Will King Denny be back?

[Timm Rosenbach]

Denny's quote at the beginning of the season went something like this:

Do you think that I could take another season like the last?

Well; this season actually looks to be worse. Do you guys think Denny will be back? As much as I disagree with the Kendall, Shelton and Lee shortsighted decisions, I really don't think we could find anyone better to take this "project". Unlike Denny, I think that the cards should look at the alternatives before wishing someone out of town; The alternatives aren't pretty. The question seems to me: Will Denny come back or cash in his chips on this pretty painful gamble? I hope that he holds 'em. D'brickshaw or Leinart and one run-stuffing nose tackle could make all the difference in the world

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

I just read Mitch's post below, and I am disgusted. So I posit this question for all the fire Denny naysayers: Who do you want who would realistically take this job? I was just listening to the JT Debrick (Yankee and Raider fan...how does that happen?) and he said that the biggest mistake of Denny's career was taking the Cardinals job. Charlie Weis aint leaving Notre Dame for the Cardinals job. A more likely scenario is a Norv Turner type washup. No one wants this project. I pray that Denny stays for the long haul and I pray that the Bidwills open up their pockets to buy a decent O-line this offseason

 

[Sandan]

Again there is no evidence that suggests this is money problem.

Will we jeep hearing the Bidwill's are cheap until we win a Superbowl ?

Where are we going 'cheap' on the Oline ? Ineffective sure but not cheap certainly not in LD case

 

[WisconsinCard]

Again there is no evidence that suggests this is money problem.

Will we jeep hearing the Bidwill's are cheap until we win a Superbowl ?

Where are we going 'cheap' on the Oline ? Ineffective sure but not cheap certainly not in LD case

Your right Nidan. The problem I see is that we have some $ into our line as it is. What is DG going to do? Bigs not going anywhere, Ross ??? just signed a huge contract. Rookie Brown at RG gotta give him time. I dont think DG is ready to give up on Step as of yet. So DG might be of the belief that the only postion that needs upgrading would be LG. I personally dont think that enough.

 

[DakotaCardsFan]

Do you guys think Denny will be back?

Yes. I'm certainly not a "Denny Guy", but there is no way he walks away from this out of frustration. Those who despise Denny often site his ego as a problem. That alone is enough to make him stay. I agree that he is our best current option.

As to feeling disgusted with Walter's post, well, I guess we agree on two things.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

I wasn't saying the Bidwills are cheap (although that is up for debate). What I was saying is that its going to take alot of SMART money to bring in some top free agents on the line (ie John Runyan + a center or Guard). Oliver Ross will be dealt with one way or another, and LD will be the top paid Guard or Right Tackle in the game; What I meant was that the pockets will have to be opened up in this free agent offseason for this line to be built to the point where the run game and offense can function

 

[AZ Shocker]

What I was saying is that its going to take alot of SMART money to bring in some top free agents on the line

I'm pretty sure we already have tried that and have already went that route. Didn't we have the highest paid offensive line in the NFL the last year or two? Or was it the highest paid position(s) on the team?

Whichever...it's all about "assistant coaching" and "motivation". Until this franchise can attract good NFL coaching (assistants included), and provide a "motivational" lure to its rookies and free agents...the Cards will continue to suck.

p.s. When I say "motivational lure", I'm talking about some sort of cohesivness and winning attitude. Such is what this franchise so dearly lacks.

 

[john h]

Denny's quote at the beginning of the season went something like this:

Do you think that I could take another season like the last?

Well; this season actually looks to be worse. Do you guys think Denny will be back? As much as I disagree with the Kendall, Shelton and Lee shortsighted decisions, I really don't think we could find anyone better to take this "project". Unlike Denny, I think that the cards should look at the alternatives before wishing someone out of town; The alternatives aren't pretty. The question seems to me: Will Denny come back or cash in his chips on this pretty painful gamble? I hope that he holds 'em. D'brickshaw or Leinart and one run-stuffing nose tackle could make all the difference in the world

The chances are slim to none the Bidwills would fire Denny even if we lose ever game remaining. It would cost them money. It would show and admit they had made a serious error in judgement. Denny is here for the duration unless he decides to quit at some point and I do not rule that out. The guy has to have some pride and if next year goes like this he certainly might call it quits unless he is really strapped for cash.

 

[conraddobler]

Should've hired Jim Johnson the Eagles D Coordinator.


Still can.


DG is better than a ton of alternatives, I'll give you that. I'm inclined to give the whole bunch of them one more year just to stabilize what we have here. Sooner or later it should break out, starting next year with a home game as we should, will help immensely.

Hopefully at least the first game will be sold out due to the novelty of it, if we can win that game we can start something. The players attitudes might change just by that one game. It's one of the more pivitol games in our history IMO. I just hope we don't get something stupid like the Colts for the first game.

 

[john h]

Again there is no evidence that suggests this is money problem.

Will we jeep hearing the Bidwill's are cheap until we win a Superbowl ?

Where are we going 'cheap' on the Oline ? Ineffective sure but not cheap certainly not in LD case

Call it cheap or call it a lack of cash but in fact the Bidwills are well known to not spend their money like other successful teams. When you consistently do not spend your allowable CAP money you have to put some name to it. I suspect their budget allows for a certain profit margin and if they cannnot reach the expected margin they will cut expenses to meet it. Other big corporations do it on a regular basis. I worked for GE and they will do what ever it takes to reach their goals which used to be 10% growth a year. Profits come ahead of winning to the Bidwill family it would appear.

 

[Snakester]

I think without a doubt Denny Green will be back. If I remember correctly, his contract is guaranteed the whole four years, so unless he does something stupid like get arrested for drugs, or cuss Mr Bidwill out. I think he will be here for the full four years. I don't see him retiring either. He may not be the easiest guy to like, but he is no quitter.

 

[ajcardfan]

When you consistently do not spend your allowable CAP money you have to put some name to it.

John, this is just plain, flat out wrong. The Cards have used their cap money ever since Buddy Ryan left them in cap hell. This year, they had 3.5 million left when they signed Rackers to an extension. I doubt they used all of that on Rackers, so watch for another extension or two in December.

There ARE very legitimate gripes about the Bidwill's spending:

1. Carrying the most open cap space going into the season almost every year.

2. Consistently being at, or very near, the bottom in signing bonuses (especially for free agents).

3. Maybe shortchanging the assistant coaches.

So, have at it, on those topics. Yes, the Bidwills have turned profits far more often than not.

 

[conraddobler]

I think without a doubt Denny Green will be back. If I remember correctly, his contract is guaranteed the whole four years, so unless he does something stupid like get arrested for drugs, or cuss Mr Bidwill out. I think he will be here for the full four years. I don't see him retiring either. He may not be the easiest guy to like, but he is no quitter.

If you really think about it we were in such a talent deficit when he came here, then in order to establish himself he cut some of the better talent on the team just to make a point.

I'm not arguing about that it's just a fact.

He then added Berry which was good but now he's hurt and drafted Rolle, he's hurt. Arrington is hurt and plays behind an awful line, the only thing this team has are our WR that are any good on offense.

Our best RB when he got here was Emmitt Smith and our best QB was Josh McCown. Our best CB was Macklin and our best Olinemen was Big playing out of position.

In short we were dreadful and would need to be 100% injury free to not be dreadful. The talent will come we are keeping players now, signing long term deals. My opinion is that asking for anything this year would have needed everything to go right, it didn't and so we must wait again till next year.

The main concern I have that scares me the most is that even with our talent level being what it is, we haven't seen many examples of a great gameplan that just fell a little short. What I mean by that is an example of great coaching sabotaged by sub-par players.

Mostly so far it's a case of being out gunned and out thought, I'd rather the team that just can't win because of our players than the team that needs to be better than everyone because our coaching isn't better than the other teams.

 

[ajcardfan]

If you read this, does it sound like he wants to bail? I don't think so if they reporter is accurate Green's demeanor when he was saying these things.

Notebook: Green defends Bidwills — from son
By Darren Urban, Tribune
November 11, 2005
The son had something to say. The father disagreed. Jeremy Green, the son of Cardinals coach Dennis Green and an NFL analyst for ESPN.com, listed the Cards as one of the teams that hadn’t lived up to expectations in an article this week.

Dennis Green said he hadn’t read the article.

"I heard it was Arizona and Baltimore and Minnesota so Mike Tice and Brian Billick and me, being old buddies (as coaches in Minnesota), we should just tackle him and get him in a headlock," Dennis Green said with a smile. "I don’t agree with anything that says the season is over for us. We are disappointed we are 2-6, absolutely.

"No one is more disappointed than (owner) Bill Bidwill. No way he felt we would be 2-6. He hired me to come in and turn this program around. I think Mike Bidwill, Bill Bidwill, they want to win. I want to win. (Vice president of football operations) Rod Graves wants to win. We are all on the same page, we’re all disappointed."

Jeremy Green listed his father’s overhyping of the team as one of the reasons for failed expectations, although he said Dennis Green had to do that in order to sell more tickets. Jeremy’s No. 1 reason for Arizona’s failure? Ownership.

"Owner Bill Bidwill (sic) has to take the brunt of the team’s failure this season," Jeremy Green wrote. "Despite losing season after season, Bidwill has never blown up the entire organization. It is hard to believe that the Cardinals have a multitude of key people in the organization who have been there for more than 20 years when the franchise has never consistently fielded a winner. The Bidwells love owning a team in the NFL; however, the problem is that winning is not the priority."

Asked about the statement, Dennis Green, evenkeeled in his answers, said "No, the number one reason is the head coach.

"I am doing my best at it," he said. "The number one reason we are 2-6 is me, not ownership, not the quarterback, not the offensive line, but me."

JOHNSON HURT

With receiver Anquan Boldin still out with a bruised knee, the Cards suffered another key injury Thursday when receiver Bryant Johnson tripped going for a ball during practice and sprained his shoulder, Green said.

Johnson, who had six catches and a touchdown last week in place of Boldin, is now listed as questionable for Sunday’s game in Detroit. If Johnson can’t play, Reggie Newhouse is his likely replacement in the starting lineup.

EXTRA POINTS

Running back J.J. Arrington (shoulder) returned to practice, and should play Sunday. Green also expressed optimism that defensive end Chike Okeafor (ribs), defensive end Antonio Smith (illness) and kick returner Reggie Swinton (toe) will all play. . . .

With Jeff Garcia not 100 percent, the Lions will start Joey Harrington at quarterback.

 

[BigRedMO]

Again there is no evidence that suggests this is money problem.

Will we jeep hearing the Bidwill's are cheap until we win a Superbowl ?


Where are we going 'cheap' on the Oline ? Ineffective sure but not cheap certainly not in LD case

No evidence to support idea that there is a money problem? I will give you 3 pieces of evidence. Bidwill is only owner to post a net loss last year. Bidwill is always significantly below the cap. Bidwill's assistant coach salaries are at botttom of NFL.

A money problem or flat out Bidwill incompetence are the only possible explanations for decades of pathetic football. If it is not money problems or Bidwill incompetence why is it that EVERY other NFL team finds success through changes of coaches and players but the Cards cant? Even through stupid luck teams find a way to win but Cards cant find the way. Green Bay getting Favre is example of this. GB did not know what they were getting and ATL didnt know what they were losing.

Statistically it is imposible to explain how through pure chance the Cards could not find the right pieces unless they are handicapped by money problems or owner incompetence. I really dont thnk even incomptence can explain it due to statistical chance or luck. It has to be money. Nothing else makes sense.

 

[NEZCardsfan]

I give him the 3rd year, unless the team completely gives up on him, and I don't think that happens. If we add some more depth this year, have another good draft, and add some quality assistants, an 8 or 9 win season could be had next year.

 

[conraddobler]

No evidence to support idea that there is a money problem? I will give you 3 pieces of evidence. Bidwill is only owner to post a net loss last year. Bidwill is always significantly below the cap. Bidwill's assistant coach salaries are at botttom of NFL.

A money problem or flat out Bidwill incompetence are the only possible explanations for decades of pathetic football. If it is not money problems or Bidwill incompetence why is it that EVERY other NFL team finds success through changes of coaches and players but the Cards cant? Even through stupid luck teams find a way to win but Cards cant find the way. Green Bay getting Favre is example of this. GB did not know what they were getting and ATL didnt know what they were losing.

Statistically it is imposible to explain how through pure chance the Cards could not find the right pieces unless they are handicapped by money problems or owner incompetence. I really dont thnk even incomptence can explain it due to statistical chance or luck. It has to be money. Nothing else makes sense.

Careful about that loss thing.

The only reason we'd have a loss is probably something to do with funding the stadium.

It's almost impossible to lose money on an NFL team with extra cap money available.

You get a check roughly equivilant to the salary cap each year just from TV money.

I'd say it had something to do with the stadium financing that threw a loss in there just a guess.

 

[seesred]

Green isn't going anywhere. First of all the new stadium opens next year. Does anyone really think Denny doesn't want to be part of that. Next he knows he is a handfull of players away from doing what Parcells has done in Dallas. Denny is very competitive. It would be very bad negative print in the papers and media. Headlines Cardinals do it again 10 coaches in X amount of years. This TEAM will never be good because they are always rebuilding. ETC:

I'd bet big money he heads team at least next year and my guess the year after.

GBR
40

 

[ajcardfan]

Careful about that loss thing.

The only reason we'd have a loss is probably something to do with funding the stadium.

It's almost impossible to lose money on an NFL team with extra cap money available.

You get a check roughly equivilant to the salary cap each year just from TV money.

I'd say it had something to do with the stadium financing that threw a loss in there just a guess.

The Cards lost about 4 million in 2003, but turned a profit of more than 16 mil in 2004.

Here are the 2004 numbers. Click on "operating income" and you will see we beat SIX teams for profit although we were last in revenue.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2005/30/Income_2.html

Here are the 2003 numbers, we did come in last that year. The only team to lose money.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2004/09/01/04nfland.html

But, using my good math skills, overall, the Bidwills have made more than 10 million dollars the last two seasons. This is possible because they are putting almost no hard cash, if ANY, into the stadium.

 

[conraddobler]

The Cards lost about 4 million in 2003, but turned a profit of more than 16 mil in 2004.

Here are the 2004 numbers. Click on "operating income" and you will see we beat SIX teams for profit although we were last in revenue.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2005/30/Income_2.html

Here are the 2003 numbers, we did come in last that year. The only team to lose money.

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2004/09/01/04nfland.html

But, using my good math skills, overall, the Bidwills have made more than 10 million dollars the last two seasons. This is possible because they are putting almost no hard cash, if ANY, into the stadium.

Unless you really see more than that, you cannot tell why they lost that money.

They could have written something off, it's meaningless without more detail to it.

 

[chickenhead]

I think Denny will be back without a doubt.

Re: the cap. It's not just that the Cardinals have been below the cap cconsistently compared to other teams--it's that this is symptomatic of not being aggressive in pursuit of free agents. Then when they do spend money on second tier FA's, we are supposed to be happy simply because they spent money...

 

[conraddobler]

I think Denny will be back without a doubt.

Re: the cap. It's not just that the Cardinals have been below the cap cconsistently compared to other teams--it's that this is symptomatic of not being aggressive in pursuit of free agents. Then when they do spend money on second tier FA's, we are supposed to be happy simply because they spent money...

You don't need to have first tier FA to make a good team, Berry was one of the best FA of all time.

We do alright in that since the change in mentality of this team, it's only a quick fix to an otherwise solid team, we are not that.