Where is all the money going to go?

[Cbus cardsfan]

We're all talking about losing Dansby.Let's assume we do.
money off the books from last year:

Dansby 10 mill
Berry 1 mill
Okeafor 5 mill
Rackers 1 mill
Warner if he retires 4 mill
Gandy 5 mill
Boldin gets traded 3 mill

right there is 29 mill and we'll be restricted in signing free agents. Why not pay Dansby? I could see another 5 mill come off the books if McFadden gets released. They did it with Hood last year. You don't need 34 million dollars to re-do DD and Rolle.Especially cap space wise, if there is one.They are the only 2 that will command any significant money.

 

[DieHardCardFan]

We're all talking about losing Dansby.Let's assume we do.
money off the books from last year:

Dansby 10 mill
Berry 1 mill
Okeafor 5 mill
Rackers 1 mill
Warner if he retires 4 mill
Gandy 5 mill
Boldin gets traded 3 mill

right there is 29 mill and we'll be restricted in signing free agents. Why not pay Dansby? I could see another 5 mill come off the books if McFadden gets released. They did it with Hood last year. You don't need 34 million dollars to re-do DD and Rolle.Especially cap space wise, if there is one.They are the only 2 that will command any significant money.

Interesting question. But I would not spend the money Dansby wants on him. He has bank rolled the last couple years and now needs to go find another team to drain. The guy is a great player, but not consistent enough and not diverse enough to get paid as much as he wants. At least not by the cards who just gave him almost $20 million the last two years. But if he is willing to take a FAIR contract sign him up. Problem is two years in a row they have tried to give him a FAIR contract and he has wanted more.

 

[NuttinButTDs]

Just because players leave does not mean we save money this year. Last years book has no relation to 2010 salaries/bonuses.

The only time we save money is if the player leaves while under contract. Hence we are not saving 9M on Dansby. What is not accounted in your post is the 2010 player raises et based on their contracts. Antrel Rolle is a good example.

Joe - the resident capalogist can answer this is in detail

 

[Shane]

Also the whole NO SALARY CAP pay Dansby whatever he wants argument you have cbus just isn't fiscally smart no matter how much is coming off the books.

There may be no cap next season but you can bet there will be a cap of some kind in 2011 or 2012 if their is a work stoppage.

So you sign some guy to a monster deal because there is no cap in 2010 yet when play resumes in 2011 you have to fit his and everyone else s salary back under a salary cap.

I know I know you guys will come back with the "just pay it in bonus money up front and put it all on the 2010 books" well there is still a problem with that. While this team financially is leap years ahead of where it was it still can't compete with the Jones' and Paul Allan's of the world. NOT EVEN CLOSE. So while you are asking to pay Dansby an astronomical amount of $$$ dont forget that it isnt a forgone conclusion that a guy like Boldin will still be taken care of. Many of you are still calling for the Cards to go ahead and restructure Dockett this off season with 2 years left on his deal. Don't forget what kind of contract and up front $$$$ that's going to take. Its going to have to be a contract in the 100 million range.

Don't forget whatever $$$ they have to put out for whatever FA they do decide to bring in etc...etc... If any of you think the Bidwill's are gonna fork out that kind of UP FRONT money in one off season your nuts. Plus I'm betting they don't have the kind of money to do all of that.

Many of you ask on here "why do you care what Bidwill spends his money on?" I care because while it doesnt hurt me personally I do invest a crap load of $$$ into this team and I would like them to spend wisely so it doesnt effect the overall product I PAY FOR down the line.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Just because players leave does not mean we save money this year. Last years book has no relation to 2010 salaries/bonuses.

The only time we save money is if the player leaves while under contract. Hence we are not saving 9M on Dansby. What is not accounted in your post is the 2010 player raises et based on their contracts. Antrel Rolle is a good example.

Joe - the resident capalogist can answer this is in detail

Last year's salaries absolutley have something to do with this years. That money has been paid and the Cards no longer owe those guys a penny. You really don't think, for example, replacing Okeafor's 4.5 mill salary with Davis's 250,00, or whatever he makes, doesn't affect this year's team budget.


Shane, i didn't say pay Dansby whatever he wants.I meant you could franchise him at 13mill, or whatever the salary would be, and you'd still be in better shape salary-wise than last year. Since there is really limited free agency to spend money on, why not tag him again?

 

[Shane]

Last year's salaries absolutley have something to do with this years. That money has been paid and the Cards no longer owe those guys a penny. You really don't think, for example, replacing Okeafor's 4.5 mill salary with Davis's 250,00, or whatever he makes, doesn't affect this year's team budget.


Shane, i didn't say pay Dansby whatever he wants.I meant you could franchise him at 13mill, or whatever the salary would be, and you'd still be in better shape salary-wise than last year. Since there is really limited free agency to spend money on, why not tag him again?

If Warner comes back I could see doing that. We have a legitimate shot a making some noise next year with him at QB. If he retires I say save the $$$... Then we go into rebuild mode IMO.

This defense is no world beater with Dansby and he has made it quite clear he doesn't want to be here long term. So if the rebuild must start I would rather start without him.

 

[Buckybird]

We're all talking about losing Dansby.Let's assume we do.
money off the books from last year:

Dansby 10 mill
Berry 1 mill
Okeafor 5 mill
Rackers 1 mill
Warner if he retires 4 mill
Gandy 5 mill
Boldin gets traded 3 mill

right there is 29 mill and we'll be restricted in signing free agents. Why not pay Dansby? I could see another 5 mill come off the books if McFadden gets released. They did it with Hood last year. You don't need 34 million dollars to re-do DD and Rolle.Especially cap space wise, if there is one.They are the only 2 that will command any significant money.

Let's not forget Mr. B still have to cough up cash for Wiz & several coaches. I believe Rod Graves' contract is also up. Where does all the $$$ go? I could see the Cards resigning Rackers, Dockett & maybe Rolle. This team will look so much differant & younger next season if you ask me.

 

[joeshmo]

Where does all the money go. People say this argument every year. They see that we will have 30 or so mill come off the books and think alright we can go out and spend willy nilly. And every year I always have to put peoples glee into check. Yes we will be losing 30 mill in salary or so. Not put that into perspective.

We only have 30 players under contract. We still have to sign 23 more players. We still have to tender up to 22 RFA's or EFA's, more then double because of the new RFA rules.

Then there is the fact that the cap does not tell you how much a team has to spend in any given year. The cap is just a convoluted way of accounting and pro rating all the forms of bonuses a team hands out. It does not tell you how much a team spends on players in any given year, which also means it does not tell a team how much to spend on players per year. Each team has a player salary budget which has nothing to do with the cap because there are so many loop holes and ways of manipulating the cap, and also includes players who may not even be on the team anymore, money that the owner has already paid in past years. Its the same for any company who has an operations budget. Just because there is no cap doesn't mean you can go over your operations budget or payroll budget. Payroll is what teams spend on players, not the cap.

http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/totalpayroll.aspx?year=2009

Just look at each teams payroll this 2009 season and you can see it has nothing to do with the cap.

Also franchising Dansby again will not be 13 mill. I know some media have thrown out that number but what they have forgot is that when a player is tagged for a 3rd time that player gets paid like a top 5 QB no matter what position they played. The franchise tag number for 2009 QB was 15 mill.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Where does all the money go. People say this argument every year. They see that we will have 30 or so mill come off the books and think alright we can go out and spend willy nilly. And every year I always have to put peoples glee into check. Yes we will be losing 30 mill in salary or so. Not put that into perspective.

We only have 30 players under contract. We still have to sign 23 more players. We still have to tender up to 22 RFA's or EFA's, more then double because of the new RFA rules.

Then there is the fact that the cap does not tell you how much a team has to spend in any given year. The cap is just a convoluted way of accounting and pro rating all the forms of bonuses a team hands out. It does not tell you how much a team spends on players in any given year, which also means it does not tell a team how much to spend on players per year. Each team has a player salary budget which has nothing to do with the cap because there are so many loop holes and ways of manipulating the cap, and also includes players who may not even be on the team anymore, money that the owner has already paid in past years. Its the same for any company who has an operations budget. Just because there is no cap doesn't mean you can go over your operations budget or payroll budget. Payroll is what teams spend on players, not the cap.

http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/totalpayroll.aspx?year=2009

Just look at each teams payroll this 2009 season and you can see it has nothing to do with the cap.

Also franchising Dansby again will not be 13 mill. I know some media have thrown out that number but what they have forgot is that when a player is tagged for a 3rd time that player gets paid like a top 5 QB no matter what position they played. The franchise tag number for 2009 QB was 15 mill.

Great post...

Amazing that the Cowgirls only came out of pocket with $90million.... Jones is pocketing some serious CASH as his new stadium brings in 85k - 95k fans each game.... WOW!

 

[AntSports Steve]

"just pay it in bonus money up front and put it all on the 2010 books"

from Shane H

Because there is no cap in 2010, they added extra rules that limit the amount of front loading allowed on contracts.

There may be no cap next season, but they made it difficult for top 8 teams to spend money.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Also franchising Dansby again will not be 13 mill. I know some media have thrown out that number but what they have forgot is that when a player is tagged for a 3rd time that player gets paid like a top 5 QB no matter what position they played. The franchise tag number for 2009 QB was 15 mill.

Wow, didn't know that. 15 mil for Dansby? I don't think so.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Where does all the money go. People say this argument every year. They see that we will have 30 or so mill come off the books and think alright we can go out and spend willy nilly. And every year I always have to put peoples glee into check. Yes we will be losing 30 mill in salary or so. Not put that into perspective.

We only have 30 players under contract. We still have to sign 23 more players. We still have to tender up to 22 RFA's or EFA's, more then double because of the new RFA rules.

Then there is the fact that the cap does not tell you how much a team has to spend in any given year. The cap is just a convoluted way of accounting and pro rating all the forms of bonuses a team hands out. It does not tell you how much a team spends on players in any given year, which also means it does not tell a team how much to spend on players per year. Each team has a player salary budget which has nothing to do with the cap because there are so many loop holes and ways of manipulating the cap, and also includes players who may not even be on the team anymore, money that the owner has already paid in past years. Its the same for any company who has an operations budget. Just because there is no cap doesn't mean you can go over your operations budget or payroll budget. Payroll is what teams spend on players, not the cap.

http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/totalpayroll.aspx?year=2009

Just look at each teams payroll this 2009 season and you can see it has nothing to do with the cap.

Also franchising Dansby again will not be 13 mill. I know some media have thrown out that number but what they have forgot is that when a player is tagged for a 3rd time that player gets paid like a top 5 QB no matter what position they played. The franchise tag number for 2009 QB was 15 mill.

you don't need to put my glee in check. I know the cap rules. I was talking about actual contract money. I also know we have restricted FA'S to sign. It's all about how you structure the contracts with rergards to the cap. Even if KD would get 15 mill, which the Cards aren't likely going to do, the could easily absorb the hit if Warner retires and Boldin gets traded. Even if they don't the Cards could accept that hit which is pointless because there is likely no cap next year. These 22 players salary incresases will be less than what the Cards have coming off the books from last year.Some guys will be let go,some will be replaced by minimum salary rookies, so their actual payroll, especially if they let KD walk, is going to be lower.

 

[joeshmo]

Even if KD would get 15 mill, which the Cards aren't likely going to do, the could easily absorb the hit if Warner retires and Boldin gets traded. Even if they don't the Cards could accept that hit which is pointless because there is likely no cap next year. These 22 players salary increases will be less than what the Cards have coming off the books from last year.Some guys will be let go,some will be replaced by minimum salary rookies, so their actual payroll, especially if they let KD walk, is going to be lower.

You do not know that, because you don't know how much salary we are on the hook for the 2010 season right now or after we tender all of our RFA's, EFA's, the other 30 players under contracts who have salaries that increase, or what bonuses are due, or how much more it will cost to fill out the roster.

To say it would be easy to absorb, or that their payroll will be lower, without actually knowing what their payroll will actually be makes your comments nothing but hyperbole.

Heck I don't even know what our payroll looks like as of right now for 2010, its probably my fault for not putting out a 2010 payroll spreadsheet this year. With it being uncapped I didn't think it was needed.

 

[Buckybird]

Elton Brown $3.3 mil? WTF!!!

 

[Cards Czar]

You do not know that, because you don't know how much salary we are on the hook for the 2010 season right now or after we tender all of our RFA's, EFA's, the other 30 players under contracts who have salaries that increase, or what bonuses are due, or how much more it will cost to fill out the roster.

To say it would be easy to absorb, or that their payroll will be lower, without actually knowing what their payroll will actually be makes your comments nothing but hyperbole.

Heck I don't even know what our payroll looks like as of right now for 2010, its probably my fault for not putting out a 2010 payroll spreadsheet this year. With it being uncapped I didn't think it was needed.

Get to work! just kidding. I would love to see what you come up with.

 

[vince56]

{MADDEN} Can't we just go in and edit all of Dansby's ratings to 100, sign him for 50mil with no bonus then trade him for 3 1st round picks? That would set us up nicely and with no cap hit!!!!{/MADDEN}

 

[Catfish]

Also the whole NO SALARY CAP pay Dansby whatever he wants argument you have cbus just isn't fiscally smart no matter how much is coming off the books.

There may be no cap next season but you can bet there will be a cap of some kind in 2011 or 2012 if their is a work stoppage.

So you sign some guy to a monster deal because there is no cap in 2010 yet when play resumes in 2011 you have to fit his and everyone else s salary back under a salary cap.

I know I know you guys will come back with the "just pay it in bonus money up front and put it all on the 2010 books" well there is still a problem with that. While this team financially is leap years ahead of where it was it still can't compete with the Jones' and Paul Allan's of the world. NOT EVEN CLOSE. So while you are asking to pay Dansby an astronomical amount of $$$ dont forget that it isnt a forgone conclusion that a guy like Boldin will still be taken care of. Many of you are still calling for the Cards to go ahead and restructure Dockett this off season with 2 years left on his deal. Don't forget what kind of contract and up front $$$$ that's going to take. Its going to have to be a contract in the 100 million range.

Don't forget whatever $$$ they have to put out for whatever FA they do decide to bring in etc...etc... If any of you think the Bidwill's are gonna fork out that kind of UP FRONT money in one off season your nuts. Plus I'm betting they don't have the kind of money to do all of that.

Many of you ask on here "why do you care what Bidwill spends his money on?" I care because while it doesnt hurt me personally I do invest a crap load of $$$ into this team and I would like them to spend wisely so it doesnt effect the overall product I PAY FOR down the line.

Shane, you are wise to understand that whatever goes on the books in 2010 will need to be fitted under the cap in 2011. Many don't think that far ahead. I hope to see us improve our quality and depth, but to still be physcally sound, so that we can go on to continue Whiz's program.

 

[kerouac9]

Joe, I hope you're still lurking on this thread.

I know that we can only sign free agents for the dollar amount of salaries that departing FAs sign for, but do we get any relief for players that don't get signed in free agency?

For example, Chike Okeafor and Mike Gandy are free agents. If neither of them get signed, do the Cards get no added FA money as a Final Eight team? If the Cards don't extend Dansby, are we basically praying that him and Neil (C)Rackers sign for eight-figure deals so the Cards can sign anyone besides UDCFAs after the draft to fill out the roster?

 

[Shane]

Joe, I hope you're still lurking on this thread.

I know that we can only sign free agents for the dollar amount of salaries that departing FAs sign for, but do we get any relief for players that don't get signed in free agency?

For example, Chike Okeafor and Mike Gandy are free agents. If neither of them get signed, do the Cards get no added FA money as a Final Eight team? If the Cards don't extend Dansby, are we basically praying that him and Neil (C)Rackers sign for eight-figure deals so the Cards can sign anyone besides UDCFAs after the draft to fill out the roster?

Joe basically said that with Warner you don't get to sign anyone else if he retires. I would assume that with Chike and Gandy the same rule would apply.