's not that he doesn't try (like your Nash or Williams) but he just can't comprehend a crossover. He balled in Brazil, where he was like the only player with good handles and flair. Hopefully, he'll improve there over time. Not good at directing an offense. Can't really create for others. Shoot-first.

Somehow he missed the fact that Barbosa is great at making steals and finishing on the break. He discribes him as a "good distributor, yet failed to note that he played mostly SG. Otherwise, I guess he almost go it.

Zarko Cabarkapa
Strengths: despite his rookie season, he's a very good shooter. Think of him as a poor man's Peja. he is a matchup nightmare at 6'11". He should evolve into instant offense off the bench for the suns in the future. Pretty good rebounder too. (mainly because of height) Overall, though, he's worth keeping, despite the god-awful weaknesses you'll read below.

Weaknesses: terrible passer, fifth in the L in turnovers. Horrible rookie season, but tons of potential. Not really any defense, especially because he's guarding players 4-5 inches shorter and faster than him. Has tons to learn.

Actually he is good passer who showed all the problems that come from not being in training camp and losing much of the season to an injury. The fact that he does not even mention the injury is strange in and of itself. Also, there is no mention of the fact that Zarko is very good at driving the basket.

Howard Eisley
Strengths: durable. can last a whole long time, never gets injured. Very reliable and consistent. A veteran. Very careful with the ball, doesn't turn it over much. Unfazable, isn't affected by pressure. Good FT shooter.

Weaknesses: old and paid way, way too much. Hopefully Charlotte takes him because with Nash on the verge of coming over and Vujanic probably coming over next year, we won't have room for him. God awful shooter. this year shot below 37 from the field and 32 from three. Not anything special at creating, just your call a play, pass the rock type of pg. Doesn't really go to the bucket. Nothing special period.

Eisley actually did go the basket and pretty well. His problem was his jump shot and the fact he kept shooting it. Eisley did not impress me with his defense either, which somehow this guy missed.

Casey Jacobsen
Strengths: I like the kid, but he's not anything special. What he is is a very accurate 3 point shooter, as well and field shooting and free throws. OK passer. Improving defender. Not disappointing, that's all you can expect from a 22 pick.

Weaknesses: all he does is shoot threes. at least his game is expanding. defense kinda sucks but he's gettin better. Sort of a steve-Kerr like player, who will come off the bench, give his all, shoot threes, but no impact on the game and horrible defense.

Casey is not horrible on defense, just not more than average. This guy misses the fact that Casey likes to take it to the basket rather than shoot mid range shot.

Joe Johnson
Strengths: the Celtics are just straight up stupid. They basically traded this guy and Casey Jacobsen for Rod Rogers and Delk. JJ is finially playing like the #10 pick, as evidenced by his all around decency. His main asset is his longetivity; he ranks first in the L in minutes played. Good rebounder and passer. Potential to be even better. Great for trading since all teams have an inflated idea of how good this kid is. Maybe trade bait to move up the the number three with Chicago and take Luol or hope Okafor or Howard fall.

Weaknesses: A below average shooter from all parts of the floor. only around 3 for 4 from the line. Turns the ball over a little too much. Not capable of being anything more than a legit third option or a poor second. Not clutch. Doesn't really do anything noteworthy, just a good player.

There is no reference to the difference between what he did in the first half of the season and the second when JJ's shooting became much better. Fails to mention that he was the team's #1 defender, ran the offense as a PG without prior training, and increased his assists to 4.4 per game.

I'm really irritated by pronouncements like "not capable of being anthing more than a legit third option or a poor second option". He may not become a take charge first option, but to say he is not "capable" strikes me as presumptious.

Maciej Lampe
Strengths: Isaih Thomas is such a moron. He gave this guy to us practically for free, we would've taken cap freedom in exchange for a has-been and an overrated loser point anyway, this guy was just a bonus. Projected to be a top five pick, but fell due to contract issues. Right now is better than Darko Milicic, the number 2 pick. Had a 17/7 game vs. Milwaukee. Not a stiff. Magic Lampe will have IT crying in a few years.

Weaknesses: Um, no D. None. He's getting better though. Hella young. No real skills yet. Think of him as a much more humble Darko with a little less potential. totally raw, had an A-T ratio of like 1/2 this year. He needs tons of time.

...and? There is no mention of his shooting. Anyone who actually watched him play rather than just read the stat sheets would know he is a great mid range shooter.

Amare Stoudamire
Strengths: I don't even know what to say about this guy. He just kicks ass. Washington picked both Juan Dixon and Jared Jefferies ahead of him.

No they didn't.

Rookie of the year out of HS. Second option on a team that Damn Near beat the Spurs last year in the first round. (Hit a clutch three against them.) A dunking machine, would make Shawn Kemp jealous. Has a tremendous work ethic. Very passionate on the court, plays like his life is on the line. Agressive defender. Has already learned how to keep himself out of foul trouble. Good on the break and in the post. Great rebounder. Shot over 70 percent from the line this season, and knows how to get there-he's sixth in free throws taken per game this season, meaning he can be used as a weapon to get the other team's help defender (read, Shaq) into foul trouble. Consistent. The Post-oriended version of what Kwame should have been.

Weaknesses: bad passer. Turns the ball over a lot and can't really set up his teammates. No jumper at all, whatsoever. His range his rookie season was a dunk, and this season it was about ten feet. Hopefully next season if he expands to around 15-18, and he'll be set. Don't want him to turn into a jump shooter though. Still raw, his only post move is Dunking, although he definitely has the potential to have very, very good post moves with his body coordination, ferocity, speed and muscle.

Where to start: he improved dramatically as a passer late in the season. He did develop a jumper and used it. He does do more than just dunk on the inside.

This guy mentions that Amare is an "aggressive defender", without noting that defense is still is weakest are.

Jake Voskuhl
Stengths: good defender. tough. Sort of a Dudley-like player, whose only in the L because he's tall and strong both mentally and physically. OK at containing other Centers.

Who is this guy describing? Jake gets pushed around in the low block all the time and is not able to contain other centers without help. His strength is at doing double teams and in a scramble defense. Dudley like? No way.

Weaknesses: nothing on offense, no real skill whatsoever. AT least he's a decent FT shooter. Range is a dunk, but at least he puts all gimmie shots in. I like this guy as a 2nd or third string center, he should not be starting, especially in the West.

Jake is good pick and roll center. He showed he CAN hit that jumper from the top of the key. I agree he is a backup type center, but this guy appears to have Jake mixed up with some other guy.

Jahidi White
Strengths: OK defender, nice and fat; the kind of guy who can contain shaq more than all these stick figures in the League nowadays like Camby. I actually like him but no way in hell is he worth six mil a year. 2nd string worthy provided he's backing up someone like Mehmet Okur (that could very well be the Suns center rotation next year). Good for the 43rd overall, bad for 6 mil a yr. Can actually be dominant at times (got 16 rebounds in a half against san antonio (yeah, over TD and DR) in 2002 I believe).

Weaknesses: can't do much on offense. slow as hell. bad passer. Inconsistent rebounder. Can't really block shots either. Really, he's just a big body to stick on another big body and hope for the best. Hope charlotte takes him. Offer charlotte the seventh pick, him, and JJ to move up to number four. Or include Lampe instead of #7. All he is is a bad salary until the bobcats do their little waive tricka and take his salary permanantly off the cap.

We are pretty sure White is going without any such nonsense. Somehow this guy managed to talk about White without mentioning that he may be one of the strongest men in the NBA.

My conclusion? This guy has not watched many if any actual games. He misses too many key points and at least a third of what he says is plain wrong. Also, he repeats the rumors about Nash and Okur without any sense of how bad those acquisitions would be for the Suns.

Kind of wonder where this guy lives.

 

[hcsilla]

Was that "analysis" really worth such a long post?

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Was that "analysis" really worth such a long post?

Was it equally worth responding like an cornholio?

 

[hcsilla]

I meant the "analysis" of insidehoops.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Anyway on to George's post. This guy really seems to typify the opinion of non Suns fans on our players.

If you ask a non Suns fan about Marion, they will tell you he is a good defender and a slasher...

Most people know little about Barbosa outside of the fact that he likes to score.

Same with a lot of our other young players. I really think that Suns fans really over analyze our players and in general are for more critical of them than warranted.

I don't spend a lot of time looking at other team's message boards so I don't know if that is a Suns fan phenomon or something that happens everywhere.

 

[George O'Brien]

Anyway on to George's post. This guy really seems to typify the opinion of non Suns fans on our players.

If you ask a non Suns fan about Marion, they will tell you he is a good defender and a slasher...

Most people know little about Barbosa outside of the fact that he likes to score.

Same with a lot of our other young players. I really think that Suns fans really over analyze our players and in general are for more critical of them than warranted.

I don't spend a lot of time looking at other team's message boards so I don't know if that is a Suns fan phenomon or something that happens everywhere.

I can't say because I don't get to watch most other teams except when they play the Suns. That means I see particular matchup issues that may not be true the rest of the time those teams play.

 

[Errntknght]

The guy seems to be a Suns fan, at least while he was writing the article because he used the terms 'us' and 'we' in referring to the team a few times.

I think George got the story a lot more correct than the article but I disagree even with him on several points. For example he said Jake CAN hit from the top of the key... I've never seen Jake even attempt a shot from there, much less make one. Wide open at the FT line he's a mild threat. (I do think Jake has a decent stroke and might eventually be close to Scotty Williams as a shooter.)

It shouldn't come as a surprise that there are significant disagreements... we get pretty sharp altercations over a particular game that various people just watched.

 

[George O'Brien]

The guy seems to be a Suns fan, at least while he was writing the article because he used the terms 'us' and 'we' in referring to the team a few times.

I think George got the story a lot more correct than the article but I disagree even with him on several points. For example he said Jake CAN hit from the top of the key... I've never seen Jake even attempt a shot from there, much less make one. Wide open at the FT line he's a mild threat. (I do think Jake has a decent stroke and might eventually be close to Scotty Williams as a shooter.)

You're right, I said it wrong. He is "OK" with his mid range shot although he did not use it much.

It shouldn't come as a surprise that there are significant disagreements... we get pretty sharp altercations over a particular game that various people just watched.

I'm sure there are, but I find most disagreements are questions of "upside" (or not) and consistency rather than complete disagreements about the overall strengths and weaknesses of players. Maybe it is because we actually pay attention to what the other people say (well sometimes).

We don't go around describing a Voskuhl as a defensive wizzard.

 

[Joe Mama]

At the risk of sounding overly negative I'm going to disagree that Jake Voskuhl is "OK" with his jump shot. He had nice form, but I'll bet he did not make 20% of them. If he can improve over the summer with that shot he will be much more valuable to the team.

Joe

 

[George O'Brien]

Unless the Suns sign Dampier (a long shot at best), I think a move toward a Kings style high post offense makes the most sense. If teams are forced to pull their center out from under the basket, it will make it much easier for Amare, Shawn, and JJ to get to the hole.

I tend to dump on Jake, but I think he could do an adequate job in that role as a backup center. He is a hard worker and should keep improving on his ball handling.