Which 2 Suns Centers?

[Yuma]

Jon Gambadoro says his Suns insiders are telling him the Suns will only keep 2 of the Centers they have now. If you had to chose a tandem, which two Centers would you chose?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Jon Gambadoro says his Suns insiders are telling him the Suns will only keep 2 of the Centers they have now. If you had to chose a tandem, which two Centers would you chose?

Oh man, I hate to hear this. I don't like the idea that we're necessarily keeping two of them. I think Williams is an easy call. I'd like to see us trade Chandler to a true contender if at all possible. And I'd like to see how Len finishes the season before making a call on him. IOW, I'd still like the option of keeping just one of them. I guess I'd have to go Williams/Len and still let Len walk if his contract isn't reasonable.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Williams for sure. Len if the price is right. Chandler or someone new if Len costs too much.

 

[Yuma]

Poll at the top of the thread!!!

 

[SirStefan32]

I like Chandler as an assistant coach, but that's a pretty expensive assistant coach. I have to say Williams and Len.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns should be able to sign Williams to a reasonable contract plus I like what he brings to the table. So the Suns should keep him.

If I'm the Suns I probably keep Chandler to see what happens to Len. Chandler only makes $26,585 million over the next two seasons This seems reasonable to me plus the Suns can always trade him later depending on what happens to Len.

So to clarify, I keep Chandler and Williams with the option to keep Len.

 

[sunsfan88]

Chandler and Len.

Chandler has been rebounding at an amazing level this season and I think he's found the fountain of youth in Phoenix much like Grant Hill and Steve Nash before him.

 

[Hoop Head]

It's pretty sad the Suns have probably their best tandem at Center in franchise history at a point when the position is changing across the league and the 2 we have are the type that are being phased out.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The more I think about this the worse I feel. I like Williams but I'm not sure that he'll thrive as the starter once opponents start preparing for him.

Chandler has clearly started his decline. He was still racking up the boards but he was nailed to the floor most nights and frequently lost rebounds to athletic players that just a season ago would have been his. And his rim protection is almost non-existent. He's our best bet guarding the plodders but they're disappearing quickly.

We cannot go into another season with Tyson as the anticipated starter, it's depressing just thinking about it. I'd be fine with him as a backup or maybe even the third center but that still leaves us in need of a starter. And Len has failed to win that position despite opportunities.

 

[sunsfan88]

The more I think about this the worse I feel. I like Williams but I'm not sure that he'll thrive as the starter once opponents start preparing for him.

Chandler has clearly started his decline. He was still racking up the boards but he was nailed to the floor most nights and frequently lost rebounds to athletic players that just a season ago would have been his. And his rim protection is almost non-existent. He's our best bet guarding the plodders but they're disappearing quickly.

We cannot go into another season with Tyson as the anticipated starter, it's depressing just thinking about it. I'd be fine with him as a backup or maybe even the third center but that still leaves us in need of a starter. And Len has failed to win that position despite opportunities.

Feels like you are saying that none of the 3 are options.

And that could be true. The fact that Alan Williams is the best one of the three currently maybe proves that.

I just don't want the Suns to make a mistake by overpaying Len. He will be a bust for us if we keep him. I haven't felt this strongly about a player since the drafting of Kendall Marshall. Len should take the vet minimum and play for Pop cause he needs a lot of coaching in order for him to play wel in the league and the Suns have traditionally been among the very worst in the NBA at developing big men.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I guess the upside for the Suns is that the center position is becoming less and less relevant in today's NBA. I mean, the Pelicans have arguably the two best centers in the entire league and can't seem to win a game.

If you look at the top 4 teams in each conference, they're not winning because of some huge advantage in the low post.

Cavs- Tristan Thompson is more like a traditional 4.
Celtics- Horford is also more like a 4. Their rebounding and post defense is arguably their weakness as a team.
Wizards- Gortat is nothing special.
Raptors- They win because of their backcourt, not Jonas.

Warriors- Center is their weakest position by far.
Spurs- Pau Gasol is 36 years old.
Rockets- Capela is nice, but not the reason they're elite.
Jazz- Okay, I'm jealous of Gobert.


I think between Len and Williams we can match up with traditional centers pretty well. We might not have the advantage most nights, but we're close enough to neutralize that position while optimizing the positions that matter more.

My ultimate hope is that Bender develops enough to become a huge weapon as a modern center. He's never going to be a traditional low-post beast, but that could be a positive, particularly if Chriss continues to improve his rim protection at the 4.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I like Chandler as an assistant coach, but that's a pretty expensive assistant coach. I have to say Williams and Len.

Naw. Its not expensive. They are below the salary floor. They have to spend that money regardless. Chandler becomes expensive only if the have to pay Len alot.

But, I still agree. Len/Williams. Youth and potential. Chandler can only decline from here.

 

[JCSunsfan]

The more I think about this the worse I feel. I like Williams but I'm not sure that he'll thrive as the starter once opponents start preparing for him.

Chandler has clearly started his decline. He was still racking up the boards but he was nailed to the floor most nights and frequently lost rebounds to athletic players that just a season ago would have been his. And his rim protection is almost non-existent. He's our best bet guarding the plodders but they're disappearing quickly.

We cannot go into another season with Tyson as the anticipated starter, it's depressing just thinking about it. I'd be fine with him as a backup or maybe even the third center but that still leaves us in need of a starter. And Len has failed to win that position despite opportunities.

I think this is simple. Chandler is done here. I do not think teams will be able to adjust to Williams as much as you think. He makes most of his impact off of garbage--quick cuts, put backs, and now mid-range floaters.

Chandler has started his decline and can only go down from here. He has to go. He can only stay if Len gets an unreasonable offer from another team.

I do not mind having Len start, having Williams come off the bench with substantial minutes. If we face a particularly mobile center, there is Bender or Chriss. I like these options.

If we can find an upgrade over Len, I am fine with that.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Feels like you are saying that none of the 3 are options.

And that could be true. The fact that Alan Williams is the best one of the three currently maybe proves that.

I just don't want the Suns to make a mistake by overpaying Len. He will be a bust for us if we keep him. I haven't felt this strongly about a player since the drafting of Kendall Marshall. Len should take the vet minimum and play for Pop cause he needs a lot of coaching in order for him to play wel in the league and the Suns have traditionally been among the very worst in the NBA at developing big men.

Len plays like he needs glasses or contacts or something. Its like he just does not see that well.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think this is simple. Chandler is done here. I do not think teams will be able to adjust to Williams as much as you think. He makes most of his impact off of garbage--quick cuts, put backs, and now mid-range floaters.

Chandler has started his decline and can only go down from here. He has to go. He can only stay if Len gets an unreasonable offer from another team.

I do not mind having Len start, having Williams come off the bench with substantial minutes. If we face a particularly mobile center, there is Bender or Chriss. I like these options.

If we can find an upgrade over Len, I am fine with that.

Actually I don't really have an opinion on it one way or the other. I'm just not counting on him until we see what good coaches take away from him and how he responds. I'm confident he can be effective as a backup, I'm hopeful he can be effective as a starter too.

 

[Yuma]

I am looking at Len needs to play facing the basket while Williams has those old school back to the basket moves. That gives you options on offense. I think Len is the weaker rebounder of the three just from a physicality and blocking out skills. The only thing I have against Chandler is his age. By the time this team reaches it's peak, Chandler will likely be gone.I guess with Len, you have to wonder if he is going to improve. If you think Len will get better, you go Len. If you think he's already peaked, maybe you move on.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I am looking at Len needs to play facing the basket while Williams has those old school back to the basket moves. That gives you options on offense. I think Len is the weaker rebounder of the three just from a physicality and blocking out skills. The only thing I have against Chandler is his age. By the time this team reaches it's peak, Chandler will likely be gone.I guess with Len, you have to wonder if he is going to improve. If you think Len will get better, you go Len. If you think he's already peaked, maybe you move on.

You're right that Len is the weakest rebounder of the 3 but I think his biggest rebounding problem is with his hands. He must lose 3 or 4 rebounds per game (when adjusted for starter minutes) to just his inability to hold onto the boards once he grabs onto them. I haven't noticed a real problem with blocking out but I can't say I've paid particular attention to it. Regardless, I'm fine with him as a rebounder even if he isn't at the level of the other two. He just can't stay on the court long enough to make those skills matter.

Chandler has always been a great rebounder although he's not rebounding outside of his area as well as he used to. Williams, though, is an animal on the boards. Once he improves boxing out and gains a better awareness of his teammates tendencies, he'll be among the league's best IMO.

 

[Yuma]

You're right that Len is the weakest rebounder of the 3 but I think his biggest rebounding problem is with his hands. He must lose 3 or 4 rebounds per game (when adjusted for starter minutes) to just his inability to hold onto the boards once he grabs onto them. I haven't noticed a real problem with blocking out but I can't say I've paid particular attention to it. Regardless, I'm fine with him as a rebounder even if he isn't at the level of the other two. He just can't stay on the court long enough to make those skills matter.

Chandler has always been a great rebounder although he's not rebounding outside of his area as well as he used to. Williams, though, is an animal on the boards. Once he improves boxing out and gains a better awareness of his teammates tendencies, he'll be among the league's best IMO.

My son and I have noticed Len loses the ball several times in a game when he has the ball in his hands. He also does not catch passes sent to him almost every game. I think he does have issues with his hands. Either they aren't strong enough, or he is trying to do something with the ball before he has possession of it, or he is moving the ball towards the people who take it away. You have to think Eddie Johnson has said something to him because he mentions almost every other game that Len needs to just hold the ball high away from guys.

 

[leclerc]

When Alex does have the ball he's a pretty good passer. His shot mechanics are also decent. I believe he's still going to get better. Hope he puts in plenty of work in the summer and stops going around saving people's lives or playing chess with his grandfather.

 

[pokerface]

When Alex does have the ball he's a pretty good passer. His shot mechanics are also decent. I believe he's still going to get better. Hope he puts in plenty of work in the summer and stops going around saving people's lives or playing chess with his grandfather.

Yeah like Reggie Miller was saying during the game about putting work in the offseason to make yourself stand out as a player. I don't think Len is putting the work in that's necessary to make a leap forward. Actually he looks like he regresses during the offseason hence some of his bad summer league games.

 

[JCSunsfan]

My son and I have noticed Len loses the ball several times in a game when he has the ball in his hands. He also does not catch passes sent to him almost every game. I think he does have issues with his hands. Either they aren't strong enough, or he is trying to do something with the ball before he has possession of it, or he is moving the ball towards the people who take it away. You have to think Eddie Johnson has said something to him because he mentions almost every other game that Len needs to just hold the ball high away from guys.

Interesting article on this subject.

http://jimburson.com/bad-basketball-hands-and-my-flat-thumb-theory/

BTW. Len's hands are so large that he handles the ball the way this article says NOT to do it. It puts the ball away from the palm and out on the the pad of the thumb making it more unstable in the hand.

 

[Yuma]

Interesting article on this subject.

http://jimburson.com/bad-basketball-hands-and-my-flat-thumb-theory/

BTW. Len's hands are so large that he handles the ball the way this article says NOT to do it. It puts the ball away from the palm and out on the the pad of the thumb making it more unstable in the hand.

Can you send that link to Len?

I have always held it flat thumb. I just assumed everyone held it that way.

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

When Alex does have the ball he's a pretty good passer. His shot mechanics are also decent. I believe he's still going to get better. Hope he puts in plenty of work in the summer and stops going around saving people's lives or playing chess with his grandfather.

Ive always said, big Lenny missed his true calling of being the "Worlds tallest lifeguard.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Can you send that link to Len?

I have always held it flat thumb. I just assumed everyone held it that way.

I haven't because my hands are too small to be stable that way. I think big guys think they can get away with it because they can palm it better that way. But with two hands, flat palms is better.

I wish I knew how to send it to the Suns.

 

[Bert]

This is tougher than I thought.

Len is so frustrating. He still flashes occasionally but IDK if he's ever going to bloom.

Chandler has a managable salary, can still contribute and he's a veteran leader. I dont like leaving the center position up to Len and Williams so I said Williams/Chandler but I'm not that happy about it.