What a difference a year makes

elindholm

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It has all happened so fast.

Compare the state of the organization to where it was a year ago. At the trading deadline last year, the Suns were an up-and-coming team, led by a re-energized star point guard and a high-school rookie sensation, on their way to grabbing a playoff spot and giving the eventual champion Spurs a run for their money.

And now? That team is but a distant memory. Three of the core players from last year's roster (Marbury, Hardaway, and Outlaw) are gone, replaced by a handful of prospects who have revealed little or nothing on the court. Furthermore, the Suns are taking the novel approach of trying to rebuild by reducing the number of draft picks they hold. The Suns have replaced some terrible contracts with ones that are merely bad. But how the financial savings will translate into upgrading the team is anything but clear.

Across the major sports, a dismantling of this severity is rare. It usually points to an organization in severe financial distress, suffering from lofty aspirations which are undermined by fan apathy. Occasionally a team manages to rise from its own ashes, as did the baseball Marlins in the wake of their post-championship fire sale. But those cases are exceptional. Most franchises who pull the plug on a living patient aren't around to experience the rewards of the afterlife.

Throughout their history, the Suns have been one of the NBA's most successful franchises, when measured by any yardstick other than titles won. Sadly, however, it appears that those days are over. Years from now, I think we will look back on this season as the end of what has been a pretty good era.

It's been fun, everyone! What do we do now?
 

KingLouieLouie

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Was last year just an aberration?

I know it's the easy way out, but it's best to take an "await and see" approach..... If the Suns dont manage to acquire a top FA this upcoming off-season (call me Master of Obvious here), then the Suns have ultimately failed........
 

newfan101

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Originally posted by elindholm
It has all happened so fast.

Compare the state of the organization to where it was a year ago. At the trading deadline last year, the Suns were an up-and-coming team, led by a re-energized star point guard and a high-school rookie sensation, on their way to grabbing a playoff spot and giving the eventual champion Spurs a run for their money.

And now? That team is but a distant memory. Three of the core players from last year's roster (Marbury, Hardaway, and Outlaw) are gone, replaced by a handful of prospects who have revealed little or nothing on the court. Furthermore, the Suns are taking the novel approach of trying to rebuild by reducing the number of draft picks they hold. The Suns have replaced some terrible contracts with ones that are merely bad. But how the financial savings will translate into upgrading the team is anything but clear.

Across the major sports, a dismantling of this severity is rare. It usually points to an organization in severe financial distress, suffering from lofty aspirations which are undermined by fan apathy. Occasionally a team manages to rise from its own ashes, as did the baseball Marlins in the wake of their post-championship fire sale. But those cases are exceptional. Most franchises who pull the plug on a living patient aren't around to experience the rewards of the afterlife.

Throughout their history, the Suns have been one of the NBA's most successful franchises, when measured by any yardstick other than titles won. Sadly, however, it appears that those days are over. Years from now, I think we will look back on this season as the end of what has been a pretty good era.

It's been fun, everyone! What do we do now?

You know, I've always stood by the C's, but you hit the nail on the head Eric. You're recent thread complaining about the Marbury trade looks pretty dead on now. I disagreed with you then, thinking that we needed to see what they would do with the picks and cap space before passing judgement. Well, the picks were used to get under the luxury tax. And the negative publicity of gutting a team to save money pretty much kills any chance of signing anyone significant. I'll admit right now that I was wrong.

I also appreciate what the C's have done in the past, particularly in bringing us a consistant winner in the Suns and a baseball championship. Sadly, I agree with you Eric. Those days are over.
 
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elindholm

elindholm

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And the negative publicity of gutting a team to save money pretty much kills any chance of signing anyone significant.

I think that's a big problem. If the money is equal, most franchises look more appealing right now than the Suns do. So they'll have to outbid everyone else, which most likely means overpaying for marginal talent.

I'll admit right now that I was wrong.

I hope I'll get to do the same in another few months....
 

Chaz

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Originally posted by KingLouieLouie

If the Suns dont manage to acquire a top FA this upcoming off-season (call me Master of Obvious here), then the Suns have ultimately failed........


What are you talking about?

Even if the Suns sign Kobe this offseason they are still not one of the top 5 teams in the West.

So we sign Kobe so we can be the 6th or 7th seed in the playoffs?

Isn't that what we were looking at before we traded Marbury? Or Kidd for that matter?

The Suns need time to develop Amare and JJ, and build a bench. Only then will they have a real shot of competing in the West.
 

slinslin

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Except that Kobe is much better than Stephon and we would be in a situation where we should be able to use the MLE at least once.
 

Chaz

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Originally posted by slinslin
Except that Kobe is much better than Stephon and we would be in a situation where we should be able to use the MLE at least once.

How could we sign Kobe and use the MLE if they are this worried about the luxary tax?
 

slinslin

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Because the luxury tax is a lot higher than the cap limit.

We could sign Kobe this season and use a MLE next season and be only the MLE money over the cap.

Amare will cost additional money with his extension but Eisley should be gone by then.
 

Chaplin

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Originally posted by SirChaz
How could we sign Kobe and use the MLE if they are this worried about the luxary tax?

Because after this year the luxury tax will likely be abolished.
 

George O'Brien

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There is no "pretty" way to look at this disaster. I kept hoping there was another shoe to drop like White going to Toronto (supposedly pending league approval). But when Colangelo did not mention it, then apparently it was just a rumor.

Overall, the Suns are not going to be vastly different either way. Except for Kobe, there was no other FA deal that they could not already afford. Assuming the Suns are in effect trading the two Knicks picks in this deal, the Marbury trade is:

Marbury
Hardaway
Trybansky

Dice
Eisley
Lampe
Vujanic
About $3 million above mid cap in space

The trade looks much better if Dice is healthy and re-signs with the Suns. It looks great if Lampe and Vujanic prove to be stars. Getting an FA is not necessary for that deal to work, but it certainly helps.
 

KingLouieLouie

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Originally posted by SirChaz
What are you talking about?

Even if the Suns sign Kobe this offseason they are still not one of the top 5 teams in the West.

So we sign Kobe so we can be the 6th or 7th seed in the playoffs?

Isn't that what we were looking at before we traded Marbury? Or Kidd for that matter?

The Suns need time to develop Amare and JJ, and build a bench. Only then will they have a real shot of competing in the West.

I must admit that what I typed didnt have any merit whatsoever...

I guess I long with the rest of you are beyond frustrated what the Suns have become that it has diluted all sense of logic that I have regarding this team....

You would think that they would give Lampe a lot of playing time to develop his skills and perhaps prove that he might be a capable center, but instead they put him on the IR in favor of White or Harvey who both more than likely will be gone after the season.....

They must acquire Kobe to justify as to why they made all these "cost cutting trades" is what I meant to convey in my last post, not that they'll actually contend.... Just too many hypotheticals now to really figure out what direction this team is headed in and especially for them to contend.....

I do agree on them in the regards that they don't need any additional younger/unproven players, so sacrificing a draft choice shouldnt really affect them....

They'll probably have 6 roster spots to fill after this season is over...Vujanic more than likely occupies the other one, along with their own draft choice (better be a shot-blocking/rebounding center), and I hope an elite FA like Kobe and perhaps one mid-tier player...... I just cant rationalize anything about the Suns now, so please ignore my incoherent babbling.... :confused:
 

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Originally posted by slinslin
Except that Kobe is much better than Stephon and we would be in a situation where we should be able to use the MLE at least once.

We would also have at least a top-five draft pick from this summer's draft along with Vujanic and Lampe.

Joe Mama
 

slinslin

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Too bad Danny Ainge is such a moron.

He nixed the trade with the Suns which would have gotten him Malik Rose and the Knicks pick and instead took Atkins and Detroits pick instead.

We would have gotten the pick back from San Antonio and trade White and the Knicks pick for expiring contracts!
 

Joe Mama

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Originally posted by slinslin
Too bad Danny Ainge is such a moron.

He nixed the trade with the Suns which would have gotten him Malik Rose and the Knicks pick and instead took Atkins and Detroits pick instead.

We would have gotten the pick back from San Antonio and trade White and the Knicks pick for expiring contracts!

Have you seen Rose's contract? I'm not sure why Rose has dropped off so much this season, but over his career he's been a nice contributor off the bench. After this season he will be owed 4 years for a total of $25 million +. That's a lot to pay an undersized sixth man.

Joe Mama
 

Joe Mama

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Originally posted by slinslin
Better than any big man than the Celtics have for sure.

Yes, but that's stupid reasoning.

"He's better than anything we have, so we might as well except his horrible contract for a #17-20 draft pick in one now looks like a weak draft class."

That would have been far worse than what they actually did do today.

Joe Mama
 

ASUCHRIS

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Originally posted by elindholm
It has all happened so fast.

Compare the state of the organization to where it was a year ago. At the trading deadline last year, the Suns were an up-and-coming team, led by a re-energized star point guard and a high-school rookie sensation, on their way to grabbing a playoff spot and giving the eventual champion Spurs a run for their money.

And now? That team is but a distant memory. Three of the core players from last year's roster (Marbury, Hardaway, and Outlaw) are gone, replaced by a handful of prospects who have revealed little or nothing on the court. Furthermore, the Suns are taking the novel approach of trying to rebuild by reducing the number of draft picks they hold. The Suns have replaced some terrible contracts with ones that are merely bad. But how the financial savings will translate into upgrading the team is anything but clear.

Across the major sports, a dismantling of this severity is rare. It usually points to an organization in severe financial distress, suffering from lofty aspirations which are undermined by fan apathy. Occasionally a team manages to rise from its own ashes, as did the baseball Marlins in the wake of their post-championship fire sale. But those cases are exceptional. Most franchises who pull the plug on a living patient aren't around to experience the rewards of the afterlife.

Throughout their history, the Suns have been one of the NBA's most successful franchises, when measured by any yardstick other than titles won. Sadly, however, it appears that those days are over. Years from now, I think we will look back on this season as the end of what has been a pretty good era.

It's been fun, everyone! What do we do now?

Welcome to the life of a small market fan. I don't know how people can stand by all the years when their teams have no chance to compete. At least in the NFL, with the parity of the league, people can have the illusion that their team can succeed. Oh, what I would give for a billionaire owner....:rolleyes:
 

slinslin

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Atkins also has a horrible contract and isn't even better than Mike James who they traded and Marcus Banks who is their future PG.


Would you rather have Rose, James and a 10-17 pick or Atkins and a 22-27 pick?

I take Rose especially when I need big guys and play in the East.
 

Evil Ash

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Originally posted by slinslin
Too bad Danny Ainge is such a moron.

He nixed the trade with the Suns which would have gotten him Malik Rose and the Knicks pick and instead took Atkins and Detroits pick instead.

We would have gotten the pick back from San Antonio and trade White and the Knicks pick for expiring contracts!

Actually supposedley it was the Suns who nixed the deal because Ainge wanted OUR pick in return.

If thats true ... then I'm very thankful it didn't happen.

The trade that did occur today on the other hand ... :(
 

Chaplin

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Does anyone else know the rule about signing players? A lot of us on this board talk about trying to sign players within the cap limit, but the most issues we have about spending is around the luxury tax which is a lot higher than the cap.

Can we go over the cap when signing? And if so, can we go over the cap but not exceed the luxury tax limit? I'm guessing the answer is no to both questions.
 
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elindholm

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Can we go over the cap when signing?

Not without using the MLE, which you don't get until you're over the cap. So somehow, you have to use your cap space while staying under the line, then find a different way to get over the line, and then you can use your MLE.

If the Suns got a trade exception from their deal today (and they should have), then they could use that to take on additional salary in a trade. The sequence of events could be:

1. Sign free agents while required to stay under the cap line.
2. Make a trade for higher salaries, using the exception to get over the cap line.
3. Use the MLE, which would still put the Suns under the luxury tax limit, if the luxury tax still even exists.

I'd imagine there are other scenarios, but that's one way to do it.
 

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