Wk 13 Arizona Cardinals off season. 4/4/23-4/9/23

[schutd]

Agreed. This is how you tank as an organization and how you fool a fan base. We will likely have several rookies who we draft this year and get significant snaps. The franchise will tell you it is because they drafted impact players. The reality will be that the level of talent on this roster is so low which is what enables rookies to start in most situations.

Its a tough one. Eyes wide open, but I can see a scenario where I can be sold that its better to get non-guaranteed high end rookies time in their rookie year, during a rebuild, as they might be of the quality that requires reps to achieve their goals, vs a blue chipper who you know will have an impact immediately.

For several years we have lamented the fact that we dont play our rookies, how will they develop, they need time, yadda yadda yadda. This year we look poised to do exactly that, so I will remain optimistic about our chances in the draft and what those players can become. This is absolutely the year to draft em and play em.

It doesnt have to mean "sure they're starting, look at the current roster!" though I completely see that side of the coin. They wont be fooling me. As I said, eyes wide open. But I can appreciate the modus operandi here. Marginal roster, hopefully crush the draft, a year of experience for a core of young starters, and then head into next year with high draft picks and a shload of cap room. Its a lot of if's and maybes, but that feels WAAAAAAAAY better, and more hopeful to me than the dreck Keim was continually bringing in to keep his "win now" mantra going.

 

[schutd]

A) there’s the typical BS made up argument. Had to come eventually. No one said it’s impossible to get more than one. Ever. No one. Congrats on succumbing to the lowest level of argumentation.

B) sauce and Wilson were both firsts. And it’s a rarity. Find other drafts where two firsts for a team resulted in elite play. And we can’t even really call 83-1100-4 “elite,” can we? Really? It’s a terrific rookie year.

C) again no one said it never happens. But these drafts are really rare. To expect it, or build your roster building strategy around it, is foolhardy.

TO your A) point. Could you be any more snide? Sheesh. Doesnt mean youre wrong, but why be such a richard about it?

 

[Carolinacacti]

The problem with Keim's way is the older players got hurt and his drafts sucked. It's a young man's game and hard to win. The fans always buy in that's why we're fans. I'm buying in after the last 40 years and I'm still buying in. I'm a fan and I have to buy in. But I don't buy season tickets

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Looks like Pugh may not be done with Cards.

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[juza76]

Who is 48 Fortunato???

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

What I am saying is there is a huge advantage drafting at:

#3, #34 and #66

Vs

#30, #61 and #93

Well sure bc of greater choice. But I believe your logic was all six of those slots should generate a quality starter.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Ok I went back to 2020 and looked at the Vikings draft:

Justin Jefferson - Elite Starter
Ezra Cleveland - Starter
KJ Osborn - Starter
Cameron Dantzler - Starter
Jeff Gladney - Traded/RIP
DJ Wonnom - Rotational
James Lynch - Rotational
Troy Dye - Special Teams
Blake Brandel - Backup
Josh Metellus - ST/Backup

That’s a nice job of cherry-picking a team that had FIFTEEN draft choices. Lol. Still that’s one team. Browsing other teams drafts (I probably looked at half) it still shows how rare getting three solid starters is. Again, no one said it’s impossible, so pointing out one or even 5 in a given draft is only a 3-16% hit rate. Rare.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

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Off ball linebackers and midget receivers. What a legacy!

 

[AZ Native]

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Only four? Seems like Moore.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

TO your A) point. Could you be any more snide? Sheesh. Doesnt mean youre wrong, but why be such a richard about it?

Because it’s just disingenuous argumentation when I’m trying to actually have a legitimate discussion. And it happens way too often. Wouldn’t you get annoyed if someone didn’t debate with you in good faith? Because that’s what it is.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

TO your A) point. Could you be any more snide? Sheesh. Doesnt mean youre wrong, but why be such a richard about it?

I guess I could ask you why you had to succumb to name calling, which imo is worse than being snotty when calling someone else’s BS out.

 

[Shane]

Off ball linebackers and midget receivers. What a legacy!

And the shortest QB in the entire league. With those kind of WRs just seems like a recipe for disaster.

 

[GoldGloveschmidt]

And the shortest QB in the entire league. With those kind of WRs just seems like a recipe for disaster.

Not for long

 

[GatorAZ]

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I saw a tweet that the 2010 Patriots had the #1 ranked offense and three of their four top guys in scrimmage yards were 5’9” and under. They ruined it for everyone.

 

[Ronin]

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[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Not for long

What are we looking at here?

 

[GoldGloveschmidt]

What are we looking at here?

Bryce Young taking a photo with some high-school players

 

[MadCardDisease]

That’s a nice job of cherry-picking a team that had FIFTEEN draft choices. Lol. Still that’s one team. Browsing other teams drafts (I probably looked at half) it still shows how rare getting three solid starters is. Again, no one said it’s impossible, so pointing out one or even 5 in a given draft is only a 3-16% hit rate. Rare.

That’s the thing though. The Cardinals are drafting very early this Year and baring some kind of miracle will be drafting very early next year. Already having a franchise QB allows them to move around in the draft and accumulate additional picks. Especially with those extremely valuable high first rounders. The more early opportunities the better the chances of finding quality players.

I get that the Cardinals historically haven’t been strong at drafting. However for the first time in decades the Cardinals have hired a GM from outside the organization. I believe we should at least give Monti a chance.

Earlier I listed 7 teams who had successful drafts last year that yielded at least 3 starters. Look at what those drafts have done for those teams.

The Jets have become relevant even though they don’t have a QB.

The Lions were on the cusp of making the playoffs for the first time in forever.

The Chiefs won a Super Bowl with several of their rookies making huge contributions in their playoff run.

The Seahawks made themselves relevant when they were supposed to be in full rebuild mode.

The Cowboys won the East.

The Texans. Well the Texans still suck.


For the Cardinals to be relevant again they need to start drafting like the big boys. One starter per draft just isn’t going to cut it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That’s the thing though. The Cardinals are drafting very early this Year and baring some kind of miracle will be drafting very early next year. Already having a franchise QB allows them to move around in the draft and accumulate additional picks. Especially with those extremely valuable high first rounders. The more early opportunities the better the chances of finding quality players.

I get that the Cardinals historically haven’t been strong at drafting. However for the first time in decades the Cardinals have hired a GM from outside the organization. I believe we should at least give Monti a chance.

Earlier I listed 7 teams who had successful drafts last year that yielded at least 3 starters. Look at what those drafts have done for those teams.

The Jets have become relevant even though they don’t have a QB.

The Lions were on the cusp of making the playoffs for the first time in forever.

The Chiefs won a Super Bowl with several of their rookies making huge contributions in their playoff run.

The Seahawks made themselves relevant when they were supposed to be in full rebuild mode.

The Cowboys won the East.

The Texans. Well the Texans still suck.


For the Cardinals to be relevant again they need to start drafting like the big boys. One starter per draft just isn’t going to cut it.

Of course everyone is going to agree with your last paragraph. But strategizing based on expecting 3 good starters from a draft just isn’t realistic. And apparently we just aren’t going to see eye to eye because I disagree with your assessments and you are ignoring, or failing to recognize, the fact that it’s a rarity.

Also this: you might want to rethink your reasoning when you list the jets, lions and Texans as “the big boys.” Just a thought . . .

 

[kerouac9]

If you’re excited about the past three years of the Houston Texans, I have some great news about the next few years of the Arizona Cardinals.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Not for long

Bryce Young isn't only shorter, he's built thinly.

 

[Stout]

Looks like Pugh may not be done with Cards.

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Don't be this level of stupid, Monti. It's time to move on.

 

[Stout]

That’s the thing though. The Cardinals are drafting very early this Year and baring some kind of miracle will be drafting very early next year. Already having a franchise QB allows them to move around in the draft and accumulate additional picks. Especially with those extremely valuable high first rounders. The more early opportunities the better the chances of finding quality players.

I get that the Cardinals historically haven’t been strong at drafting. However for the first time in decades the Cardinals have hired a GM from outside the organization. I believe we should at least give Monti a chance.

Earlier I listed 7 teams who had successful drafts last year that yielded at least 3 starters. Look at what those drafts have done for those teams.

The Jets have become relevant even though they don’t have a QB.

The Lions were on the cusp of making the playoffs for the first time in forever.

The Chiefs won a Super Bowl with several of their rookies making huge contributions in their playoff run.

The Seahawks made themselves relevant when they were supposed to be in full rebuild mode.

The Cowboys won the East.

The Texans. Well the Texans still suck.


For the Cardinals to be relevant again they need to start drafting like the big boys. One starter per draft just isn’t going to cut it.

No. Sorry, but no, this is incorrect. The higher the pick the better chance of getting a quality player. The more earlier (round 1 and early round 2) but lower picks the greater the hope of getting quality players. And to make hope reality, you need a bangarang front office and really, really good fortune. Do we have a top FO? Will we be truly fortunate? A decent starter, a replacement-level starter, and a role player is nowhere near as valuable as a top pass rusher, per se. Can you do better than the three roles I just named? Sure, but it's the exception, not the norm.

 

[juza76]

Bryce Young isn't only shorter, he's built thinly.

But has much better pocket presence then Murray
He is bot scared to get hit

 

[RON_IN_OC]

But has much better pocket presence then Murray
He is bot scared to get hit

Willing to take hits and long term survival of taking hits are not the same thing.