Where do the Suns go from here?

elindholm

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I don't want to be pessimistic, but it seems pretty likely now that the Suns will be eliminated by the Spurs. So it’s time to think about the future. With the season almost officially over, maybe we can start organizing our thoughts.

1. Should the Suns keep Joe Johnson?
Yes. As one of his biggest detractors, I have to say that I'm now sold on him, based on his play during the end of the regular season and in his abbreviated playoff run.

2. Should the Suns keep the same starting lineup?
That's the big question. Whether Stoudemire and Marion "hate" playing a position up is open to debate, but what seems clear is that this year's starting lineup gives up too much defensively to be a championship favorite.

D’Antoni, however, has already indicated that he’s leaning toward staying the course, for instance in his comments that the lineup would have five three-point shooters next year. The regular season showed that small ball can win a lot of games. Will that continue to be the priority, or will the Suns start thinking in October about the late playoff rounds, the way great teams do?

3. If the Suns keep the same lineup, how can they improve?
That’s something of a mystery, at least to me. Offensively, I doubt they can get much better. Stoudemire and Johnson have room to improve, but Nash and Marion are at their peaks and Richardson just isn’t an elite player. They could improve their rebounding by learning to block out, so there’s hope there. Stoudemire has a lot to learn defensively, but it’s hard Marion as a long-term answer for guarding opposing power forwards.

4. If the Suns change their lineup by adding another big man, where do they get him?
Where, indeed? No one good enough to make a difference will be available where the Suns draft. Whatever new form the MLE takes in the new CBA, it’s unlikely to be enough money to recruit a quality big. That leaves a trade. A sign-and-trade for Johnson is possible if he is determined to play somewhere else, but most likely he’ll see the wisdom of staying in Phoenix. That leaves Richardson and Marion as the only viable trade bait. With Marion’s value much higher than Richardson’s, and having come off the best season of his career, he represents the only realistic option the Suns have for adding another good center or power forward. But will the franchise have the stomach to trade him? I doubt it, at least not now.

5. So will the Suns look much different next year?
I guess not. It doesn’t seem like any of the starters are going anywhere, and the Suns don’t have any other way of bringing in a really good player. Figure on the first-round draft pick and an MLE signing as two more role players to add to the rotation. McCarty is probably gone, but if Hunter and Barbosa can improve over the summer, the roster could go ten players deep. Maybe the improved depth and an introduction to the concepts of rebounding and defense will be enough to get this team to the next level.
 
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JS22

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goldseraph said:
Not wasting any time huh?

Do you honestly think that the Suns are going to win 4 straight against SA?
 

Michael

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5. So will the Suns look much different next year?
I guess not. It doesn’t seem like any of the starters are going anywhere

That's great!

Looking forward to another great regular season, entertaining basketball and a long playoff run!

It's not like we were trashed by the Spurs in the first round. In fact we should have won the first two games of the conference finals.

It's been said often but as often forgotten: We didn't make the playoffs last year and have a very young and inexperienced team.

Let's face San Antonio again next year with one more year of experience for our young players and JJ in the lineup!

Oh, but spend the offseason to work on the D.
 

JS22

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1. Should the Suns keep Joe Johnson?
Hell yes. It seems that the light bulb has finally gone off in his head. If the primary option, JJ would put up around 24/7/6 numbers.

2. Should the Suns keep the same starting lineup?
No. At the start of the season I HATED the lineup, and made sure everyone knew, but then it started to grow on me when they were 31-4. This series has brought me back to my original hatred of a small no defense / rebounding lineup. With Hunter in the Spurs shot 45%. With Hunter out....get ready...72%! If this team could play AVERAGE defense, atleast be in the top 18, they'd win the title IMO. Start Hunter next year, and bring Q off the bench. You can still run and gun. Hunter is quick and athletic.

Nash
Johnson
Marion
Amare
Hunter

Richardson
Jackson
(misc bench players)

3. If the Suns keep the same lineup, how can they improve?
I dont know. Go zone more?

4. If the Suns change their lineup by adding another big man, where do they get him?
I don't know the current free agent list. My guess is that they would draft an athletic big man, or even the sleeper hit, Diogu. Ike may not be as quick as other centers, but the guy can flat out play. (And yes, I know he is short.)

5. So will the Suns look much different next year?
Nah. No need to overhaul a team that won 62 games and made it to the WCF. They simply need to get "tougher." How? Well, thats not my problem to worry about. (Until I get the new NBA 2k6 game next year. ;))
 

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#1 priority: Make Amare happy and bring in a proficient big man. Both Spurs and Sonics and the Heats play conventional front lines and they can score 110 as well as the Suns can, and Spurs and Heats second bigmen are only adequate while Sonics have only role player bigmen.

With Amare-Nash p-n-r as the joker in our cards, we should play Nash more off-ball like how Jazz used to play Stockton. This'd also help Amare become the "complete player" he openly wanted by playing him more low post like Duncan and Barkley earlier.

It's a fallacy that we need to play uptempo all game and all season to be successful.

The question is how to get the big man. If winning the championship is the goal the new season is aiming at, we might revisit the idea to trade Marion, now at his highest value, for a big man like Dalembert, or maybe Chandler+Deng? Note that Marshall is a FA and should be an adeqaute replacement, did the Suns need to play skill-ball for stretches.
 
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JS22

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Marion for Dalembert? .....maybe....ugh, I dont know. I'd expect more than just Dalembert.

Chandler, Deng? No thanks. Chandler has yet to realize his potential, and its been what..5 years? Deng is just a crappier version of Marion.
 
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elindholm

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I like Hunter, but I guarantee that he will not be the Suns' #1 center next season. (I don't know about whether he'll be the "starter," because the Suns historically have experimented with "starting" centers who play only 15 minutes a game, and that doesn't really count.) Against most regular-season opponents, the amount that Hunter gives up offensively more than cancels out the amount that he provides defensively. That wasn't true against the Spurs, but I just don't see D'Antoni making a large-scale adjustment when the team had such success outscoring everyone this year.
 
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elindholm

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Make Amare happy and bring in a proficient big man.

I just don't think there's any way to do that without trading Marion, and I don't see it happening.
 

cly2tw

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elindholm said:
I like Hunter, but I guarantee that he will not be the Suns' #1 center next season. (I don't know about whether he'll be the "starter," because the Suns historically have experimented with "starting" centers who play only 15 minutes a game, and that doesn't really count.) Against most regular-season opponents, the amount that Hunter gives up offensively more than cancels out the amount that he provides defensively. That wasn't true against the Spurs, but I just don't see D'Antoni making a large-scale adjustment when the team had such success outscoring everyone this year.

Hunter's watching on standing around the 3-pt area is really annoying. It's probably not up to DA not to do large scale adjustment if Amare is to be taken seriously at what he said in a recent interview.
 
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elindholm

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if Amare is to be taken seriously at what he said in a recent interview.

You've probably been following the extensive discussion on this board about this issue. My opinion is that it is vastly overblown.
 

goldseraph

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Originally Posted by goldseraph
Not wasting any time huh?

Originally Posted by WastedFate


Do you honestly think that the Suns are going to win 4 straight against SA?


Of course not, I'm just saying, the second the season appears to be coming
to a close we have to grind out every issue for next year? We'll have 5 months of offseason to worry about all that.
 

PhxGametime

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cly2tw said:
The question is how to get the big man. If winning the championship is the goal the new season is aiming at, we might revisit the idea to trade Marion, now at his highest value, for a big man like Dalembert, or maybe Chandler+Deng? Note that Marshall is a FA and should be an adeqaute replacement, did the Suns need to play skill-ball for stretches.


Wouldn't it be easier to Trade Joe Johnson for say Dalembert and Ollie, I really don't want to give Dalembert a contract anywhere close to Marion's and then Draft a Point-Forward type in Draft? If I wanted to Trade JJ ;) but Trading Marion and that contract around now like what 12 million? I wouldn't want any part of the high-end contracts Sixers have, if you weren't talking about given similar contracts...
 

JS22

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goldseraph said:
Of course not, I'm just saying, the second the season appears to be coming
to a close we have to grind out every issue for next year? We'll have 5 months of offseason to worry about all that.

Yes, this is a message board. :D

But i get your point.
 

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Marion's game is clearly not suited for the slow down half court game of the playoffs. Sure, he put up huge numbers on Dirk, but let's face it, he's looked completely lost this season. Giving Marion 12 million+ this season could be pretty tough. Bottom line is, as a mid market team, we can't afford bad contracts.
 

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basically - next year, you stay the course. You add some depth with the mid-level (hopefully a back-up PG - defensive oriented and a big man - don't know if you can get both) and make sure you nail that 1st round pick.

Been saying all year leading up to the playoffs that NO team in the last two decades or so has just risen up and won the title - every team has to get over that hump. You remember how many times a Shaq team would get SWEPT and people would rip him for it? Or how the Pistons got SWEPT by the Nets two years ago and so on and so on... This team needs time and it needs the burn - all title teams do.

However - with that being said - if we follow a similar fate next year at the hands of the Spurs or worse, lose in one of the first two rounds - the key to making this team ULTIMATLEY better is Shawn Marion. HE will be the piece that is traded off this club to get that final piece (probably along with some kind of Tim Perry/Andrew Lang wannabes). With Shawn, we're gnn ahave to look at the law of diminishing returns in a couple years - without his athleticism he's gonna be worthless. As it - he's soft as a tissue, he's got a HUGE contract and well, without his hops - what good is he gonna be? Ultiamtely as well, Amare is going to be our PF and the only plum piec eof the Suns that will probably be able to be used to get that missing piece is gonna be a guy the quality of player that Marion is and will be in a year. NOTE - this is only if we flame out again next year - and I mean get our asses handed to us like we are this series.

I don't know who that player will be ultimately that puts us over the top, but I can see us pulling a big trade NEXT offseason if the results are the same next year.

But until then - you sit tight - you hopefully let the sting of this loss set in - hopefully it teaches DA a couple things about his stubborness(which up until now has worked WONDERS, but as Pop has showed - if you can play ANY style of basketball, most likely NO ONE can beat you) and you get back on the court and ball. That's all.

All that being said - I absolutely can't believe how pathetic Shawn Marion has been this series - I really thought maybe he turned a corner in the last series, but in reality, it's not hard to look good when no one's playing defense (unless you're Q in that series).
 

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BbaLL_31 said:
Wouldn't it be easier to Trade Joe Johnson for say Dalembert and Ollie, I really don't want to give Dalembert a contract anywhere close to Marion's and then Draft a Point-Forward type in Draft? If I wanted to Trade JJ ;) but Trading Marion and that contract around now like what 12 million? I wouldn't want any part of the high-end contracts Sixers have, if you weren't talking about given similar contracts...

The max would only be 10mil or so. No, it'd be say 8mil for Dalembert sign and trade + some others.
 

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re-signing JJ is a must - there's no way in hell I trade him for Dalembert. Shawn as a our third option? Not on a championship team - no way. JJ, Nash and Amare are the only guys who can get that last shot IMO when the chips are ultimately down.
 

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That was a very nice run for the ring from a young team that was terrible last year.

I wouldn't make any drastic changes. Rome wasn't built in 3 days. The Spurs did show which areas the Suns have to improve:

1. Being more focused for 48 minutes
2. Getting deeper
3. Getting some defensive stops

I would re-sign Hunter (if he is ready to sign about 1 mil./year) and let McCarthy to go.

I would draft the best available talent and split the MLE between a 3P-shooter F and a defensive-minded swingman.

Three FA scenarios:

Marshall and A. Griffin or Buckner
Raja Bell and James Jones
Kerry Kittles and Tony Kukoc
 
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elindholm

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No way will Marshall sign for less than the full MLE, and his defense is too weak to help the Suns where they need it most.
 

hcsilla

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elindholm said:
No way will Marshall sign for less than the full MLE, and his defense is too weak to help the Suns where they need it most.

He could get the full MLE since Griffin and Buckner probably would sign for the vet min.

Marshall is not a great defender but Suns would have needed rather a defensive minded swingman who could have stopped Ginobili's and Parker's penetrations (although Buckner hasn't had much success against Ginobili either).

Nobody can stop Duncan one-on-one all we can expect from the D that he should work for his points and try to obstacle him in getting a low-post position what Suns executed especially poorly last two games in.

Marshall is a solid rebounder and is able to hold his position under the rim. At least more than Hunter or Marion is.
 

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I'm not even sure, the team needs to Trade JJ or Marion... there are a couple of Unrestricted FA's that could help team and get a lot of time, the last time somebody posted the List... the only guy big I can remember because he's 1 of my favorite players not wearing a Suns uniform is Stromile Swift and it's all up to the player if he wants a decent contract (Mid-Level), playing time, and the piece to put the Suns into Title Contenders.

Adding a decent big with Mid-Level, a healthier team, and 1 more 1st rounder and improvement in whatever direction they plan to address. In 1 year, Barbosa can turn into your 9th-10th player in rotation, I'd think the Suns would have a much better chance and I like Barbosa...
 

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hcsilla said:
That was a very nice run for the ring from a young team that was terrible last year.

I wouldn't make any drastic changes. Rome wasn't built in 3 days. The Spurs did show which areas the Suns have to improve:

1. Being more focused for 48 minutes
2. Getting deeper
3. Getting some defensive stops

Agreed on all counts but you forgot one ... getting better at rebounding. Time in and time out this series and plenty of times throughout the season that has shown to be a glowing weakness. When you're not a good defensive team to begin with, it doesn't help matters by allowing the opposing team to get 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th chances.

I would re-sign Hunter (if he is ready to sign about 1 mil./year) and let McCarthy to go.

The interesting this will be to see if Hunter uses his player option. Hopefully the FO can convince him to put off his big pay day for one more year (BTW we aren't re-signing him for less than what we already gave him).

This league has shown its desperate for big men. Hell if a player is 6'11" or taller and has the ability to walk and chew gum at the same time, they'll get the MLE. Trust me if Hunter wants to go on the open market he will be paid more by somebody else.

I would draft the best available talent and split the MLE between a 3P-shooter F and a defensive-minded swingman.

Three FA scenarios:

Marshall and A. Griffin or Buckner
Raja Bell and James Jones
Kerry Kittles and Tony Kukoc

I agree with that for the most part but what we do NOT need is another 3 pt shooter. We have plenty as it is and I don't want this team to become even worse off for refusing to drive into the lane. Just what we need another player to stand at the 3 pt line ... ugh
 

hcsilla

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Evil Ash said:
I agree with that for the most part but what we do NOT need is another 3 pt shooter. We have plenty as it is and I don't want this team to become even worse off for refusing to drive into the lane. Just what we need another player to stand at the 3 pt line ... ugh

Since D'Antoni is sticking to his starting five signing another 3P-shooter doesn't mean that we have another player standing at the 3P-line but the opportunity to play our game even if someone is in foul-trouble, struggling or getting rest.
 

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