Why is everybody so low on Gaines Adams?

[OldDirtMcGirt]

I don't get it. This guy is number two on my Cardinals draft board. He's a downright physical freak with tremendous speed and body type with the ability to put on some more pounds. He's also perfect for what we're trying to do on defense, in that he can rush the passer in the 4-3, or you can stand him up at OLB in the 3-4. Plus he has no character or injury concerns. So what exactly happened to him?

 

[Heucrazy]

I don't get it. This guy is number two on my Cardinals draft board. He's a downright physical freak with tremendous speed and body type with the ability to put on some more pounds. He's also perfect for what we're trying to do on defense, in that he can rush the passer in the 4-3, or you can stand him up at OLB in the 3-4. Plus he has no character or injury concerns. So what exactly happened to him?

It's the boom or bust vibe he gives off. At least that's what it is for me. If the Cards do take him I won't complain, but I will be a little nervous during the season waiting to see if he pans out.

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

It's the boom or bust vibe he gives off. At least that's what it is for me. If the Cards do take him I won't complain, but I will be a little nervous during the season waiting to see if he pans out.

I could see this attitude for Jamaal Anderson, but Gaines has been pretty productive his entire career, and doesn't have the work ethic concerns of a guy like Alan Branch.

 

[football karma]

The one question on him I read consistently is the one that scares me more than any other:

Motivation. Will he be motivated after he cashes a signing bonus check of eight figures?

A physical freak who is runnning at 80% effort = a very mediocre player

 

[JeffGollin]

It's not so much folks are down on him as they are getting the most bang for their buck at #5.

If the Cards passed on Adams, they'd still have DE's consisting of Okeafor, Berry, A Smith and Pace. If they passed on Thomas or Levi Brown, they'd still have...still have....(Buehler?)...at OT.

 

[Heucrazy]

I could see this attitude for Jamaal Anderson, but Gaines has been pretty productive his entire career, and doesn't have the work ethic concerns of a guy like Alan Branch.

Anderson's problem is that he's a one year wonder. And those scare the bejesus out of me.

Adams playing style IMO means that he will either be the next Freeney or the next player in a long line of medicore Cardinals draft picks. Of course if we take him I'm praying for the next Freeney.

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

The one question on him I read consistently is the one that scares me more than any other:

Motivation. Will he be motivated after he cashes a signing bonus check of eight figures?

A physical freak who is runnning at 80% effort = a very mediocre player

I haven't heard anything about his motivation. The problems that I see are that his technique gets a bit sloppy at times, and he needs to put on more weight to hold up against the run.

 

[lobo]

I don't believe anyone is really down on Gaines. However do not be surprised if they go the D route it is the kid from Louisville. Have not yet seen a bad word written about him. Leadership skills, strength, smarts, etc. Age does not appear to be an issue. It may not be the shocker that y'all might believe.

This of course assumes Thomas is gone. (these are the most popular seven words on the board!)

Grimm will be worth his salt it is proven out that a secord round pick lurking in the bushes is as good as Brown and we get 'em if we don't take Brown.

See Thomas above.

 

[perivolaki]

It's the boom or bust vibe he gives off. At least that's what it is for me. If the Cards do take him I won't complain, but I will be a little nervous during the season waiting to see if he pans out.

Right on the money, that's what I've read too. He will either be a superstar that will give quarterbacks chills everytime they have to play him or he will be a guy that doesn't get to rush the passer because opponents just run the ball at him down after down.

High chance that he's great, also has a high bust factor and I think it's because he's one dimensional.

 

[kerouac9]

I don't get it. This guy is number two on my Cardinals draft board. He's a downright physical freak with tremendous speed and body type with the ability to put on some more pounds. He's also perfect for what we're trying to do on defense, in that he can rush the passer in the 4-3, or you can stand him up at OLB in the 3-4. Plus he has no character or injury concerns. So what exactly happened to him?

I think it's not recognizing the need for a young DE combined with the bad taste left in many mouths from the Simeon Rice Experiment.

I actually like Gaines Adams a ton. I think he'll average 10 sacks a season sooner rather than later. But I really don't think he'll be on the board when the Cards pick, so it's not going to matter.

For what it's worth, he's third on my board behind Calvin Johnson and Joe Thomas. Adrian Peterson is fourth.

 

[cardsfanmd]

I don't get it. This guy is number two on my Cardinals draft board. He's a downright physical freak with tremendous speed and body type with the ability to put on some more pounds. He's also perfect for what we're trying to do on defense, in that he can rush the passer in the 4-3, or you can stand him up at OLB in the 3-4. Plus he has no character or injury concerns. So what exactly happened to him?[/quote]

People said the same exact things about Mike Mamula.

The bottom line is that he had one great one dimensional year at Clemson and that is it. He got after the quarterback but was marginal at best against the run. He might not have character or injury issues, but there are questions about his concentration, detication, motor and brain.

Many people want to see a bit more than what he has shown thus far to validate what it would cost and who they would have to pass on to aquire him. Landry for instance was a four year starter at LSU and would have been a late first early second rounder last year. Brady Quinn would have also been picked in the first half of the first round last year. As would AP. If Joe Thomas hadn't hurt his leg then he would have came out last year and most likely been the second tackle selected in '06.

With that said, he is the physical freak you described and that is what intrigues the teams. I think the main reason is his size, no questions asked. he is a tweener and many of those guys dont make it. Sure he has the combine numbers to acheive his goals, but that doesn't always translate to the field. people dont know how he will handle the weight he will have to add to play end in the NFL or how he would be able to man a LB spot in the 3-4. i think he will be great in that D, I just want to be safe and that is why I am endorsing Thomas, AP, and, if all else fails, Landry.

 

[Redsz]

I could see this attitude for Jamaal Anderson, but Gaines has been pretty productive his entire career, and doesn't have the work ethic concerns of a guy like Alan Branch.

He may not have work ethic problems. But there are a number of concerns about Adams:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2007/adams_gaines

Needs to add bulk and muscle tone, as he has only adequate development … Lacks the brute strength to combat double teams working in-line … Tends to get too frustrated and throttles down when his initial moves fail …

When a blocker locks on to his jersey, Adams struggles to disengage, lacking the hand strength to overpower (gets frustrated and out of control, taking several plays to settle down) …

Needs room to operate, as he struggles to shed in tight quarters (only made four tackles inside the red zone in 2006 on 582 plays).

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Boom or Bust.

Lack of Need at the position.

Simeon Rice type.

We need help against the run on defense more than anything and Adams brings nothing to the table concerning that aspect of the game.

Defensive ends and defensive linemen in general take longer to develop and this team needs to win NOW.

That is just a few. That being said he definately has the potential to make me and A LOT of nay sayers look real stupid by becoming the next sack machine.

 

[AZCB34]

he's third on my board

I gotta go out and get me a board too. Can you get those at nfl.com?

I kid.

FWIW, I still try and package a trade with Oakland just to land Johnson. To me, he is the real deal.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I can honestly say that i haven't seen him play very much so i can't offer a valid opinion on him. I think i saw a highlight of him blocking a punt/fg and returning for a TD.He looked pretty athletic but i don't know what kind of tenacity he plays with on a consistent basis.

 

[joeshmo]

The bottom line is that he had one great one dimensional year at Clemson and that is it. He got after the quarterback but was marginal at best against the run. He might not have character or injury issues, but there are questions about his concentration, detication, motor and brain.

I think the main reason is his size, no questions asked. he is a tweener and many of those guys dont make it.

He had 3 great years at Clemson. Double digit sacks and double digit tackles for loss his Junior and Senior Year. He also had double digit TFL and 5 sacks as a backup his sophmore year.

As for his weight he is 261 at his pro day. Okeafer is 265, Berry is 270, Freeney is 268, Burgess is 260. I dont think his weight is scaring anyone. If he is 261 right now how much do you think he will weigh under a John Lott program, over 265 when the season starts, closer to 270 his 2nd year.

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

I think it's not recognizing the need for a young DE combined with the bad taste left in many mouths from the Simeon Rice Experiment.

I actually like Gaines Adams a ton. I think he'll average 10 sacks a season sooner rather than later. But I really don't think he'll be on the board when the Cards pick, so it's not going to matter.

For what it's worth, he's third on my board behind Calvin Johnson and Joe Thomas. Adrian Peterson is fourth.

IMO comparing a guy to Simeon Rice is a good thing. Rice is a great football player, he just had attitude problems up the whazzoo which Gaines doesn't have. Guys like Freeney, Merriman, Ware, etc. all were supposed to be one dimensional pass rushers and they turned out all right. Gaines wouldn't have to gain any weight to play OLB in the 3-4. Sure his technique gets sloppy and he gets frustrated with that, but good coaching will remedy that.

And Gaines has always been productive in college. Sure he isn't Landry, but most aren't. He's not a flash in the pan like Anderson. His basement is just a situational pass rusher, and his ceiling is Shawn Merriman (without the steroids). Sign me up.

 

[cardsfanmd]

He had 3 great years at Clemson. Double digit sacks and double digit tackles for loss his Junior and Senior Year. He also had double digit TFL and 5 sacks as a backup his sophmore year.

As for his weight he is 261 at his pro day. Okeafer is 265, Berry is 270, Freeney is 268, Burgess is 260. I dont think his weight is scaring anyone. If he is 261 right now how much do you think he will weigh under a John Lott program, over 265 when the season starts, closer to 270 his 2nd year.

I was thinking he was only about 250. I take that one back.

I didn't find him overly dominent in his junior campaign though. He was good, but not even first round material at that point IMO. I am not saying I dont think he is any good, I am just trying to answer the question on the thread as to why he is catching so much flak, and what I said is simply what I have heard.

 

[kerouac9]

IMO comparing a guy to Simeon Rice is a good thing. Rice is a great football player, he just had attitude problems up the whazzoo which Gaines doesn't have. Guys like Freeney, Merriman, Ware, etc. all were supposed to be one dimensional pass rushers and they turned out all right. Gaines wouldn't have to gain any weight to play OLB in the 3-4. Sure his technique gets sloppy and he gets frustrated with that, but good coaching will remedy that.

And Gaines has always been productive in college. Sure he isn't Landry, but most aren't. He's not a flash in the pan like Anderson. His basement is just a situational pass rusher, and his ceiling is Shawn Merriman (without the steroids). Sign me up.

You don't have to tell me. I've been defending Gaines from the "Simeon Rice" angle all offseason long. I think that we would all be ecstatic to get a guy that averages 10 sacks per season for a decade. But some people are stupid.

 

[kerouac9]

[/B]
I didn't find him overly dominent in his junior campaign though. He was good, but not even first round material at that point IMO. I am not saying I dont think he is any good, I am just trying to answer the question on the thread as to why he is catching so much flak, and what I said is simply what I have heard.

Last offseason Lindy's preseason preview had a "look ahead" to the 2007 draft. Adams was listed as the #1 senior prospect at DE (behind Southern Cal holdover Lawrence Jackson). They said, "He is an advanced pass rusher with polished skills and a plethora of moves to reach the QB."

 

[Zeno]

The bottom line is that he had one great one dimensional year at Clemson and that is it.

You couldn't be more wrong. He was considered one of the best DEs in the country entering his senior year and he improved season to season in college. The Mamula comparisons aren't even close to being valid, nobody even considered Mamula a first day pick before his combine.

I like Gaines Adams, he is athletically gifted and produced on a more consistent basis then Anderson (who I initially liked more until I looked in to both of their college careers as a whole). I'd have no problem on drafting him, he is solidly my #3 choice behind Thomas and Peterson.

 

[Skkorpion]

I never saw him play so I have no opinion. Honestly, how many Clemson games have any of you seen? They are rarely on TV except maybe in the South.

I have become more and more convinced that most of the gurus' opinions are plagiarisms of each other or formed after watching a 15 minute highlight film. That's why they are wrong so often.

The other thing that happens is that turds like Todd McShay on ESPN will see one game where a kid plays badly because his girl friend just dumped him or he's worried about flunking a test, and the "expert" will generalize and tag a kid with a false negative that gets picked up by all the other slime and repeated as Gospel.

The battle of quotes and counter-quotes on this board is interesting and gives us something to do but I long ago gave up giving any credence to anything the War Room says (dropped my subscription this year), or ESPN, or any of the others. That's why I like the BRS workup. All the lies are in one place and Jeff Gollin gives his very own own opinions as well, from a Cards perspective.

What I like about these threads on ASFN are the guys who will go out on a limb and tout a player they've seen at least a few times and hang tough against all comers.

Landry, Thomas, Levi Brown, Peterson, and a few others have all had strong backers. It's good stuff. I'll put up my own biases tomorrow or the next and have at it, guys and girls.

The best gutsy call I remember was Zeno on the old AOL Cards corner practicaly screaming that we had to draft Randy Moss. Day after day, he pounded on that one.

Some of you did that about Urlacher too. Good call.

Some of us swore Ryan Leaf would be better than Manning. (Gulp. So much for the value of having seen both many times.)

 

[Zeno]

The best gutsy call I remember was Zeno on the old AOL Cards corner practicaly screaming that we had to draft Randy Moss. Day after day, he pounded on that one.

I wanted Moss because I wasn't a big believer in Rob "Catch the ball and fall down" Moore. I thought Sanders and Moss would be an ideal pair of WRs. But truth be told Moss probably would have had a meltdown of the TO proportions had he been stuck here under some pretty bad coaching staffs.

 

[Redrage]

The short answer to why are people down on Adams:

They haven't seen him play.

 

[perivolaki]

For what it's worth, he's third on my board behind Calvin Johnson and Joe Thomas. Adrian Peterson is fourth.

What exactly is about him that makes you have him at third?

I think he could be great in a 3-4 system but I have some concerns about a higher chance that he's a bust.

I also have some concerns about Thomas. Some things about him remind me of Gallery. I get all nervous when I hear the scouts talk about what a great technician a player is. Footwork and handplacement are great but I like hearing about Levi Brown having a nasty streak.

My favorite at #5 is Peterson. I think he has the lowest bust factor.

I readily admit that I haven't seen to much of Adams and favor Peterson because I have watched him many more times.