Which RB should be the odd man out?
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The new guy who I can't even remember his name.
az jam
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I would dump Hightower.
Buckybird
Hoist the Lombardi Trophy
What? 15 a game.
I still hate how Wiz under-utilizes the skills both THT & Beanie have & neglects a poruous Oline. I still think Beanie will be a star somewhere in the NFL given the opportunity & #34 is still is solid as they come, thus I didn't like the selection of Williams. IMO LSH needs more touches also. Maybe the selection of a FB will mean more running, but can also see Wiz chunking running the rock at the first sign of struggle as usual.
im still shocked we are giving up on one of our 2 main guys.
joeshmo
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Hard to answer. On one hand you have a RB with the most fumbles per touch over the last two seasons, and top 5 in terms of recieving drops, and according to footballoustiders(it was them or profootballfocus) highly overrated as a pass blocker last year. On the other hand you have a guy who cant stay healthy and rumors of not having a passion to play the game.
Still not surprised one bit they drafted a RB high.
Still not surprised one bit they drafted a RB high.
Wells. He's the only one with any trade value.
Just a really strange situation. From combining for 1,391 yards rushing, at a 4.4 average, and 15 TDs plus another 571 yards receiving to the Cards feeling they needed to use a high 2nd round draft pick on another RB in just one season.
Just a really strange situation. From combining for 1,391 yards rushing, at a 4.4 average, and 15 TDs plus another 571 yards receiving to the Cards feeling they needed to use a high 2nd round draft pick on another RB in just one season.
Bobcat
Registered User
Wells for Palmer Straight-up. Perfect trade for both teams. Wells goes home and Palmer comes to heal as Kurt did when he came here to AZ.
BOBCAT
My opinion is to keep Beanie and let THT go. THT doesn't run with any kind of power and he fumbles too much. I just think Beanie has a higher potential. I like THT, he's had some good games as a Cardinal but I've seen way too many plays where he could have made one cut or break one tackle and it COULD have been a big play, but instead he got his head caved in like Max Hall.
I like a Beanie/Williams/LSH trio at running back. Just my opinion.
However, if the Bengals want Beanie for Palmer, adios Mr. Wells. Although I'm sure they'll want much more than that.
I like a Beanie/Williams/LSH trio at running back. Just my opinion.
However, if the Bengals want Beanie for Palmer, adios Mr. Wells. Although I'm sure they'll want much more than that.
Huh? He may not be a premier back in the NFL, but he has plenty of power. My problem with THT if I had to find one is that he seems to be a jack of all trades, master of none.
I just dont see it when he collides with people. THT always seems to take the majority of the impact. He's bowled a few guys over but he gets knocked back more often than not. I didn't say he was the least powerful back in the NFL or even on the team.
I say you need glassEs.
Your worried about Timmys lack of big plays and use that as a reason to jet him but you want Wells? Has ever even made a big play?
Actually it should be fairly simple. Whose skill set does RWilliams most closely match. That's the guy who will be the odd man out.
Unless RWilliams is the next Matt Leinart, Cody Brown or Buster Davis.
Unless RWilliams is the next Matt Leinart, Cody Brown or Buster Davis.
Or wendell bryant, skillet hands, levi brown or raynoch thompson.
Otherwise, I agree. It's too soon to say right now. Hopefully there's a full camp to sort it out. Thing is, Beanie probably has the most trade value. So, if we can get something for him even if he's better than THT he might be the guy to go.
Or wendell bryant, skillet hands, levi brown or raynoch thompson.
Otherwise, I agree. It's too soon to say right now. Hopefully there's a full camp to sort it out. Thing is, Beanie probably has the most trade value. So, if we can get something for him even if he's better than THT he might be the guy to go.
Hey at least Levi and Small Play Ray actually have played more than a handful of snaps for the Cardinals.
Under CKW Leinart,CBrown, and Davis, 1st,2nd,and 3rd round draft picks respectively, played in only 17 games out of a potential 160. Will Davis our 6th round pick in 2009 has played in 21.
My feelings exactly on Wells as trade material. We're doing the Desperation Samba at QB right now and dancing faster as each day of the lockout passes. If Wells has to go to for us to get a QB so be it. And if that QB turns out to be the guy we need it really won't matter if Wells goes on to rush for 10,000 yards in his NFL career.
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LittleDavis
Hall of Famer
I hope we have a three headed monster.
GOOOOOOOO CARDSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
GOOOOOOOO CARDSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
we will...with LSH
I like both THT and Beanie. I think both have been underutilized so it's hard to tell who should stay and who should go.
I think the Cards will keep Beanie. Should they? I don't know, but I like to think so. (Sorry Shane. )
I think the Cards will keep Beanie. Should they? I don't know, but I like to think so. (Sorry Shane.
)
I say you need glassEs.
Your worried about Timmys lack of big plays and use that as a reason to jet him but you want Wells? Has ever even made a big play?
No stupid head my eyes is workin just fine! It's not about big plays, I just think Beanie can consistantly break tackles to get a few more yards as opposed to THT who gets dropped pretty easilly. I just think side by side, Beanie would be more consistant. And like I said, if it takes Beanie to get us a QB then he can pack his bag and I'll buy a THT jersey.
I dont dislike THT I just think Beanie is better. PS I love you Starsky
Cardiac
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Thinking out loud here but remember the game when Wells was out and then Timmy got banged up (IIRC) so Hyphen is put in and starts making some plays and the running game gets traction. Then Hyphen gets hit and is obviously wearing down so we have to back of running the ball.
What this tells me is that both Wells and THT weren't finding the holes that hyphen was able to find. This also helps explain why we drafted a RB or at least didn't push Williams down on the board with the need factor being weighed in.
joeshmo
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Something else to factor into the equation -
Wells has 3 years left on his contract at under a mill a year (some incentives are in there though but less then 2 mill total)
Hightower is a restricted free agent.
LSH has one more year and one more year of restricted free agency.
Wells contract also makes him a higher commodity to trade but it also makes him a higher commodity to keep.
Wells has 3 years left on his contract at under a mill a year (some incentives are in there though but less then 2 mill total)
Hightower is a restricted free agent.
LSH has one more year and one more year of restricted free agency.
Wells contract also makes him a higher commodity to trade but it also makes him a higher commodity to keep.
Krangodnzr
Captain of Team Conner
We keep all five RBs (Williams, THT, Wells, LSH, and Sherman in no particular order) if all look good in training camp. IMO the only locks of the 5 to make the roster are Williams and LSH because Williams is a rookie and LSH brings ST value.
I'm admittedly excited about Williams. He doesn't show that ooh's and aah's speed that you look for, but he's got very good run vision and he runs hard for a smaller back.
IMO those are traits that Beanie lacks, or at least he hasn't shown it so far. Beanie is a physical specimen, but posters saying he's hard to take down are smoking crack, Beanie falls down with the slightest of contact. THT runs hard and is harder to take down than Beanie (he also produces more big plays because he doesn't fall down with shoestring tackles), but his fumbling problems and poor run vision relegate him more to a backup caliber player, and that's assuming his fumbling issues begin to fix themself. If he continues to fumble at the rate he does now, THT will be out of the league in a few years.
We have some talent a RB; If Beanie can learn to stay on his feet better, he has legit homerun potential and has good size and power and Ryan Williams has great run vision and toughness. The problem is, we don't have the offensive line that can consistently punish a defense with the running game. Levi Brown was the worst starting tackle in the NFL last season by most objective (statistical) measures last season. We don't know what we're going to get out of Hadnot or someone else at LG (Hadnot has excelled as a run blocker in the past though). Sendlein is more of a finesse center. Lutui is real up and down; looks very good at times, but is also prone to taking games off. Keith IMO is the best run blocker on the line (and Bridges was very good in relief) but he missed numerous assignments as a passblocker so he's exactly a sure thing.
I do agree with those on the board that continuity is the answer and that a massive overhaul won't fix the line right away and may actually cause it to regress. IMO we look to replace Levi Brown and then resign Sendlein and Lutui. A propose line of Gaither, Hadnot, Sendlein, Lutui, and Keith is a pretty good line moving forward. If we were to sign Gaither, next draft we need to find at least one good line prospect, and start to draft a guy nearly every year.
The lack of quality behind our starting five is alarming and could be devastating with only an injury or two. Bridges is the only guy who has proven that he can be relied upon to start in this league, and as crazy as this sounds, if we don't bring in a LT I would start Bridges at LT over Levi Brown.
Furthermore, if we don't address QB the running game will continue to suck. I read posters on this board act as if we sucked running the ball because of a lack of attempts, but from my eyeball test, I saw a team that was decently effective considering the defensive fronts we faced. Defenses consistently brought seven and eight men into the box, daring Anderson/Hall/Skelton to beat the run blitz with a pass and they consistently failed to find the open man with only a few defenders in coverage.
Few teams can run in those situations, especially teams that aren't run oriented in the first place.
I'm admittedly excited about Williams. He doesn't show that ooh's and aah's speed that you look for, but he's got very good run vision and he runs hard for a smaller back.
IMO those are traits that Beanie lacks, or at least he hasn't shown it so far. Beanie is a physical specimen, but posters saying he's hard to take down are smoking crack, Beanie falls down with the slightest of contact. THT runs hard and is harder to take down than Beanie (he also produces more big plays because he doesn't fall down with shoestring tackles), but his fumbling problems and poor run vision relegate him more to a backup caliber player, and that's assuming his fumbling issues begin to fix themself. If he continues to fumble at the rate he does now, THT will be out of the league in a few years.
We have some talent a RB; If Beanie can learn to stay on his feet better, he has legit homerun potential and has good size and power and Ryan Williams has great run vision and toughness. The problem is, we don't have the offensive line that can consistently punish a defense with the running game. Levi Brown was the worst starting tackle in the NFL last season by most objective (statistical) measures last season. We don't know what we're going to get out of Hadnot or someone else at LG (Hadnot has excelled as a run blocker in the past though). Sendlein is more of a finesse center. Lutui is real up and down; looks very good at times, but is also prone to taking games off. Keith IMO is the best run blocker on the line (and Bridges was very good in relief) but he missed numerous assignments as a passblocker so he's exactly a sure thing.
I do agree with those on the board that continuity is the answer and that a massive overhaul won't fix the line right away and may actually cause it to regress. IMO we look to replace Levi Brown and then resign Sendlein and Lutui. A propose line of Gaither, Hadnot, Sendlein, Lutui, and Keith is a pretty good line moving forward. If we were to sign Gaither, next draft we need to find at least one good line prospect, and start to draft a guy nearly every year.
The lack of quality behind our starting five is alarming and could be devastating with only an injury or two. Bridges is the only guy who has proven that he can be relied upon to start in this league, and as crazy as this sounds, if we don't bring in a LT I would start Bridges at LT over Levi Brown.
Furthermore, if we don't address QB the running game will continue to suck. I read posters on this board act as if we sucked running the ball because of a lack of attempts, but from my eyeball test, I saw a team that was decently effective considering the defensive fronts we faced. Defenses consistently brought seven and eight men into the box, daring Anderson/Hall/Skelton to beat the run blitz with a pass and they consistently failed to find the open man with only a few defenders in coverage.
Few teams can run in those situations, especially teams that aren't run oriented in the first place.
But that didn't happen in 2009. 793 yards 4.4 per attempt and 7 TDs. Projecting to 19 carries a game which is what the top RBs get that would be 1,298 yards and 12 TDs.
Guess who had those numbers last season? Adrian Peterson.
Sophomore slump? I don't know maybe DCs saw on film that if you hit Beanie low he'd go right down but you would think we would have heard some writer or radio/tv person mention it. Anyway the Wells we saw in 2010 didn't look anything like the rookie we got from Ohio State.
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And that's the reason I'd keep him over THT. Unless we can trade him straight up for Kolb or someone else is willing to give us 1st round value I'd keep him and gamble that he'll show more of what he did his rookie year. It rarely makes sense to trade a player when his value is down.
Steve
