Who has a Better Year? SHAQ or MATRIX

[AsUdUdE]

No one is talking about how this will effect the Heat with Marion

I made this point in another thread, but I honestly believe Marion is going to STRUGGLE big time in Miami.. Remember its been 4 years since he has played a single game without a GREAT PG, and before that, he used his athleticism..

And lets not forget, Shawn Marion's PGs for the time he has been in the NBA are

Jason Kidd
Stephon Marbury
Steve Nash

Now he will have Jason Williams/Chris Quinn/Smush Parker

For a guy who shoot very poorly when creating his own shot off the dribble, I think Marion is going to struggle a LOT more than Shaq will...

While Shaq will have more talent, and a BIGGER chip on his shoulder..

But for all you Shaq Haters, who do you HONESTLY believe will have a bigger impact/better season this year from the trade?


Why?

 

[devilalum]

What criteria will you use to decide?

 

[AsUdUdE]

What criteria will you use to decide?

Who will have the better stats (Based on their previous teams)

How much the team will improve overall, based on Win/Loss, Point Differential, and overall Psyche of the teams based on the trade...

 

[tobiazz]

Marion doesn't have a great PG in Miami. Does that mean he is going to get less rebounds, blocks, and steals? Is he never going to get open shots when Dwayne Wade penetrates? His shooting percentage will likely drop but It's not going to go from 52% to 40%. I expect he will do well.

 

[AsUdUdE]

Marion doesn't have a great PG in Miami. Does that mean he is going to get less rebounds, blocks, and steals? Is he never going to get open shots when Dwayne Wade penetrates? His shooting percentage will likely drop but It's not going to go from 52% to 40%. I expect he will do well.

While on the surface, he may have similar Steals, maybe rebounds, blocks... his FG% is going to plummet.... and that in turn will make him more of an average NBA player...

I have always said Marion was average, but a Marion that averages 15 PPG, on 15-18 Shots, while getting 8-10 RPG, while hurt Miami more than it will help them... IMO

 

[Mainstreet]

I think it's a bit unfair to compare the two players in this way. Marion will be putting some pizzazz into Miami's offense and I think he will do a good job of doing that. However, what Phoenix wants out of Shaq is to solidify the middle so hopefully the Suns can win a Championship.... so I think Shaq should have the bigger impact looking towards the playoffs. I just don't think stats are what tells the story because Miami will probably not be seeing the playoffs this season.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Show some class and stop hating on a former Suns who busted his ass here for years.

 

[AsUdUdE]

Show some class and stop hating on a former Suns who busted his ass here for years.

.. seriously, So rather than ask a legit question, I should Kiss Marion's A$$ and say he will be the greatest player and now he is gone, the Heat win win the titles, and the suns will miss the playoffs?? or is it just because he was on the suns, we should just assume....

Should I also thank him for being a crying baby about not getting his due EVERY YEAR,

I think Marion kept us from becoming a team THIS YEAR, because of his attitude, and often times putting himself above the team

I'm sorry, but I really don't see your point..

Does he belong in the Ring of Honor.. ofcourse, but that doesn't mean we have to look at him in the same Rose-colored Glasses many have seen him through for years....

We all know you are PRO Marion, ANTI-Shaq, but does that mean you believe Marion will be a better player on the Heat than on the suns??

I just don't buy it.....

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I am pro good trades and anti stupid trades.

Trading a large expiring contract for a salary albatross and getting nothing else in return, not even a second round pick is stupid.

It's almost as stupid as sending a large expiring contract on a good player to another team along with two unprotected first round picks.

Kerr is a joke of a GM.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Oh and to answer your question:

Marion will have better stats than Shaq. It won't be close and it has nothing to do with whom the better player is.

Marion will play a lot of minutes and will be featured in Miami.

Shaq will play little minutes and be a "4th wheel (D'Antoni's words not mine)"

I could care less who has the better stats as long as we win a championship. See it doesn't matter what Marion's stats are. That isn't what validates or invalidates the trade.

It's "Does Shaq take us to the finals?" If not, then the trade is a bust. If he does then it is a rousing success.

My BIG concern is that we will be paying for this trade next year when we ship Atlanta's #1 for cash.

 

[jandaman]

.. seriously, So rather than ask a legit question, I should Kiss Marion's A$$ and say he will be the greatest player and now he is gone, the Heat win win the titles, and the suns will miss the playoffs?? or is it just because he was on the suns, we should just assume....

Should I also thank him for being a crying baby about not getting his due EVERY YEAR,

I think Marion kept us from becoming a team THIS YEAR, because of his attitude, and often times putting himself above the team

I'm sorry, but I really don't see your point..

Does he belong in the Ring of Honor.. ofcourse, but that doesn't mean we have to look at him in the same Rose-colored Glasses many have seen him through for years....

We all know you are PRO Marion, ANTI-Shaq, but does that mean you believe Marion will be a better player on the Heat than on the suns??

I just don't buy it.....

No..how about just not saying negative things about Marion...

he has helped the Suns the last 8 years he was here...

to call him average is exactly why he "b1tched" and moaned... I mean "average"???

every other fans and teams out there was saying how the Suns traded their second best player for Shaq... the respect should be coming from Suns fans more than other fans... its whats wrong...

its ridiculous... actualy... Marion is far from average... find me a 6'7 SF/PF who can guard 1-4 and do it well enough to do it consistently all season...

yes I also expect his FG% to drop to around 45%... but thats still a lot better than most... and his butt-busting effort in getting to those rebounds... to the passing lanes.... blocking shots.... hustle.... the things that the Suns will definitely miss...


So yeah... how about some respect and class... Shawn has left.. but he was good for the Suns....

 

[KloD]

I think Marion will struggle to find his place the rest of the year. Miami doesn't run. Now of course that may change, but it's not their current style. Marion benefits from the fast game and since he can't create his own shot, he'll struggle in the half court. I wish him all the best and appreciate very much what he brought to the Suns. Hope you find peace Shawn.

 

[jandaman]

him moaning and causing bad locker room presense??

No... its pretty much the thought that the Suns were in neutral and bound for an early exit...

that was the reason why the locker room wasnt as peachy.

They know they need a big man, and no one wanted to trade Amare... Diaw was untradable... so who else? Marion.

Im pretty sure Nash is still sceptical about this trade.... Nash and Marion was a great duo... its as good as the Amare Nash duo.... only it didnt involved the Pick and Roll.


Marion was just the one letting his frustration out... I am assuming that btw...
everyone else deep inside knew Amare isnt going to anchor the interior to carry the team to the championship...

If I was part of a good team.. but knowing we had no chance of winning it all after years of contending... I'd be pretty moody in the locker room too.

 

[jandaman]

Wade will find Marion a few times... I dont think they will play grind it down basketball..

it'll be more balanced...

Marion's defense reputation will also increase a lot since he will be part of a team that coaches defense to win games... his points will go down to maybe 15, but Wade has no one else there besides Davis.. so Marion will no doubt get a few more shots.

 

[Mainstreet]

I am pro good trades and anti stupid trades.

Trading a large expiring contract for a salary albatross and getting nothing else in return, not even a second round pick is stupid.

It's almost as stupid as sending a large expiring contract on a good player to another team along with two unprotected first round picks.

Kerr is a joke of a GM.

This trade for Shaq will be the decider, however, I never thought Kerr would recommend taking on such a large contract as Shaq for two more years. The answer will soon be forthcoming. Kerr will either be a genius or a bust. I've leaned toward the latter but I sure hope I am completely wrong. I really need a Championship after all these years waiting.

 

[cly2tw]

We were not gonna win anything with Marion, but have a great chance to win the title with Shaq. So, from Suns perspective, Shaq will have a better year.

 

[BC867]

Who will have the better stats (Based on their previous teams)

How much the team will improve overall, based on Win/Loss, Point Differential, and overall Psyche of the teams based on the trade...

Great point. It's time the Suns were less concerned with individual stats, and more with putting a complete team on the court, and with the end result.

Shaq's presence will result in:

Keeping the team upbeat on the court and in the clubhouse during a long season . . . vs. Marion's whining.

Allowing Amare to return to his natural position, keeping him in games, not having to defend tentatively, and becoming the superstar we want him to be.

Players and fans holding our heads high, despite losing out on Kevin Garnett and Pau Gasol.

And then consider that we got rid of an overpaid backup Point Guard who couldn't deliver playing the point, as well as a malcontent whom we could have lost with nothing in return.

If bringing Shaq to the Suns works, great. If not, what have we lost? Very little.

But, of course, it's up to Mike D'Antoni to make it work. That's the part I'm not comfortable with. It's in his best interest to see it fail. If it does, it's Kerr's fault.

Time will tell what his approach will be. To prove the move right or to prove it wrong.

I believe Steve Kerr is smart enough to keep an eye on how the coach handles it. There's a very real possibility that D'Antoni is not the man to lead this new approach.

 

[AsUdUdE]

No..how about just not saying negative things about Marion...

he has helped the Suns the last 8 years he was here...

to call him average is exactly why he "b1tched" and moaned... I mean "average"???

every other fans and teams out there was saying how the Suns traded their second best player for Shaq... the respect should be coming from Suns fans more than other fans... its whats wrong...

its ridiculous... actualy... Marion is far from average... find me a 6'7 SF/PF who can guard 1-4 and do it well enough to do it consistently all season...

yes I also expect his FG% to drop to around 45%... but thats still a lot better than most... and his butt-busting effort in getting to those rebounds... to the passing lanes.... blocking shots.... hustle.... the things that the Suns will definitely miss...


So yeah... how about some respect and class... Shawn has left.. but he was good for the Suns....

He is "average" when not surrounded by 3 other All-Stars and the Best PG on the Planet..

On the Suns which used him to the BEST of his ability he was good... on Miami, he will be average... Thats all Im saying

 

[AsUdUdE]

Oh and to answer your question:

Marion will have better stats than Shaq. It won't be close and it has nothing to do with whom the better player is.

Marion will play a lot of minutes and will be featured in Miami.

Shaq will play little minutes and be a "4th wheel (D'Antoni's words not mine)"

I could care less who has the better stats as long as we win a championship. See it doesn't matter what Marion's stats are. That isn't what validates or invalidates the trade.

It's "Does Shaq take us to the finals?" If not, then the trade is a bust. If he does then it is a rousing success.

My BIG concern is that we will be paying for this trade next year when we ship Atlanta's #1 for cash.

I think this is EVERY fans nightmare, especially if the pick ends up being mid-teen....

But I have to say this, what NO ONE is talking about is we are SAVING money on this deal.. the media is quick to point out the mamath contract of Shaq, but never points out that over the next two years the suns will be saving 2 million, plus 5 million on the last year of Banks contract..

Add that to the fact that assuming the Cap increases on the average that it has... in 2010/11, we will have between 18-25 million under the cap... This is the same year that,

LeBron
DwAyne Wade
Chris Bosh
Deron Williams
Chris Paul
Tyson Chandler
Andrew Bynam
Mike Conley
Darko Milicic
Michael Redd
Andrew Bogut
Randy Foye
JJ Redick
LaMarcus Aldridge
Travis Outlaw
Martell Webster
Brad Miller
Manu Ginobili (I would offically not be a suns fan if this happend)
TJ Ford
*obviously there are going to be quite a few that sign extentions, but as of right now these players either have player options, or are UFA...

Building a team to win a championship is one thing... but building that team to win 1-2 championships, and then set it up perfectly to reload and sign one top F.A. and one mid-Tier to pair with Stat, Barbs, and Diaw...

One has to think this played a big factor in the trade as well...

 

[AsUdUdE]

out of all these players, which one do you think has the best shot at becoming a F.A.

And who would fit best with the suns?

 

[mathbzh]

Shaq because nothing can be done for the current version of the Heat

 

[jandaman]

Nah... i seriously think now... knowing that the Heat is a defensive team... Marion will make All-Defensive teams from here on out..

Suns reputation (yes reputation, as we all know they have above average perimeter defense) prevented Marion from getting defensive team recognition... Raja Bell made it.. well deserved but Marion not making it is due to him playing PF and Suns interior being really bad.

 

[jandaman]

Chris Paul needs to be a SUN... hehe

continue that legacy of great PGs... KJ, Kidd, Nash.... Paul..

He'd also give incentives for the Suns brass to keep D'Antoni for the long haul.

 

[fordronken]

Marion will be better statistically, but O'Neal will be a part of something actually useful.

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

I am pro good trades and anti stupid trades.

Trading a large expiring contract for a salary albatross and getting nothing else in return, not even a second round pick is stupid.

It's almost as stupid as sending a large expiring contract on a good player to another team along with two unprotected first round picks.

Kerr is a joke of a GM.

I am inclined to believe that this trade was more Sarver than Kerr/D'Antoni. Shaq is big business. Sarver cares about bottom line more than on-court results - provided those don't affect the former. The team has generated mass publicity with this, and it may work out to boot. I personally think that Sarver looks at each year individually, and sees this year and next as a wash as far as contracts, but a net gain as far as revenue. Just my take. He couldn't care less about 2010. That is "for other people to figure out" in his mind, I believe.
I also believe if Sarver felt there was a chance that Marion would opt out, he wouldn't have pushed this through. But I am not as certain on that one.