What hurt more the kiss death? or the Paxson three?

[Ronin]

I'm going to go with the wide open Paxson three pointer? I cried when Paxson made that shot, because I felt the Phoenix Suns where going to win that game and force a game 7.

 

[Mulli]

the kiss death? Gene Simmons died?!?

 

[HooverDam]

Hard to say with the Paxson 3 the Suns were literally closer, they could've had a game 7 at home. With the kiss of death, if the Suns could've gotten by Houston either of those years they would've won the title most likely.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Personally I think the hip check/player response/league decision hurt the most.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

Personally I think the hip check/player response/league decision hurt the most.

Steve

This is what I think about the most... the Horry hip check. It was such a dirty play and the Suns lost Amare and Diaw for a critical game five.

On the Paxson shot, it was a legitimate play.

 

[elindholm]

What hurt more the kiss death? or the Paxson three?

It had been the Paxson three from me, but your poor grammar just overtook it.

 

[Lefty]

It had been the Paxson three from me, but your poor grammar just overtook it.

That was all on Danny Ainge.

 

[elindholm]

That was all on Danny Ainge.

Heh, I think.

 

[Cheesebeef]

That was all on Danny Ainge.

actually it was all on Barkley. He went for the steal at the top of the key right at the beginning of the play which gave Pippen a clear lane to drive down, forcing the entire defense to scramble/collapse the lane. Pippen dumped it Grant, Grant swung it Paxson. End of story. All of it began because chuck wanted to play hero instead of just trying to stay in front of pippen.

That said, the kiss of death was beyond painful because a) I hated the Rockets after we blew the series the previous year and b) I LOATHED Mario Elie. That play was another complete WTF ARE WE DOING on defense. We started the play by trying to trap Kenny Smith with two guys just before mid-court...WHY!?!?! Again, that play led to the rest of the team playing 4 on 3, leaving Elie wide open. Making matters worse, KJ was just a beast in that game, scoring like 45 points and 21/21 from the line...and of course missed number 22 to give us the lead before the Ellie shot. But while that one stung, Barkley was already a mess physically and had completely junked up his knee in Game 6 of that series. If anyone remembers, he was seriously laboring in Game 7 and even if we won, without a superstar Chuck, we probably wouldn't have gotten past San Antonio.

thus, it's Paxson for 3 without a doubt for me. the fact that I had tickets to Game 7 only makes me double down there.

 

[Mulli]

Ainge said it was on him. He went to double Horace Grant, even though he knew before the play he had to stay on Pax.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Ainge said it was on him. He went to double Horace Grant, even though he knew before the play he had to stay on Pax.

But this isn't what happened. You can't "double" someone who's not being guarded by anyone. Reality is Grant was WIDE OPEN because the defense collapsed into the lane when Pippen drove right past Barkley.

 

[Mulli]

But this isn't what happened. You can't "double" someone who's not being guarded by anyone. Reality is Grant was WIDE OPEN because the defense collapsed into the lane when Pippen drove right past Barkley.

Talk to Ainge. He said it. I would think he would know.

 

[BC867]

For me, it was the 1978-79 Suns who lost the Western Conference semi-finals to the Seattle Supersonics.

It was believed by experts that whichever Western team advanced to the finals would be favored over the Eastern Conference champion Washington Bullets. And, sure enough, the Sonics beat the Bullets for the NBA Championship.

As I have posted in the past, when our lightweight 212 lb. Center Alvan Adams went down with an injury, instead of going strong, Coach John MacLeod hopscotched our 215 lb. backup Small Forward Joel Kramer into the starting Center spot.

A backup Small Forward to starting Center? That is not even small ball. That is wuss ball. Kramer played his heart out, but (covering two positions up) didn't stand a chance.

You may feel otherwise, but in my long history as a Suns fan, that hurt the most. Because our obsessive Coach didn't even give the team a chance to compete.

Whichever team came out of the West was favored to win it all.

 

[AzStevenCal]

For me, it was the 1978-79 Suns who lost the Western Conference semi-finals to the Seattle Supersonics.

It was believed by experts that whichever Western team advanced to the finals would be favored over the Eastern Conference champion Washington Bullets. And, sure enough, the Sonics beat the Bullets for the NBA Championship.

As I have posted in the past, when our lightweight 212 lb. Center Alvan Adams went down with an injury, instead of going strong, Coach John MacLeod hopscotched our 215 lb. backup Small Forward Joel Kramer into the starting Center spot.

A backup Small Forward to starting Center? That is not even small ball. That is wuss ball. Kramer played his heart out, but (covering two positions up) didn't stand a chance.

You may feel otherwise, but in my long history as a Suns fan, that hurt the most. Because our obsessive Coach didn't even give the team a chance to compete.

Whichever team came out of the West was favored to win it all.

I'm not saying he didn't but I really don't remember him ever playing small forward for us. Walter Davis was our starting small forward that season and Alvin Scott was his backup. I could be mistaken but I seem to remember Joel as a center in college that played some power forward and center for us. He was definitely too small to play center but we really didn't have much of a choice late in the playoffs. Heard was playing injured and his minutes were limited. I know we had Bayard and used him a little but he was simply horrible out there.

So who would you have put at center to solve the problem? Our 6'6 power forward Truck Robinson? He was already in play as a forward and he had his hands full guarding Lonnie Shelton. Plus, there's no way he could have replicated AA's responsibility in our offense. At least Kramer could pass the ball and knew how to play up top with his back to the basket. I just think we lost arguably our best player at the worst possible time. It happens.

Steve

 

[BC867]

I'm not saying he didn't but I really don't remember him ever playing small forward for us. Walter Davis was our starting small forward that season and Alvin Scott was his backup. I could be mistaken but I seem to remember Joel as a center in college that played some power forward and center for us. He was definitely too small to play center but we really didn't have much of a choice late in the playoffs.

You're right, Steve. Joel Kramer is listed as C and PF for his five years with the Suns/in the NBA. Our backup post player at 6'7"-203 !?!?!?! That is even worse.

It is still my choice for "what hurt more". I could expand it to . . . the Jerry Colangelo legacy of not knowing (or making a priority) how to be strong in the post-season.

Put on a good show at home. Don't embarrass yourself on the road. Make an appearance in the playoffs.

Ironically, that Suns legacy lives on to this day. That hurts a lot more! Am I an idealist for hoping for more from my team?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kramejo01.html

 

[Cheesebeef]

Talk to Ainge. He said it. I would think he would know.

Whats Ainge supposed to say? Our leader and league MVP blew it by going for the steal, putting himself out of the play and making the D scramble? Watch the actual play, Mulli. Players may protect their teammates and lie, but the tape doesn't.

 

[mojorizen7]

Paxson's dagger

It instantly deflated an entire state of fans that had been united in a 10 month long frenzy the likes that hasn't been seen or felt here since.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Paxson's dagger

It instantly deflated an entire state of fans that had been united in a 10 month long frenzy the likes that hasn't been seen or felt here since.

a 1000X this. i really think people have forgotten the love affair that not only Phoenix had, but pretty much the entire league had for that Suns team. 300K fans came out in 110 degree heat to celebrate...the losing team, they won the most games in franchise history, Barkley won the MVP and the playoffs were made up of the stuff of legends from the Westphaul Guarantee, to some just outrageous games Barkley had against the Spurs including a series winner on the road to his epic 44 point, 24 rebound Game 7 to put us into the Finals. Phoenix had never been on a run like that and never did again until the 2008 Super Bowl.

Gotta love that both of those runs ended in probably two of the most classic heartbreaking endings in the two biggest sports for the upstart squad against both of those sports greatest dynasties.

ugh.

 

[mojorizen7]

a 1000X this. i really think people have forgotten the love affair that not only Phoenix had, but pretty much the entire league had for that Suns team. 300K fans came out in 110 degree heat to celebrate...the losing team, they won the most games in franchise history, Barkley won the MVP and the playoffs were made up of the stuff of legends from the Westphaul Guarantee, to some just outrageous games Barkley had against the Spurs including a series winner on the road to his epic 44 point, 24 rebound Game 7 to put us into the Finals. Phoenix had never been on a run like that and never did again until the 2008 Super Bowl.

Gotta love that both of those runs ended in probably two of the most classic heartbreaking endings in the two biggest sports for the upstart squad against both of those sports greatest dynasties.

ugh.

I was working at Bashas at the time in my early 20's, and i had to work during game 2 of the Finals. No biggie, the Str Mgr had the 620 radio feed blasting through the PA on the sales floor for every game. Unbelievable time that was.

 

[FArting]

Paxson 3 I was at that game

 

[Mulli]

Whats Ainge supposed to say? Our leader and league MVP blew it by going for the steal, putting himself out of the play and making the D scramble? Watch the actual play, Mulli. Players may protect their teammates and lie, but the tape doesn't.

 

[Dr. Jones]

a 1000X this. i really think people have forgotten the love affair that not only Phoenix had, but pretty much the entire league had for that Suns team. 300K fans came out in 110 degree heat to celebrate...the losing team, they won the most games in franchise history, Barkley won the MVP and the playoffs were made up of the stuff of legends from the Westphaul Guarantee, to some just outrageous games Barkley had against the Spurs including a series winner on the road to his epic 44 point, 24 rebound Game 7 to put us into the Finals. Phoenix had never been on a run like that and never did again until the 2008 Super Bowl.

Gotta love that both of those runs ended in probably two of the most classic heartbreaking endings in the two biggest sports for the upstart squad against both of those sports greatest dynasties.

ugh.

yes. It is still devastating to think about.