Whiz' Post Game Presser and Serious Grimm speculation

[Bodha]

I noticed in Whiz' post game presser that while listing the negatives from the game he either: didnt mention/ or glanced over the O line.

It was the elephant in the room, and he was more into the missed opportunities, special team, and drops.



And, is it just me, or did anyone else pick up the vibe that hes hanging this on Michael Floyd? He spent alot of time talking about the WRs and drops and it really really felt like he was insinuating Floyd as being the catalyst of this loss.

If so, hes lost all my respect.

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Grimm

I know as fans we are like "RAAHH We want Grimms head!"

But in a practical sense, thatd never happen. Until possibly tonight. What are the realistic chances Grimm might be fired?


Im thinking as a publicity move. They got historically embarassed on TNF. They need to hang this on someone. Why not the Oline coach of the worse O line in 9 years?

 

[Chopper0080]

I noticed in Whiz' post game presser that while listing the negatives from the game he either: didnt mention/ or glanced over the O line.

It was the elephant in the room, and he was more into the missed opportunities, special team, and drops.



And, is it just me, or did anyone else pick up the vibe that hes hanging this on Michael Floyd? He spent alot of time talking about the WRs and drops and it really really felt like he was insinuating Floyd as being the catalyst of this loss.

If so, hes lost all my respect.

---------

Grimm

I know as fans we are like "RAAHH We want Grimms head!"

But in a practical sense, thatd never happen. Until possibly tonight. What are the realistic chances Grimm might be fired?


Im thinking as a publicity move. They got historically embarassed on TNF. They need to hang this on someone. Why not the Oline coach of the worse O line in 9 years?

When opportunities are limited, you have to make plays. Our wide receivers missed some today. I'm sure Whis would have harped on Kolb missing some throws, but Kolb was killed during the game and Whis would just be kicking his limp corpse.

 

[kerouac9]

Grimm stays here as long as Ken Whisenhunt stays here.

 

[WarnerHOF]

russ grimm is to ken whiz what bob slowik is to mikee shanahan. whiz might lose his job one day because of this relationship

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

It's been an elephant in the room since 2010 and it has regressed

 

[DeAnna]

Whis NEVER throws his coaches under the bus. Much less Grimm - they go back a long way. I've never heard him saying (a la Andy Reid) "it starts with the coaching, including me ..."

He does throw the players under the bus sometimes, though.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Doucet had some plays today I think he should have made a play on, so you cannot just say Floyd...even Fitz had a drop, did that really happen LOL

 

[moklerman]

Not sure if any of you had the stomach to watch the post-game show on the NFLN but at one point, Faulk leans over to Warner and says: "...and that's exactly why you retired, right?". Warner said: "Yup."

Not sure if they were being specific to the Cardinals and their continuing problems with pass protection since then or just Kolb getting beat up in general but I got the feeling that Faulk and Warner were relating to conversations they've had about Warner's situation.

My point being, I agree that Grimm needs to go. Coaching can and does make a huge difference. Look at the Rams with Boudreau compared to Loney the last few years. They have total garbage in terms of talent on the o-line right now but they have given up only 3 sacks total to two of the best pass rushing teams the last two weeks.

 

[clif]

Not sure if any of you had the stomach to watch the post-game show on the NFLN but at one point, Faulk leans over to Warner and says: "...and that's exactly why you retired, right?". Warner said: "Yup."

Not sure if they were being specific to the Cardinals and their continuing problems with pass protection since then or just Kolb getting beat up in general but I got the feeling that Faulk and Warner were relating to conversations they've had about Warner's situation.

My point being, I agree that Grimm needs to go. Coaching can and does make a huge difference. Look at the Rams with Boudreau compared to Loney the last few years. They have total garbage in terms of talent on the o-line right now but they have given up only 3 sacks total to two of the best pass rushing teams the last two weeks.

I like Warner as an analyst, but his analysis of the Cardinals is biased. He is the one who took a 20 million dollar golden parachute and forced this teams hand when it came to him and his talk of retirement. I put a small part of the blame of the last few years squarely in his lap.

 

[DoTheDew]

Grimm stays here as long as Ken Whisenhunt stays here.

Agreed unless the FO tells Whiz if he wants to keep his job Grimm has to go.

 

[moklerman]

I like Warner as an analyst, but his analysis of the Cardinals is biased. He is the one who took a 20 million dollar golden parachute and forced this teams hand when it came to him and his talk of retirement. I put a small part of the blame of the last few years squarely in his lap.

You'll have to expand on that because I'm not sure to what you're referring.

If it's Warner's last contract then I'm not sure that I'd agree that it hindered the Cardinals or their o-line in any significant way.

Though I am pretty sure that the reason Warner didn't come back for the last year of that contract was because he was getting blown up on a regular basis. And with no improvements to the o-line on the horizon, especially if Grimm is as Teflon-coated as he seems, Warner said thanks but no thanks.

I am curious why you think what happened 3 years ago is affecting how they're blocking now. It seems the constant is Grimm and the protection never gets any better but I admit, I don't follow along as closely as some.

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

If Warner would have ever took the beating that Kevin did tonight, he would have fumbled at least 4 or 5 times. Kolb was great tonight considering. He missed some throws and didn't spot some open receivers, but no one stepped up and made any big plays to help him out either. I honestly think our whole team was tired, especially our OL. We had the ball for so long and so many plays tonight, our OL was just pooped as well as beat up, I'm sure.

The OL will look a bit better after 10 days rest.

 

[moklerman]

If Warner would have ever took the beating that Kevin did tonight, he would have fumbled at least 4 or 5 times. Kolb was great tonight considering. He missed some throws and didn't spot some open receivers, but no one stepped up and made any big plays to help him out either. I honestly think our whole team was tired, especially our OL. We had the ball for so long and so many plays tonight, our OL was just pooped as well as beat up, I'm sure.

The OL will look a bit better after 10 days rest.

I agree but wouldn't you say that part of Warner's game was pre-snap reads and getting the ball out quickly? Hard to say if he would have handled the game the same way Kolb did.

Warner had his share of LONG days though so it's possible.

 

[THESMEL]

well

I've been saying dropping back 60 times to 15 runs is isane- Of course no QB can survive- Healthy RB or not same stuff happens- Folks defend it is because we were behind- We did while ahead- behind Hell or Hightower.
Kurt or no Kurt.

We had some remblence of an effort to run and won a hell of alot of last minute games lately- I don't want to keep saying this week in and week out for 5 years but It is the only truth out there. We were 1 score behind
and threw 5 to 1.

No we didn't run well - I doubt if we practiced or even cared about the run game timing all week? no quick run plays handing off shallow- only plays that hand off deep in the backfield with pass rushers coming like dogs in heat every down.

I've always defended Grimm and blamed Miller- Whiz and Haley. Now Rod Graves comes out and says we are finally more like the Steelers that they envisioned when they hired Whiz- mentally tough - Were only mentally tough overcoming our own offensive coaches stupidity.

We had a 3 score lead running Beanie against GB in the playoffs - 14 stupid plays for 91 yards- before We turned it into a pass fest- that next Saints playoff game we ran 10 times just like the Superbowl- and Kurt got knocked out for life- that is why he didn't come back- That is why Kolbs mouth is bleeding- Da -Max- skelton fail.

Not because we could not run like now- BECAUSE WE HAD NO WILL TO RUN - We want to win them all the easy way- with no patients- one dimensional- just ignore the fundementals of professional footbal and go right to the superbowl. glory, honor, jewlery-

It doesn't work like that - We just got destroyed by the stupid rams on National TV- Michael Irving is cackling up the airwaves about what a sorry bunch of losers we are and will remain. aND I CAN'T DISAGREE with him-we won 5 ot games in this stretch - most by the skin of our teeth-

Dum dee dum dum gonna throw the football and hope we hit 1 out of 3 for a first down- later on in the game we may try to hit 1 of 4 for downs for a TD! Thats our freaking game plan! NFL defenses will not stand for that- they get paid too!

The Rams beat us straight up - solid- We aint got Levi or Beanie to blame
Our defense did not cover up the stench of our offense tonight- We need a new offense- this one has fallen and can't gt it up.- life alert.

You'll have to expand on that because I'm not sure to what you're referring.

If it's Warner's last contract then I'm not sure that I'd agree that it hindered the Cardinals or their o-line in any significant way.

Though I am pretty sure that the reason Warner didn't come back for the last year of that contract was because he was getting blown up on a regular basis. And with no improvements to the o-line on the horizon, especially if Grimm is as Teflon-coated as he seems, Warner said thanks but no thanks.

I am curious why you think what happened 3 years ago is affecting how they're blocking now. It seems the constant is Grimm and the protection never gets any better but I admit, I don't follow along as closely as some.

 

[D-Dogg]

It's just beyond maddening that they can sit there, roll film over and over again and NOT address the Oline. for years. and years. and years.

They don't even freaking try. They half ass it. They build depth EVERYWHERE. They draft studs at the key positions.

Then they fill arguably the most important five positions with journeyman, late round rookies, UDFAs and marginal free agents. Coached by a freaking idiot who watches the superbowl halftime show because he loves Bruce rather than coaching up his guys in the most important game of their lives.

smmfh

 

[THESMEL]

ok

do you think a top oline could survive this 1 dimensial game plan? Maybe for a game but not for 5 years? We had a great oline when we went to the SB and playoffs- maybe the best 1 dimensional oline I ever seen-

Our starting tailback THT had 143 carries both years- Now lets see who makes that decision- or the decision to drop back 60 times this game-
it is not the oline or all on the oline- they are tasked with executing the impossible.

It's just beyond maddening that they can sit there, roll film over and over again and NOT address the Oline. for years. and years. and years.

They don't even freaking try. They half ass it. They build depth EVERYWHERE. They draft studs at the key positions.

Then they fill arguably the most important five positions with journeyman, late round rookies, UDFAs and marginal free agents. Coached by a freaking idiot who watches the superbowl halftime show because he loves Bruce rather than coaching up his guys in the most important game of their lives.

smmfh

 

[D-Dogg]

do you think a top oline could survive this 1 dimensial game plan? Maybe for a game but not for 5 years? We had a great oline when we went to the SB and playoffs- maybe the best 1 dimensional oline I ever seen-

Our starting tailback THT had 143 carries both years- Now lets see who makes that decision- or the decision to drop back 60 times this game-
it is not the oline or all on the oline- they are tasked with executing the impossible.

The gameplan is fine if the oline blocks. Bottom line. Stop bitching about Whis and playcalling. The oline sucks out loud. The super bowl oline was FAR from great...Warner had a super fast release and loved to beat the blitz, but he got rocked a lot and we ran decently, not great. That was an abberation, and not a "great" or even good oline.

Block. That's all.

 

[THESMEL]

what

We dropped back 60 times for nine sacks and interception - with 15 runs
No I will not quit complaining about Whiz and the playcalling- levi held up for 5 years while Cardinal fans piled on like he was the antichrist-

The game plan is fine if the Oline executes the impossible- Kurt Warner was not fine- he surrendered to the onslaught with a year and 11 Millon on his contract- do you remember the 10 rush game when the Saints took his freaking head off and leinart came in to finish the half- Kurt admitted that on NFLN tonight. THAT IS WHY HE LEFT!

Whiz's addiction to the pass and allergy to the run through OC- PGC- RGC- self and new yes man OC has destroyed more players careers than Kurt Warner's last year- and that is just the way it is.

How about DA, Hall and Skelton, Bartel looked alot like Matt Leinarts broken Collarbone and Warners casted arm in Whiz's rookie season! You know where we got Tim Hasselback and Tim Rattay off the couch to come save us 5 games into the season! what the hell are you looking at?

The gameplan is fine if the oline blocks. Bottom line. Stop bitching about Whis and playcalling. The oline sucks out loud. The super bowl oline was FAR from great...Warner had a super fast release and loved to beat the blitz, but he got rocked a lot and we ran decently, not great. That was an abberation, and not a "great" or even good oline.

Block. That's all.

 

[schutd]

SMEL, I just dont understand how you cant see that had we rushed 45 times last night we would have netted 90 yards. The OL cant pass protect, they cant run block. At least with the pass, you have an extra split second to allow the QB to try and find a receiver before he gets his head torn off. i agree with you entirely on how its supposed to work. Run the ball, set up the pass. But running square into a an OL thats 3 yards behind the LOS is a recipe for a game full of 3 and outs.

We have no choice. we have to pass. and pray.

And then we need to spend EVERY SINGLE PICK next season on an OLman.

 

[moklerman]

SMEL, I just dont understand how you cant see that had we rushed 45 times last night we would have netted 90 yards.

What's disappointing to me about this lack of balance is that I actually gave credit to Whis for, what I thought at the time, teaching Warner a lesson. Remember the games leading up to the playoff run? Each successive game they were getting more and more pass-happy and I THOUGHT, since they had their playoff spot wrapped up, Whis was sort of letting Warner see what would happen if they passed every down like he wanted.

Then the last game they got Edge involved again and re-established a little equilibrium and went on that great run.

But Kolb was left hung out to dry last night. I mean, come up with just about any suggestion to beat an aggressive pass rush and they DIDN'T try it. The plan seemed to be, drop 7 steps and stand on your spot. But, maybe like the atrocity that was the Seattle/GB game that was the straw that finally got the regular officials back, maybe 17 sacks in 5 days will get something done for AZ's o-line.

 

[cardpa]

SMEL, I just dont understand how you cant see that had we rushed 45 times last night we would have netted 90 yards. The OL cant pass protect, they cant run block. At least with the pass, you have an extra split second to allow the QB to try and find a receiver before he gets his head torn off. i agree with you entirely on how its supposed to work. Run the ball, set up the pass. But running square into a an OL thats 3 yards behind the LOS is a recipe for a game full of 3 and outs.

We have no choice. we have to pass. and pray.

And then we need to spend EVERY SINGLE PICK next season on an OLman.

Which will never happen. We wasted a pick this year by picking Floyd who has contributed almost nothing to date. I could care less how talented he may be and how good he may be in the future. I also don't want to hear the crap about how it takes a couple of years for a WR to acclimate to the NFL. Jones in Atlanta and others have been much more productive in their first year. This team needed an infusion of talent in the Oline and they missed getting it with a first round pick.

Whiz and company will never, ever, ever and I mean ever get the Oline right. It is a patchwork mess that is the Achilles heel of this team. 17 sacks in 2 games. It's a feat in itself that Kolb can still walk. At the rate they are giving up sacks they will set a record that may never be broken.

The play calling is atrocious. How in the hell do you call a play on 4th and goal that doesn't result in the ball being thrown into the endzone? How do you not get the first down on 3rd and short to ensure you have a fresh set of downs when you are in the 4th quarter and behind? How do you not call a timeout with 4 minutes left after you stopped the Rams on 3rd down and instead let them run off another 34 seconds then the Rams call a timeout and the resulting play runs off even more time?

How do you stop running the ball after the first offensive series when you had some success running it?

This is so frustrating to watch a team that could do so much more if it was ran better with even a modicum of common sense. You could have Tom Brady, Arlan Foster, Fitz and Calvin Johnson on offense and it would make no difference because for whatever reason Whiz and company doesn't understand that the Offense begins with a offensive line that can actually run block a little and pass block a bit. Of course considering the offensive scheme and play calling it may not matter either way.

Does anyone really think that guys like Brady, Rogers, Manning, and Brees would not be in Whiz's ear about leaving unblocked pass rushers to come blowing in like the next hurricane so they can label them and knock them into next week? They would all be heading out of town on the next bus to better pastures. We all know why Manning didn't come here, he wanted to play a few more years not be forced into retirement due to injuries.

Yea I am a little bit pissed that this team could be so much more if certain things were addressed and knowing that will never happen with the present group in charge. It's a shame that this defense is being wasted because the offense is such a mess and it's not the fault of the players.

 

[conraddobler]

There's a theory that you use coaching like this.

Areas of strength on a team in terms of talent should be at positions you don't have the strongest coaching in and the strongest coaching should be saddled with the least talent or the rawest if nothing else to leverage your coaching the most.

That seems ssomewhat logical if you're being realistic about your coaches true abilities.

Coaches should be loyal to staff when they deserve it, the loyalty is commendable right up until it sinks you because you were blinded by it.

 

[conraddobler]

What's disappointing to me about this lack of balance is that I actually gave credit to Whis for, what I thought at the time, teaching Warner a lesson. Remember the games leading up to the playoff run? Each successive game they were getting more and more pass-happy and I THOUGHT, since they had their playoff spot wrapped up, Whis was sort of letting Warner see what would happen if they passed every down like he wanted.

Then the last game they got Edge involved again and re-established a little equilibrium and went on that great run.

But Kolb was left hung out to dry last night. I mean, come up with just about any suggestion to beat an aggressive pass rush and they DIDN'T try it. The plan seemed to be, drop 7 steps and stand on your spot. But, maybe like the atrocity that was the Seattle/GB game that was the straw that finally got the regular officials back, maybe 17 sacks in 5 days will get something done for AZ's o-line.

They did try it late in the 4th quarter.

Ran one pretty good screen and one pretty good draw.

I'm not sure WTH is going on with these idiots, if they think they are saving stuff for later in the game and thus we don't see the adjustments earlier, it's possible they are thinking like this that they want to save that stuff for crucial moments, some OC's think a lot like this they will setup stuff all game just to get one good play later on.

That's not a bad idea in itself but it's delusional if you're doing this to let your QB get murdered just to setup a nice screen that comes too little too late.

If that's their thinking it's stupid, if they aren't aware of all you said and just dimly later on half heartedly throw in those plays later on without realizing they needed to earlier they're are idiots too.

This is why I can't get on the Whiz love festival some are on, he's ultimately responsible for the strategy the team takes on both sides of the ball, he's got to tell people we need more screens and draws, if he dosen't do that or lets the OC wait it out while his QB is brutalized he's the problem, HE IS THE PROBLEM.

 

[dogpoo32]

do you think a top oline could survive this 1 dimensial game plan? Maybe for a game but not for 5 years? We had a great oline when we went to the SB and playoffs- maybe the best 1 dimensional oline I ever seen-

Our starting tailback THT had 143 carries both years- Now lets see who makes that decision- or the decision to drop back 60 times this game-
it is not the oline or all on the oline- they are tasked with executing the impossible.

The game plan can work. You can see glimpses. Receivers are open, no time to throw or Kolb misses. 17 sacks in 2 games is absolutely unacceptable.

There was nowhere to run, so attempting to would only result in lost yardage. There is no reason that there is a defender on our RB as soon as he touches the ball.

Both of these problems point to a broken offensive line. Broken both in coaching and personnel. We will never fully see the potential of this offense, or these players, until the offensive line is fixed.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I noticed in Whiz' post game presser that while listing the negatives from the game he either: didnt mention/ or glanced over the O line.

It was the elephant in the room, and he was more into the missed opportunities, special team, and drops.



And, is it just me, or did anyone else pick up the vibe that hes hanging this on Michael Floyd? He spent alot of time talking about the WRs and drops and it really really felt like he was insinuating Floyd as being the catalyst of this loss.

If so, hes lost all my respect.

---------

Grimm

I know as fans we are like "RAAHH We want Grimms head!"

But in a practical sense, thatd never happen. Until possibly tonight. What are the realistic chances Grimm might be fired?


Im thinking as a publicity move. They got historically embarassed on TNF. They need to hang this on someone. Why not the Oline coach of the worse O line in 9 years?

Where's the quote or reference, that in any way supports serious speculation on Grimm's future?