Why did Tony stop running?

[BC867]

We know that Tony Womack had one skill that ranked above mediocre -- his base stealing.

From 1997 through 2000, he had 60, 58, 72, and 45 stolen bases, all good numbers.

The 60, 58, and 72 led the league (twice with the Pirates and once with the D'backs).

Then, when Bob Brenly became Manager, his totals dropped to 28 and 29 in '01 and '02.

Did Tony's base stealing skills erode . . . or did it just not fit in with the Manager's wait-for-the-homerun style?

How could a Manager, any Manager, not allow his players to utilize their best skills?

It didn't just start this year. It is part of Bob Brenly's legacy -- a blur on his resume!

 

[green machine]

Originally posted by BC867
We know that Tony Womack had one skill that ranked above mediocre -- his base stealing.

From 1997 through 2000, he had 60, 58, 72, and 45 stolen bases, all good numbers.

The 60, 58, and 72 led the league (twice with the Pirates and once with the D'backs).

Then, when Bob Brenly became Manager, his totals dropped to 28 and 29 in '01 and '02.

Did Tony's base stealing skills erode . . . or did it just not fit in with the Manager's wait-for-the-homerun style?

How could a Manager, any Manager, not allow his players to utilize their best skills?

It didn't just start this year. It is part of Bob Brenly's legacy -- a blur on his resume!

Why is there always a new anti-Brenly thread?

 

[Charles V]

Why is there always a new anti-Brenly thread?

The timing of this thread is a bit curious, but I agree with Green Machine. When the D-Backs signed Womack, he was one of the best base runners in the league...then something happened.

 

[moviebuff316]

reply

I know the answer!!!

The Answer is: He forgot how to get on base!

 

[Ryanwb]

Why did Tony stop running?

He sucked

Next question

 

[thirty-two]

Originally posted by Ryanwb
He sucked

Next question

 

[Charles V]

Tough crowd!

I don’t know about you guys, but the 2001 playoffs / World Series victory was one of the best moments I have ever had as a sports fan. T-Wo was a huge part of that. IMHO, he will always be associated with that championship team.

The guy was not a perennial All-Star by any stretch of the imagination, but he stepped up when it mattered.

No rings, No banners, No championships without Womack. Like I said, he was not an MLB All-Star, but we needed him.

Dont hate.

 

[DWKB]

Originally posted by Charles V

No rings, No banners, No championships without Womack. Like I said, he was not an MLB All-Star, but we needed him.

Dont hate.

This is some real faulty logic. Not trying to take away ffrom Tony, but to say that Tony and only Tony was the key to our Championship is just flat out wrong. Do you really believe if we replaced Tony with A-Rod we wouldn't have won? Or another MLB SS who made $6M per?

Tony came through in those situations, but to say we wouldn't have won without him is something you could never prove.

Oh, and I think the concept of this thread is asinine :-/

 

[BC867]

Originally posted by Charles V
The timing of this thread is a bit curious.

As I watched recent D'backs series, and saw the Giants and Dodgers bunting, sending runners, and manufacturing runs when it was needed most, I thought, "Wouldn't it be great if we had a leadoff hitter who would steal 60 or 70 bases?"

We did . . . and didn't!

 

[green machine]

Originally posted by BC867
As I watched recent D'backs series, and saw the Giants and Dodgers bunting, sending runners, and manufacturing runs when it was needed most, I thought, "Wouldn't it be great if we had a leadoff hitter who would steal 60 or 70 bases?"

We did . . . and didn't!

Wouldn't be great if we had a leadoff hitter who could get on base and run afterwards!!!!? Tony Womack was not that.

adam

 

[Lefty]

Tony did not get on base as a leadoff hittter should and that's too bad because when he did early with the Diamondbacks he made things happen.

I hope one of the things the Diamondbacks do in the off-season is too get a legitimate leadoff hitter who has great speed,

 

[moviegeekjn]

Originally posted by BC867
How could a Manager, any Manager, not allow his players to utilize their best skills?

It didn't just start this year. It is part of Bob Brenly's legacy -- a blur on his resume!

Total bull....

T-Wo always had the green light, but he was never on base and in enough situations to warrant his stealing talent... Besides, T-Wo had nagging injuries the past couple of years that limited him from even attempting the few times he actually did reach base.

 

[unc84steve]

Originally posted by BC867
We know that Tony Womack had one skill that ranked above mediocre -- his base stealing.

From 1997 through 2000, he had 60, 58, 72, and 45 stolen bases, all good numbers.

The 60, 58, and 72 led the league (twice with the Pirates and once with the D'backs).

Then, when Bob Brenly became Manager, his totals dropped to 28 and 29 in '01 and '02.

Did Tony's base stealing skills erode . . . or did it just not fit in with the Manager's wait-for-the-homerun style?

How could a Manager, any Manager, not allow his players to utilize their best skills?

It didn't just start this year. It is part of Bob Brenly's legacy -- a blur on his resume!

This is an interesting approach: criticizing the manager for not using a player's skills. I agree. But you know what? It contradicts a usual anti-Brenly tirade: too many lineups. Multiple lineups find the best matchups for more players and keep the bench sharp for other uses.

Let's talk about Tony Womack's skill(s). Those nominated include base-stealing, being a winner; I'd add out-making.

Riddle me this: why during Tony Womack 2 full time years on the Pirates (when he was leading the NL in SB's), did he also lead them to 79-83, 69-93 records? If he were a manager with such a record, he'd be fired.

 

[BC867]

Re: Re: Why did Tony stop running?

Originally posted by unc84steve
Riddle me this: why during Tony Womack 2 full time years on the Pirates (when he was leading the NL in SB's), did he also lead them to 79-83, 69-93 records? If he were a manager with such a record, he'd be fired.

Well, a leadoff hitter stealing bases ... or a cleanup hitter belting homeruns ... don't guarantee a winning record. But they're key contributions.

It's the Manager who's accountable for the team performance over the course of the season. Don'tcha think so?

 

[schillingfan]

Re: Re: Re: Why did Tony stop running?

Originally posted by BC867
It's the Manager who's accountable for the team performance over the course of the season. Don'tcha think so?

Yes. But so what? I think Larry Bowa is accountable for the phillies underachieving, but they appear to be winning in spite of him. Talent will win out, regardless of the stupidity of the manager.

 

[unc84steve]

Re: Re: Re: Why did Tony stop running?

Originally posted by BC867
Well, a leadoff hitter stealing bases ... or a cleanup hitter belting homeruns ... don't guarantee a winning record. But they're key contributions.

It's the Manager who's accountable for the team performance over the course of the season. Don'tcha think so?

Let me see...

A leadoff hitter stealing bases being a key contribution? NO WAY!
I agree with Bob Brenly completely in shutting down this aspect of Tony Womack's "talent" especially when he brought so many other negatives.

Cleanup hitters belting HR's? In general yes. But Mark Grace was a decent #4 hitter when he had .390 OBP & mid 400's slugging pct because he kept rallies going. I'd rather have that a .325 OBP player with 25 GIDP's killing rallies in the cleanup spot.

Manager accountable? I dunno. I lean more to the GM/owner being accountable. I think that often times the manager is stuck with players who are no longer serviceable on the roster. Specifically the GM & owner know that cutting players like Mark Grace, Quinton McCracken & Mike Myers (all sunk costs) would make people wonder why they were signed a few months earlier. Instead, it's much easier to sacrifice a still semi-productive player like Matt Williams because ignorant fans think he's the villian.

Don't YOU think so?

 

[SunCityCarl]

Re: reply

Originally posted by moviebuff316
I know the answer!!!

The Answer is: He forgot how to get on base!

Yep, .315 on base percentage when the D-Bax moved him to Colorado... He still has 2 of the biggest hits in D-Bax history!

 

[BC867]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Why did Tony stop running?

Originally posted by unc84steve
Instead, it's much easier to sacrifice a still semi-productive player like Matt Williams because ignorant fans think he's the villian.
Don't YOU think so?

Sorry, Steve, but I don't! Matty was no longer effective against RH pitchers, and would not participate in situational hitting to build rallies. Oh, those popups!

Trying to blame that on "ignorant" fans wouldn't have improved it! Plus you'd have to include "ignorant" sportscasters and "ignorant" sportswriters, who were commenting on it, too.

 

[unc84steve]

SunCityCarl: Tony Womack, bless him, will always have two of the biggest hits in D'backs history. But that's no reason for the Red Sox to use Carlton Fisk, the Yankees to use Bucky Dent (or Reggie Jackson), or the Giants to use Bobby Thomson.

BC867: I'll freely admit that Matt Williams was terrible against righties: that's why you use multiple lineups! Complex platooning hides weaknesses and allows players to use their strengths.

There was a very elegant answer available to the club that DWKB & I called for before the trade: bring up Chad Tracy. It would have been a perfect platoon: vet/kid, lefty/righty, defender/hitter. You'd start Tracy vs. RHP and would have Matty for defense if we were winning and as a RH bat if we were losing.

But interestingly, the best position player on the Sidewinders was never called up. I think it was obvious that the club didn't want to admit that it messed up by not going to Tracy in the first place.

 

[Phill11]

Tony Womac was a great guy. I was saddened to see him go. But Womack stopped running because after a while he could not get on base. Leadoff hitters should get on and spark rallies. Womack just couldnt do that.