Why not fire Graves?

[wisemonkey]

There has been zero discussion about firing Graves, why? This is his 4th year as VP of Operations.

His resume over his tenure (since '03 season) boasts the following success:

16 - 40 record
3 total road wins
$10 Million not spent in '06 Cap
'03 season, # 29 rushing offense
'04 season, #22 rushing offense
'05 season, # 32 rushing offense 71 yards/game
'06 season, # 32 rushing offense 69 yards/game



Please feel free to add his achievments to the list...

 

[wisemonkey]

There has been zero discussion about firing Graves, why? This is his 4th year as VP of Operations.

His resume over his tenure (since '03 season) boasts the following success:

16 - 40 record
3 total road wins
$10 Million not spent in '06 Cap
'03 season, # 29 rushing offense
'04 season, #22 rushing offense
'05 season, # 32 rushing offense 71 yards/game
'06 season, # 32 rushing offense 69 yards/game



Please feel free to add his achievments to the list...

 

[dreamcastrocks]

You don't need to. He isn't under contract.

 

[Pariah]

There has been zero discussion about firing Graves, why?

No there hasn't. There's been plenty.

 

[Russ Smith]

First he doesn't have a contract so firing him seems hard to do.

I don't think people believe Graves is really responsible for the current mess beyond his possible role in hiring Green.

I have no issue with firing Graves, but for me if you hire a consultant he's probably going to tell you do to that anyways when he recommends someone to be the GM.

 

[MadCardDisease]

He has kept this team under the cap since he has been here.

 

[Goldfield]

At this point everyone needs to be fired.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Mike finally has control of the team. Pocketbook was finally opened. He gets Green which 95% of you guys wanted and now he sucks? Cmon guys. Graves is a class act imo after meeting him and really wants to win. They will.

 

[Goldfield]

Wanting to win doesnt make him a good GM. If that were the case then we would all make great GM's...

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

He has kept this team under the cap since he has been here.

That's one of my favorite Rod Graves myths.

Other favorites include...

Myth - Rod Graves gets his draft picks signed on time!
Reality - At least one player including every first round draft pick has missed a part of training camp since Rod was named GM.

Myth - Rod Graves manages the cap well!
Reality - Rod Graves and the rest of the organization cannot convince players to come here unless they overpay. Then the budget is cut off so they cannot spend everything and marginal players are extended so they can justify such frugality. They pulled the same nonsens in 2003.

Myth - Rod Graves has a plan!
Reality - Perhaps, but after a decade of NFL employment and an abhorrent track record then it might just be his plan flat out sucks. Which in essence means he does not have a plan.

Myth - It was all Mac's fault this team sucked, not Graves!
Reality - The 2003 draft, free agency, and contract extension debacle was all on Graves considering he planned to fire Mac halfway through the season if not sooner. And if Mac indeed was the cause of all these mishaps, them Graves is even more incompetent as he allowed McGinnis to go ahead with such stupidity while he planned his departure.

Some of us (Cheesy, Aj) want Graves gone before Green gets axed. Green sucks, but Graves is somehow worse.

 

[kerouac9]

If you don't think that people here aren't interested in firing Graves, you're not paying attention:

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=80799
http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=80758
http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=80360
http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=80414
etc.

 

[Sandan]

Mike finally has control of the team. Pocketbook was finally opened. He gets Green which 95% of you guys wanted and now he sucks? Cmon guys. Graves is a class act imo after meeting him and really wants to win. They will.

Looks like I'm no longer the only person who thinks RG is a class act.

Just wait you are now on the assault list

 

[Sandan]

See what I mean.

Say a good thing about RG and boom, pack of wild dogs attack you

 

[Sandan]

You folks do know it's possible to like a person and think he is a class guy, without thinking he is doing a bang up job don't you ?

 

[kerouac9]

Whoa. Can we merge the two threads with this title? I had a good response...

 

[CaptTurbo]

Looks like I'm no longer the only person who thinks RG is a class act.

Just wait you are now on the assault list

Yeah I saw him at the buses too and told him I hope he gets a contract.

 

[kerouac9]

You folks do know it's possible to like a person and think he is a class guy, without thinking he is doing a bang up job don't you ?

I don't think you'll find anyone here that will disagree that Graves is a class guy. We just don't think that he can effectively do his job, and we have a decade of evidence at our disposal to illustrate why.

You can like a guy as a person and still hope he gets fired. They're not mutually exclusive. You can like a guy and still think that he's utterly incompetent.

Why do you think these positions are not compatible, nidan?

 

[Goldfield]

Looks like I'm no longer the only person who thinks RG is a class act.

Class act? Sure the guy seems like one of the nicest people I have ever met. But how does that factor in as grading him as a GM? It doesnt, he sucks.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Say a good thing about RG and boom, pack of wild dogs attack you

Nobody's attacking you or swd. We're attacking the notion that Graves is a good GM and deserves a contract extension.

 

[Russ Smith]

Class act? Sure the guy seems like one of the nicest people I have ever met. But how does that factor in as grading him as a GM? It doesnt, he sucks.

precisely. Kurt Warner is a class act, great guy, but it makes no sense to keep him as the starting QB. Graves is a class act, genuinely wants this team to win, so far he's shown no ability to make that happen.

My issue with Graves is if the Cards won't hire a REAL GM while Graves is here, than Graves has to go. If they can keep him and hire a real GM, fine.

Everyone wants to win, that's just not enough anymore, they have to actually WIN.

 

[clif]

I think Graves is a very nice person with a very nice family and I wish things were better for him and the rest of us. I personally find it hard to grade him because we just don't know what the plan has been or is. Why did we not spend to the limit?

No one has really given a good explanation as to why.

Was his job to sign one big name player and a few other mid tier FA's? If so then job well done.

Was his job to sign up to the limit and improve the team as much as possible? If so then he blew it big time.

Was his job to spend but save money for our own players?

Who really knows. MB has not come out and said (as far as I know) so how can we really grade him?

Why is he without a contract? If he was not going to be brought back why would he continue to work? If he is going to be retained why hasn't he gotten a new deal?

THere are so many questions that have gone unanswered that we can only speculate.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Everyone wants to win, that's just not enough anymore, they have to actually WIN.

Hell, I'd even take a win every once in a while. Losing seven straight sucks!

 

[Sandan]

Why do you think these positions are not compatible, nidan?

Because everytime I try I mention RG you jump all over me.

As for some of the 'myth/facts'

I'm sure RG has a plan, he is that type of person. Is it a good one, who knows. However he has only been in charge for 3 years so going back a decade is pointless.

So he doesn't get picks in on time or at least some see no change in that area. Are we having min-camp holdouts these days ? I know we used to.

Are we having players hold out all of training camp, no. Sure the top pick may miss some of TC, but that is hardly unusual for any NFL team.

Typically NFL GMs have longer terms that HCs. Having said that, I think that the fact that he doesn't have a contract is interesting. I also suspect that the choice may ride on what his plan is and if MB buys into it.

 

[kerouac9]

However he has only been in charge for 3 years so going back a decade is pointless.

Really? His record of failure with the Bears should not have any bearing or relevance to his record of failure with the Cardinals? Why?

 

[Sandan]

Was he the GM at the Bears ?