Who do the Cards hire if Whis is fired

[52brandon]

Yeah Brandon I never understood the Reich/McNulty backwards coaching either.
I highly doubt Horton is back next year even if he gets a big pay raise, unless he's the HC.

so be it. Make him HC then. Like I said, I think Whiz lost this team anyways. That was just assuming he didn't. He can still make sure the D is on point as HC. I think he would be better for the offense in the fact that he will actually let his OC do his job too, unlike Whiz. I hope they figure it out this offseason. I think we have a very good roster for the most part and with a few additions there along with a complete overhaul in how the offense is run, we shouldn't be far away from a very good football team. We'll see though

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Marty Schottenheimer
Brian Kelly
David Shaw

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

Chris Petersen. Not sure if he could be lured away, but he has proven he is able to win big without dominant athletes (often the hardest adjustment to make for college coaches coming to the NFL).

 

[AZCB34]

The question is would it please everyone enough if the fired Grimm and Miller brought a true proven OC and OL coach and left Whiz at HC and somehow landed a QB in off season? Would you still be pissed or would that be enough to calm you?

Lame duck coach cannot bring in a "proven" OC and OL coach and it will be almost as difficult to land any decent QB for the same reason. I don't see any way Whiz gets his option picked up so you either fire him or pick up the option. Cards will probably let him dangle as lame duck so they get something for their investment in him.

 

[vinnymac]

Sean Peyton.

 

[52brandon]

Lame duck coach cannot bring in a "proven" OC and OL coach and it will be almost as difficult to land any decent QB for the same reason. I don't see any way Whiz gets his option picked up so you either fire him or pick up the option. Cards will probably let him dangle as lame duck so they get something for their investment in him.

basically my thoughts at this point. How Grimm has a job is so far beyond comprehension. Miller gets the play-calling duties stripped, but still gets a check? Why? He's like Milton in "Office Space", they need to "fix the glitch and let it work itself out". Then having a QB coach coaching our WRs and a WR coach coaching our QBs further adds to the WTF-ness of his decisions. But his bringing in of Horton, a move widely criticized, was a huge risk that paid off unbelievably well. That is, until Horton takes his job

 

[conraddobler]

There's never been a team that needs Marty S more than this team but he's gotta be getting up there.

The best plan for Marty is to routinely kidnap him come playoff time and tie him in a closet, not sure that'll go over well with Marty but it'd probably work.

 

[cardpa]

Bill O'Brian but I don't think he leaves PSU. With what he did with the number of defections he had at PSU on top of all the inuries they had and to improve the team the way he did I think says a lot about his ability as a HC.

 

[PACardsFan]

There's never been a team that needs Marty S more than this team but he's gotta be getting up there.

The best plan for Marty is to routinely kidnap him come playoff time and tie him in a closet, not sure that'll go over well with Marty but it'd probably work.

Marty S is definitely one of the most underrated HC's of all time. If Marty were a younger man, he'd be my choice!!!! I know his playoff record was awful, but he had some of the most bizarre bad luck I've ever seen a coach have at the end of a few of those losses. Marty bandaided NOTHING! He started from scratch with most of his teams & they just kept getting better. The Chargers REALLY, REALLY screwed up letting him go. Clone him NOW!

 

[JS22]

HC - Ray Horton
OC - Norv Turner
QB - Alex Smith

You heard it from me first.

Why they haven't promoted Horton to HC for the final 3 games is totally beyond me. I can see Smith wanting to come here to stick it to the Niners and bringing Turner with him. Hasn't he said that Turner is the best coach he has ever worked with?

Of course the Cardinals will somehow screw this up by firing Whiz, letting Horton leave to be a HC elsewhere, and making a panic hire since all of the good candidates don't want to be a part of this mess.

 

[conraddobler]

Marty S is definitely one of the most underrated HC's of all time. If Marty were a younger man, he'd be my choice!!!! I know his playoff record was awful, but he had some of the most bizarre bad luck I've ever seen a coach have at the end of a few of those losses. Marty bandaided NOTHING! He started from scratch with most of his teams & they just kept getting better. The Chargers REALLY, REALLY screwed up letting him go. Clone him NOW!

Clone him and never let him meet John Elway's clone and I think you might have one of the best coaches of all time.

I have a firm belief that John Elway beating him in the playoffs with a much inferior team around Elway, that scarred the guy so deep he never recovered from it and just messed up his psyche in the playoffs.

Or if you really want to have fun put Elway's clone on a Marty clone coached team they'd win like 8 SB's, I'm not kidding.

 

[desertdawg]

We done tried the clone thing, it failed.

 

[PACardsFan]

it would please me. But the question is whether or not it would please the players. It seems apparent to me that Whiz lost his team. Will they respect him again next year if the rest of the coaching staff (minus Horton, assuming he doesn't leave anyways) is canned? That's my biggest question

I'd like to see:

GM: Graves out, Keim in
HC: if the team can give him 100% of their trust again keep Whiz and give Horton a lot more control with a lot more money to keep him around
DC: keep Horton. And his entire staff of D assistants, unless he feels otherwise
Lott and Alosi stay as strength and conditioning coaches. I think there's no problems there

Now all the changes...
OC: Miller gone, run out of the state. And Norv Turner in
OL: Grimm also run out of town. Hire Juan Castillo. He needs a job and has experience
Chad Grimm is Offensive Quality Control Coach? He should be shot. There's no "quality" on O. NONE
Switch John McNulty and Frank Reich. We have a guy with WR coaching experience coaching the QBs (and they don't look too good lol) and a guy with QB coaching experience coaching the WRs (who also don't look good. Even watched Fitz and Roberts drop some balls that were right in their hands this year)

It's obvious that I really like Whiz & sincerely hope he's back next year, BUT your post has much merit. No matter how good a coach may or may not be, his success will depend on the team buying into his plan. How well this team responds to last week's debacle will determine whether Whiz is back or not. The reason Whiz is in trouble is because even if the team is still with him, the offense just doesn't have ANYTHING to respond with. The D is pretty good, but not nearly as good as some on this board project it to be. But, they are mentally, physically & emotionally spent from being on the field way too much. Whiz will have to pull a rabbit out of his hat in order for this team to even be competitive down the stretch. Kudos to him if he can do that. If he can't, then I won't be surprised if he's canned. The problem is that he's our best option for this team moving forward. If Whiz has to be replaced, this will send this franchise back to the Stone Age. I'll keep rooting for them until they put me in the ground, but we'll experience the same post Coryell withrawal that we suffered after the mid 70's run. Only 2 HC's ever pushed Bidwill to change his approach. Coryell & Whisenhunt. Success allowed them the leverage to even try that. Once they gave Bidwill that leverage back, he was able to justify canning them & he went back to his dictatorial ways. Once Whiz is dispatched of, our next few coaches will have NO leverage at all. Welcome to the same old Cardinals & the coaching carousel will break another generation of Cardinal fan's hearts!!!

 

[Diamondback Jay]

Jay Gruden or Pete Carmichael.

 

[chickenhead]

Interesting thread. I like the idea of Whiz staying on at HC with Norv/Haley at OC and Horton as DC. But is it possible? The Cards may need to give Horton a significant raise and promotion to Assistant HC to stay. And both Nov and Haley would want good salaries and a shot at another HC job sooner rather than later.

But I also have to admit, with the way this season has gone I'm starting to wonder what value Whiz is actually bringing to this scenario. His hot seat neighbor Andy Reid has a better personnel resume, for example. I'd almost rather have him as HC in the above scenario provided that the play calling goes to the OC. But I would also love to see Whiz turn it around.

I've always wanted to see Marty not only get another shot as well as win a Super Bowl. Vermeil did it...

 

[cardpa]

Interesting thread. I like the idea of Whiz staying on at HC with Norv/Haley at OC and Horton as DC. But is it possible? The Cards may need to give Horton a significant raise and promotion to Assistant HC to stay. And both Nov and Haley would want good salaries and a shot at another HC job sooner rather than later.

But I also have to admit, with the way this season has gone I'm starting to wonder what value Whiz is actually bringing to this scenario. His hot seat neighbor Andy Reid has a better personnel resume, for example. I'd almost rather have him as HC in the above scenario provided that the play calling goes to the OC. But I would also love to see Whiz turn it around.

I've always wanted to see Marty not only get another shot as well as win a Super Bowl. Vermeil did it...

There are some interesting points being made here however I believe there is a part of Whiz that will not let go of the control he presently has. In particular his control over the coaches. I also do not believe he has the ability to let go of the offense. He believes in his system too much even if its a farce. I just do not see CKW handing the offense over to even experienced guys like Turner. This trait is what is creating his downfall. The inability to have such complete control will also lead to him not being able to find another head coaching job.

How many other teams would be willing to give Whiz that kind of power and take it away from the GM. I propose you would be hard pressed to find a team that would do that.

This is why I believe Whiz must go. It is painfully apparent that the Whiz way is not the long term solution and a new direction for selecting players and coaches has to be followed. If MB is committed to winning the team will eat the last year of Whiz's contract and send him packing. So should they boot RG too.

Who the new GM and HC should be I really have no idea. What I do believe is whomever the new HC is he must be able to delegate and allow his coordinators the freedom to make decisions and create gameplans on their own. I do want a GM who is a master at evaluating talent and putting together competitive teams.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

There are some interesting points being made here however I believe there is a part of Whiz that will not let go of the control he presently has. In particular his control over the coaches. I also do not believe he has the ability to let go of the offense. He believes in his system too much even if its a farce. I just do not see CKW handing the offense over to even experienced guys like Turner. This trait is what is creating his downfall. The inability to have such complete control will also lead to him not being able to find another head coaching job.

How many other teams would be willing to give Whiz that kind of power and take it away from the GM. I propose you would be hard pressed to find a team that would do that.

This is why I believe Whiz must go. It is painfully apparent that the Whiz way is not the long term solution and a new direction for selecting players and coaches has to be followed. If MB is committed to winning the team will eat the last year of Whiz's contract and send him packing. So should they boot RG too.

Who the new GM and HC should be I really have no idea. What I do believe is whomever the new HC is he must be able to delegate and allow his coordinators the freedom to make decisions and create gameplans on their own. I do want a GM who is a master at evaluating talent and putting together competitive teams.

The next HC, like any other, will get the right to evaluate present staff and then make changes. He'll live with a few FO favourites in year one, and bring in people he knows and trusts, like any other HC.

A year down the road, he'll be looking for more control over coaching staff and the grocery shopping, like HC's in the past and present.

And, like any HC, he'll want a final, in cooperation with his coordinators, say on the 53.

That's what quality HC's demand and get. (IMO)

The Cards made changes to the FO last spring and adjusted responsibilities. These have yet to tested in an offseason. Doubt that there'll be any changes in Graves', Keim's or Licht's roles until that's been tested.

 

[conraddobler]

The next HC, like any other, will get the right to evaluate present staff and then make changes. He'll live with a few FO favourites in year one, and bring in people he knows and trusts, like any other HC.

A year down the road, he'll be looking for more control over coaching staff and the grocery shopping, like HC's in the past and present.

And, like any HC, he'll want a final, in cooperation with his coordinators, say on the 53.

That's what quality HC's demand and get. (IMO)

The Cards made changes to the FO last spring and adjusted responsibilities. These have yet to tested in an offseason. Doubt that there'll be any changes in Graves', Keim's or Licht's roles until that's been tested.

The bolded word is a big word, I disagree with letting a coach have that say most times, there are exceptions of course.

This is the NFL where people get paid millions of dollars per position many times. The reality is that it's largely above their pay grade to get this kind of say for a simple reason.

Their focus should be on coaching players not picking them. It's too much to ask for and it rarely works out.

Sure it can be done I'd just argue that it's not the best way in the main to do it.

The right coach I'd consider giving that to, the wrong coach will just do what Whis did, build a little empire of suck because they have tunnel vision and biases and too many other things going on to focus on that aspect correctly.

I would absolutely say that to be a great GM you have to know your coaches wants and respect them to a very high degree but it's that FINAL say thing that's going to far I think.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

The bolded word is a big word, I disagree with letting a coach have that say most times, there are exceptions of course.

This is the NFL where people get paid millions of dollars per position many times. The reality is that it's largely above their pay grade to get this kind of say for a simple reason.

Their focus should be on coaching players not picking them. It's too much to ask for and it rarely works out.

Sure it can be done I'd just argue that it's not the best way in the main to do it.

The right coach I'd consider giving that to, the wrong coach will just do what Whis did, build a little empire of suck because they have tunnel vision and biases and too many other things going on to focus on that aspect correctly.

I would absolutely say that to be a great GM you have to know your coaches wants and respect them to a very high degree but it's that FINAL say thing that's going to far I think.

How do you make the distiction between 'right' and 'wrong' coach to have authority over the final 53?

Bottom line: He's the guy, with his coordinators, who've put the players through their paces, not the GM or VP of Player personnel and, thus, are in the best position to fairly assess who should be on the final roster.

Find me a Super Bowl winning HC who didn't have that say.

 

[Mulli]

How do you make the distiction between 'right' and 'wrong' coach to have authority over the final 53?

Bottom line: He's the guy, with his coordinators, who've put the players through their paces, not the GM or VP of Player personnel and, thus, are in the best position to fairly assess who should be on the final roster.

Find me a Super Bowl winning HC who didn't have that say.

I bet Tom Coughlin doesn't have complete final say. I could be wrong. The HC's in GB and NO don't have the final say. Tony Dungy. Mike Tomlin.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I bet Tom Coughlin doesn't have complete final say. I could be wrong. The HC's in GB and NO don't have the final say. Tony Dungy. Mike Tomlin.

'Final' say, to my mind, simply means that at end of day, the GM can't say to the HC: 'Notwithstanding what you think or believe, this guy is on your final roster. Period".

Can you imagine that type of conversation with any of the coaches you mentioned?

 

[Mulli]

'Final' say, to my mind, simply means that at end of day, the GM can't say to the HC: 'Notwithstanding what you think or believe, this guy is on your final roster. Period".

Can you imagine that type of conversation with any of the coaches you mentioned?

I can see it happening from time to time. Absolutely.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I can see it happening from time to time. Absolutely.

I can't. However, I can imagine the GM saying: 'Look, it's your call, but, I'd like to see that guy get a chance. If it doesn't work out, we'll revisit."

 

[Stout]

Bill O'Brian but I don't think he leaves PSU. With what he did with the number of defections he had at PSU on top of all the inuries they had and to improve the team the way he did I think says a lot about his ability as a HC.

Bingo. He made Matt McGloin (sp?) look like a good QB, for Pete's sake.

 

[LarryStalling]

Anyone can lose 9 games in a row and looking at a possible 12. Even Jim Unruh could coach the pro team this well.