What should the Cardinals do on Black Monday?

[BritCard]

I understand the "Fire everyone" sentiment but we also have to be realistic.

Why would a Sean Payton or Jim Harbaugh come here with Kyler's injury hanging over them? Or even a Demeco Ryans? You'd have to be nuts. We probably wouldn't even attract retreads like Dan Quinn or guys like Shane Steichen. Maybe at best you get a long shot like Mike Kafka or Ben Johnson or a recent failure like Frank Reich.

If we fire Kliff we like get an Adam Game or Chuck Pagano. I mean, I respect Pagano but he's not the future.

It would be better to get a new GM, that is the biggest issue, and give them a year with Kliff. If that doesn't work out then you have a better shot at attracting someone talented.

Already in this hiring cycle your going up against the Broncos who have a stacked team, especially defense. Jim Harbaugh has got to fancy that.

Payton has said he'd like to be in LA and both of those jobs may come up.

Caroll must be thinking about retirement so the Seahawks might be available.

We'd also be up against Colts, Panthers and possibly the Raiders, Saints and Falcons. The only team were possibly more attrractive than is the Falcons.

And if they do hire a Pagano or Gase type your looking at at least 2 years of that crap because they have the "Kyler was injured" excuse.

 

[Stout]

I understand the "Fire everyone" sentiment but we also have to be realistic.

Why would a Sean Payton or Jim Harbaugh come here with Kyler's injury hanging over them? Or even a Demeco Ryans? You'd have to be nuts. We probably wouldn't even attract retreads like Dan Quinn or guys like Shane Steichen. Maybe at best you get a long shot like Mike Kafka or Ben Johnson or a recent failure like Frank Reich.

If we fire Kliff we like get an Adam Game or Chuck Pagano. I mean, I respect Pagano but he's not the future.

It would be better to get a new GM, that is the biggest issue, and give them a year with Kliff. If that doesn't work out then you have a better shot at attracting someone talented.

Already in this hiring cycle your going up against the Broncos who have a stacked team, especially defense. Jim Harbaugh has got to fancy that.

Payton has said he'd like to be in LA and both of those jobs may come up.

Caroll must be thinking about retirement so the Seahawks might be available.

We'd also be up against Colts, Panthers and possibly the Raiders, Saints and Falcons. The only team were possibly more attrractive than is the Falcons.

And if they do hire a Pagano or Gase type your looking at at least 2 years of that crap because they have the "Kyler was injured" excuse.

Terrible plan. Hire a new GM only to regress another year under Kliffy. Also defeatest thinking, assuming we could in no way hire an even passably decent coach. This plan is almost as bad as keeping them all for one more year.

 

[schutd]

Terrible plan. Hire a new GM only to regress another year under Kliffy. Also defeatest thinking, assuming we could in no way hire an even passably decent coach. This plan is almost as bad as keeping them all for one more year.

I dont love it either, but theres some thought and logic behind the plan. You could argue in favor of Brits idea. The injury is truly the worst freaking scenario for us. Ups the odds of both of those dudes keeping their jobs with the injury excuse, while simultaneously making us look far less attractive to any possible candidates to replace them, therefore upping their odds of staying even more. A GM only move makes A LOT of sense to me, even though I dont like it.

EDIT: Thats not to say you dont make a serious run at a Payton or a Harbaugh, just to test the waters, but if you get a vibe that no top tier coach is going to bite on the opportunity, you still have to S can Keim.

 

[Stout]

I dont love it either, but theres some thought and logic behind the plan. You could argue in favor of Brits idea. The injury is truly the worst freaking scenario for us. Ups the odds of both of those dudes keeping their jobs with the injury excuse, while simultaneously making us look far less attractive to any possible candidates to replace them, therefore upping their odds of staying even more. A GM only move makes A LOT of sense to me, even though I dont like it.

Yes, the injury was basically the worst thing that can happen. No, the move doesn't make a lot of sense. Why in the world would we want to keep Kliffy as HC, as he is freaking awful, and not try to hire a new coach under a new GM? Why waste a lame duck year in rebuilding, thus delaying a rebuild another year? What possible reason would there be to keep Kliffy on?

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Yes, the injury was basically the worst thing that can happen. No, the move doesn't make a lot of sense. Why in the world would we want to keep Kliffy as HC, as he is freaking awful, and not try to hire a new coach under a new GM? Why waste a lame duck year in rebuilding, thus delaying a rebuild another year? What possible reason would there be to keep Kliffy on?

MB = $

No other reason

 

[schutd]

Yes, the injury was basically the worst thing that can happen. No, the move doesn't make a lot of sense. Why in the world would we want to keep Kliffy as HC, as he is freaking awful, and not try to hire a new coach under a new GM? Why waste a lame duck year in rebuilding, thus delaying a rebuild another year? What possible reason would there be to keep Kliffy on?

Because there truly might not be a better candidate available. If you can stabilize the roster and show improvement from the GM side, and then the following year you have a fully healthy QB, you can let your new GM make a hire that could possibly take you to the next level. Or, with a better roster, Kliff maybe improves. Who knows. But the argument is there for the making that changing coaches this off season holds a lower percentage of long term improvement than letting it ride for a year and fixing things one step at a time.

However, like I said, if you put the feelers out there, and a franchise legitimizing candidate is actually willing to take on this dumpster fire, you go all in. No question.

 

[BritCard]

Terrible plan. Hire a new GM only to regress another year under Kliffy. Also defeatest thinking, assuming we could in no way hire an even passably decent coach. This plan is almost as bad as keeping them all for one more year.

Well we can be realistic, or we can live on Unicorns and Rainbows.

There is going to be 7-8 vacancies of which the cards may well be the least attractive. That's 7 jobs more attractive and the top 7 HC candidates available gone elsewhere. Several more would rather wait until the next cycle rather than take a sucky job.

No way were getting better than old retreads or long shots. Pagano, Caldwell, Gase, Shurmer, McAdoo etc

Zero chance of a Ryans, Harbaugh or Payton. Whith Kyler doubtful for next season.

 

[BritCard]

Yes, the injury was basically the worst thing that can happen. No, the move doesn't make a lot of sense. Why in the world would we want to keep Kliffy as HC, as he is freaking awful, and not try to hire a new coach under a new GM? Why waste a lame duck year in rebuilding, thus delaying a rebuild another year? What possible reason would there be to keep Kliffy on?

I just explained why.

Because you can either have 1 more year of Kliff before moving on to something better, or 2 years of sucking with Pagano, Gase, McAddo, Caldwell, Fangio etc until we actually move on and rebuild properly.

Plus the new GM gets to say "I inherited Kliff, now we start from scratch" rather than having to hire some no mark retread before firing them in 2 years and wasting 2 years of his tenure and already having a fired HC to his name.

You also have the potential upside of seeing whether the problem was Keim and if Kliff is actually much better in a properly run org. Which also takes away the pain of a full offensive scheme change. We saw this year how that effected the Raiders and Broncos.

Those are the realistic options. I simply don't see any way we attracted a good HC to take over in the next cycle.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

1. There will be 7-8 jobs open every year so that’s not a valid excuse

2. Any smart GM or owner always has a list of 3-4 coaches they’d want to hire in their head just in case no matter what the situation is. If they don’t it’s because they’re incompetent.

3. People like acting like Kliff is some sort of commodity is a joke. Unless we hire whoever Texas Tech or some other middling program recently fired it’d be difficult to do much worse than him.

 

[BritCard]

Because there truly might not be a better candidate available. If you can stabilize the roster and show improvement from the GM side, and then the following year you have a fully healthy QB, you can let your new GM make a hire that could possibly take you to the next level. Or, with a better roster, Kliff maybe improves. Who knows. But the argument is there for the making that changing coaches this off season holds a lower percentage of long term improvement than letting it ride for a year and fixing things one step at a time.

However, like I said, if you put the feelers out there, and a franchise legitimizing candidate is actually willing to take on this dumpster fire, you go all in. No question.

Exactly. You replace the GM, you turn the roster over, you get Kyler back up tp health towards the end of the season. You struggle through another crappy year and finish 6-11. Pick top 10 again. Fire Kliff.

To a new HC candidate you have a fully healthy QB returning. You have 2 recent top 10 picks. The new GM has starting setting the roster straight. It looks a hell of a lot more appealing than this hiring cycle to a top candidate.

Most people only get one chance to suceed as a HC. You mess it up on the first go, you rarely get another shot.

Nobody with any ambition would take the job this year.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Exactly. You replace the GM, you turn the roster over, you get Kyler back up tp health towards the end of the season. You struggle through another crappy year and finish 6-11. Pick top 10 again. Fire Kliff.

To a new HC candidate you have a fully healthy QB returning. You have 2 recent top 10 picks. The new GM has starting setting the roster straight. It looks a hell of a lot more appealing than this hiring cycle to a top candidate.

Most people only get one chance to suceed as a HC. You mess it up on the first go, you rarely get another shot.

Nobody with any ambition would take the job this year.

The biggest reasons we have historically struggled to get quality coaches is the owner and the GM not because of personnel. This is the NFL, you can turn over a roster in 1-2 offseasons.

 

[BritCard]

1. There will be 7-8 jobs open every year so that’s not a valid excuse

2. Any smart GM or owner always has a list of 3-4 coaches they’d want to hire in their head just in case no matter what the situation is. If they don’t it’s because they’re incompetent.

3. People like acting like Kliff is some sort of commodity is a joke. Unless we hire whoever Texas Tech or some other middling program recently fired it’d be difficult to do much worse than him.

1. There are always 7-8. You're not always very onbiously at the bottom of the 8. If your going to hire do it when you can be top 3-4.

2. Doesn't matter who a GM has in their head. Nobody with any ambition to have a long term HC future is taking a job where the highly paid starting QB is done for the foreseeable future with a giant question mark about what he is like when he back.

3. Nobody is acting like he is an asset. But if you think we can't get worse you haven't been paying attention.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

1. We will never be top 3-4 because of our owner.

2. Pretty much every team that has a coaching vacancy will have QB question marks.

3. It will be extremely difficult to find a coach with a worse resume than Kliff’s when we hired him. I mean I shouldn’t put it past Bidwill and Keim but it would be tough.

 

[BritCard]

The biggest reasons we have historically struggled to get quality coaches is the owner and the GM not because of personnel. This is the NFL, you can turn over a roster in 1-2 offseasons.

You can't turn over your long term injured highly paid QB.

If you think a Sean Payton or Harbaugh are coming into a situation where at best next season is a write off and at worse he never gets anywhere near back to the same level and you are handcuffed to that deal for 2-3 more seasons I don't know what to tell you.

And the same goes for the Demeco Ryan's and Shaun Steichen's who only have one shot at it.

If you were a sort after HC are you really telling me you would turn down Russ Wilson, Derek Carr, Justin Herbert etc for a mobile QB who was already having a bad year with a late season ACL tear?

 

[BritCard]

3. It will be extremely difficult to find a coach with a worse resume than Kliff’s when we hired him. I mean I shouldn’t put it past Bidwill and Keim but it would be tough.

Sure it is. The league is full of coaches who had terrible stints as a HC and are desperate for another shot. They are the only guys who would be interested in our current situation.

If your going into a hiring cycle do it with a QB that is healthy. Nobody is touching a QB with $160m of guarantees that can't realistically be moved until 2025 who might not recover from an ACL tear.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

It’s good to know the loser mentality that the front office has also permeates out to its supporters overseas.

“It’s might be hard to get better, so why even try!?!”

 

[kerouac9]

If you were a sort after HC are you really telling me you would turn down Russ Wilson, Derek Carr, Justin Herbert etc for a mobile QB who was already having a bad year with a late season ACL tear?

I'd take the risk on Kyler and his ACL over any of these guys except Herbert. And I'm a Kyler skeptic.

 

[PJ1]

Start with the GM and let him handle it from there. Would have to have control to make changes needed. No decent coach is sliding into this situation with meathead still the GM. Any decent candidate would pass and wait for a different opportunity. Let the new GM sell his vision to a good coaching candidate.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Start with the GM and let him handle it from there. Would have to have control to make changes needed. No decent coach is sliding into this situation with meathead still the GM. Any decent candidate would pass and wait for a different opportunity. Let the new GM sell his vision to a good coaching candidate.

This is accurate, Keim and Bidwill would be the biggest issues with landing a talent coach not the Kyler contract which as everyone has indicated could easily be jettisoned in 2 years.

I think most candidates would get over the Bidwill thing if they were assured property autonomy. Nobody is going to work for Bluto.

 

[BritCard]

It’s good to know the loser mentality that the front office has also permeates out to its supporters overseas.

“It’s might be hard to get better, so why even try!?!”

I'd take the risk on Kyler and his ACL over any of these guys except Herbert. And I'm a Kyler skeptic.

The window to be successful as an NFL HC is the smallest it's ever been and you only get one shot. It's extremely rare to get two.

And you're going to gamble your whole career as a HC on any QB with a late season ACL tear handcuffed to a top 4 contract you can't get out of for years without crippling cap consequences? I don't care who that QB is but especially one that was already playing poorly and his only bright spot has been his quick twitch mobility. Anyone that takes the job this year is facing the not insignificant gamble of sucking for the next 3 years because you're paying a hobbled QB 22% of your cap space.

Kyler was already extremely averse to getting hit. Can you imagine him with less mobilty and no ability to escape with his pocket presense?

Sorry I just don't see it.

There was already only a very small chance a top candidate would come here and Kyler's injury just made it practically none existent. The only way you get a Payton or anyone else is if Mike throws all the money at him and makes them one of the highest paid HC's in the league to the point they can't refuse.

But considering Payton would likely get highly paid anywhere he went I don't see that working either.

 

[BritCard]

It’s good to know the loser mentality that the front office has also permeates out to its supporters overseas.

“It’s might be hard to get better, so why even try!?!”

I have ambitions to screw Gal Gadot but I'm not going to leave my wife in anticipation.

We can live in fairy land, or we can be realistic.

 

[JohnnyCakes]

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Suicide is funny to you huh?

 

[BritCard]

How many teams have ever fired their head coach with their highly paid starting quarterback out with an ACL tear or any other major injury? Can anyone think of a single one?

The closest I can think of is Mike Shanahan but he had 1 more season after RG3.

There's probably a reason for that.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Fire Kliff and Fire Keim.

And hard pass on Jim Harbaugh.

 

[Zalixar]

Suicide is funny to you huh?

Anything can be funny, humor is used even in the most serious of situations. Perhaps this should be directed at the person who joked about mass suicide, no?