What Happens to the Bobcats Castoffs?

[George O'Brien]

My understanding is that the Bobcats have to draft 14 players, even if they don't want them. At that point Charlotte is obligated to pay the rest of their contracts even if they are cut. If they are cut, the Bobcats do not have to include them for cap purposes, which is different than when other teams cut players.

As a rule, once a player has been cut, he is allowed to sign a contract with another team even though he is still being paid by his former team. This is why Mutombo is still on the Sixer's cap list while playing (sort of) with the Knicks.

Almost all of our attention has been focused on unloading players onto the Bobcats, but the most interesting aspect may be the chance to sign some previously very high priced players at market prices.

It has been widely reported that the Bobcats will be allowed to trade players, but that doesn't do them much good since most teams lack the cap space to take them. But after the draft is over, the Bobcats could make an agreement with the drafted players to work out their own deals which would involve paying the Bobcats to make the players free agents.

Let's say the Bobcats took Dale Davis of the Blazers. He has one more year on his contract at $9 million. Even with the $3 million bribe from the Blazers, he costs them $6 million and they probably won't give a first round pick.

However, let's say the Suns made a deal which effectively paid the Bobcats $6+ million if they cut Davis. The Suns could then sign Davis to a contract starting at $3 million. The Bobcats get out of their financial obligation and the Suns get a $9 million player for only $3 in cap hit and Davis gets $12 million rather than $9 million. BTW, Portland gets rid of $9 million on a salary structure that is well above the line for luxury tax.

I haven't figured out is this is really brilliant or really stupid, but obviously I have too much time on my hands.

 

[cly2tw]

George,

I guess you never read my posts.

I suggested a couple of times that we could deal with Bobcats the following way.
They pick White in the expansion. We give them 3 mil cash. They waive him. We sign him for say 2.9 mil one year. The cats don't lose money. We get 3 mil additional cap. Variations with the Cleveland's pick, or even with Eisley, are straightforward.

 

[Errntknght]

My understanding of the mechanism that the Bobcats must use to avoid a cap hit by a player they drafted and don't want to keep on their roster is the normal waiver process. If this is true, there is little scope for special deals.
If my memory is correct, for the first 48 hours after a player is waived, any team may claim the player in which case they have to pay his full salary. After that, he said to have cleared waivers, and teams may then negotiate a deal with the player - with a very low minimum salary required by the league. The team that waived the player has to make up the difference between what the new deal calls for and his old salary. I think there is one other stipulation - if more than one team wants to make a claim in the first 48 hours then the team with the worst record is given their claim.

There may be one new element that comes into play - I suggested a couple of months ago the Suns make a deal with the Bobcats and White, assuming White would clear waivers, just like clytw2 is suggesting, and I think someone quoted a rule then that said the team that left a player unprotected in the expansion draft could not subsequently pick him up if and when the Bobcats waived him.

 

[sunsfn]

If my memory is correct, for the first 48 hours after a player is waived, any team may claim the player in which case they have to pay his full salary. After that, he said to have cleared waivers, and teams may then negotiate a deal with the player - with a very low minimum salary required by the league. The team that waived the player has to make up the difference between what the new deal calls for and his old salary.

I thought the team that waives the player was responsible for the total salary, when the player clears waivers.
The new team that signs him negotiates with the player for ?? $$, and the player makes both salaries.

I am not sure this applies to the new expansion team though?

 

[KloD]

It was my understanding that whoever the Bobcat's pick and waive, they have to pay the salary, but it will not count against their cap.

 

[George O'Brien]

I've always assumed that once the guy clears waivers he is a free agent, but gets his guarantee no matter what. I don't think there is an offset (reduce the amount the Bobcats would pay) because there would be no incentive to sign for more than than the minimum if the money is the same.

What I am looking at is more complicated. Let's say the Bobcats take Dale Davis and give him the right to negotiate his own deal with the Suns. Dale agrees to play for the Suns once he is waived for say $3 million a year. The Suns agree to buy a future second round pick for $6 million from the Bobcats once Davis clears. If some team takes Davis during the 48 hours, then the Bobcats are off the hook anyway. But if he clears waivers, the Suns sign Davis and then send the Bobcats the money so that they are whole or even make a few bucks.

I use Davis's name because he is likely to be the best center made available to the Bobcats and the Oregonian is reporting that the Blazers are willing to pay the $3 million to move him.

 

[elindholm]

The thing is, the Hornets' cap number is so low that they're unlikely to get under it anyway, even if they do waive one or two of the players they drafted. If their 14 picks have average salaries of $3 million (which is low, especially if you're talking about White, who is double that, as a potential pick), that's already $42 million. Even if they knock $12 million off through waivers, they still don't have any free-agency money to play with.

So my guess is that the bribe-and-cut ploy probably isn't going to pan out, except maybe for a huge useless contract like Grant Hill. In my opinion, that makes the Hornets more likely to go with the players they draft, which means that the players they draft must at least have some value on the court.

I'm really not sure White qualifies. I agree that he has a role to play on the Suns -- basically 15 minutes every second or third game -- but is he going to be able to log major minutes with any team? I doubt it.

 

[George O'Brien]

The thing is, the Hornets' cap number is so low that they're unlikely to get under it anyway, even if they do waive one or two of the players they drafted. If their 14 picks have average salaries of $3 million (which is low, especially if you're talking about White, who is double that, as a potential pick), that's already $42 million. Even if they knock $12 million off through waivers, they still don't have any free-agency money to play with.

So my guess is that the bribe-and-cut ploy probably isn't going to pan out, except maybe for a huge useless contract like Grant Hill. In my opinion, that makes the Hornets more likely to go with the players they draft, which means that the players they draft must at least have some value on the court.

I'm really not sure White qualifies. I agree that he has a role to play on the Suns -- basically 15 minutes every second or third game -- but is he going to be able to log major minutes with any team? I doubt it.

I know I've asked this before, but I am still unclear. Does White and $3 million count as $5.8 million on the cap or $2.8 million? I'm not asking about logic, because nothing about the Bobcats situation is logical (for example, they are FORCED to take 14 players).

Bickerstaff has said repeatedly that he would like to be able to go into the free agent market. I can't see how that is conceivably possible if the bribes don't reduce the cap hit.

 

[elindholm]

Does White and $3 million count as $5.8 million on the cap or $2.8 million?

I don't think we've received a definitive answer, but I am persuaded by my own earlier analysis that most likely it counts as $5.8 million.

Edit: I just thought of another way to think of this. The $3 million has to count for someone's cap. If it counts against the Suns', then what is the point for them? They wouldn't be getting White's salary off; they'd be getting off only $2.8 million of it.

So all of this speculation presupposes that the buyout figure won't count against the Suns. White's salary doesn't just materialize out of thin air -- someone has to actually pay it. And if that team is Charlotte, then Charlotte gets him on their cap figure.

 

[sunsfn]

Here is what I believe..........

If Charlotte takes White from the suns and the suns give them $3 mil.,
The $3 mil is like a business expense for doing business. (for the suns)

If charlotte cuts white it does not count against the cap and it will cost them 2.8 mil to pay him. (plus the 3 mil from the suns)

If someone picks him up in the waiver time, that team pays him the 5.8 mil.
(Charlotte just made 3 mil) (Charlotte could pay some or all of the 3 mil to the new team to encourage them to take him) (I think)

If someone picks him up after the waiver time, Charlotte pays him 2.8 mil.
(they pay him 5.8 mil., but 3 mil comes from the suns)

White is probably one of the cheaper "have to take" of the 14 picks, that some teams maybe will give Charlotte something for him.

Charlotte has to take 14 players and they obviously will take the 14 where it will cost them the least to do. So all teams will be trying to do a deal with them. I think it comes down to the player then. Is he good enough where another team will want him if they take him in the expansion draft, or can they like him well enough to keep him.

Some teams will probably pay Charlotte 3 mil and give them a draft pick.

 

[Joe Mama]

The Charlotte bobcats are not going to have any trouble finding 14 players to take in the expansion draft that will not cost them $2.8 million. They are going to get well compensated for taking anyone that cost them that much money just to dump.

I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no chance they are going to take Jahidi White without some sort of compensation unless perhaps it is part of some sort of trade with a third team (highly unlikely).

Joe Mama

 

[SweetD]

I thought that a team that traded to the Bobcats could not resign the player if they were cut???

yep here we go...
. Post-Expansion Draft Transactions

• A team will not be permitted to reacquire a player that it loses in the Expansion Draft prior to the expiration of one year from the date of the Expansion Draft, unless the player is waived and not claimed by any other team.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I thought that a team that traded to the Bobcats could not resign the player if they were cut???

They cannot reaquire their player for 1 year after the draft.

Unless the player is waived, and not picked up off of waivers. At that point any team may resign him.


So basically, you can't trade for him, or try and claim him off of waivers for a year. But if he is a FA again, then its fair game.

 

[Chaplin]

I'm sorry, but financially you guys might be right on, but you are all missing one important factor: Actual basketball games.

Sure, the Bobcats will want to take players with cheap contracts, and sure, nobody will expect them to be a good team. But a new expansion team in a city that previously failed the last team needs to have incentive for fans to buy tickets, which is what it's all about anyway. If the Bobcats try to pick 14 guys that all make under 2 million dollars, who will want to see that? They won't even be close to competitive. Shouldn't that be a factor in who they pick as well?

 

[hcsilla]

Shouldn't that be a factor in who they pick as well?

It should. That's why they will pick Stackhouse, IMO.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I thought that a team that traded to the Bobcats could not resign the player if they were cut???

yep here we go...
. Post-Expansion Draft Transactions

• A team will not be permitted to reacquire a player that it loses in the Expansion Draft prior to the expiration of one year from the date of the Expansion Draft, unless the player is waived and not claimed by any other team.

So, according to that rule, George's scenario indeed does work.

 

[George O'Brien]

It should. That's why they will pick Stackhouse, IMO.

I'm guessing they could have a playoff team if they ignored the salary cap. The problem with most of the contracts is their length. Getting locked into a bunch of long term contracts creates the problem the Knicks have.

 

[hcsilla]

Someone has to play even in Charlotte.

If healthy Stackhpouse has a decent contract, plus he is a hometown-hero.

I highly doubt that the starting lineup of Juan Dixon/Tony Delk/ Josh Childress/Melvin Ely/Chris Andersen would fetch a lot of crowd.

 

[George O'Brien]

Someone has to play even in Charlotte.

If healthy Stackhpouse has a decent contract, plus he is a hometown-hero.

I highly doubt that the starting lineup of Juan Dixon/Tony Delk/ Josh Childress/Melvin Ely/Chris Andersen would fetch a lot of crowd.

Come on, Livingston will be their PG.

 

[playstation]

keep in mind, it works the other way too.

charlotte can receive $3m and a draft pick from memphis, lets say, in order for the bobcats NOT to draft one of their players

 

[George O'Brien]

keep in mind, it works the other way too.

charlotte can receive $3m and a draft pick from memphis, lets say, in order for the bobcats NOT to draft one of their players

Memphis is more likely to bribe the Bobcats to take one player rather than the others.