Would you cut Kolb, If Manning says he still doesn't know yet?

Cards_Campos

ASFN Addict
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Posts
5,596
Reaction score
2,390
I mean if we have say 33% and he says he really is thinking deep at all the pros and cons...Should we cut Kolb and hope...or keep Kolb. Does keeping Kolb...Make Manning drop us??
 

seesred

Registered User
Joined
Jul 15, 2002
Posts
5,364
Reaction score
28
Location
section 8 row 10
I think we can always resign him. Can't we? There is not going to be a rush to pick him .

GBR
40
 

Phrazbit

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 10, 2011
Posts
20,308
Reaction score
11,382
Yes, to potentially miss out on Manning because you have a pressing need to grossly overpay Kolb would be disgraceful.
 

SunsTzu

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Aug 28, 2003
Posts
4,866
Reaction score
1,674
It'd be a huge risk to cut him. I don't know if we can take that risk.

It might be a huge risk, but it's only marginally riskier than paying him and relying on him to be healthy and capable of playing at a respectable level. I'd personally rather use that money elsewhere regardless of Peyton's decision.
 

TheHopToad

Россия отстой!
Joined
May 29, 2006
Posts
4,019
Reaction score
231
In this scenario, that happens if we pay Kolb, and then Peyton comes back and says he wants to play for the Cardinals? Are we screwed because we can't make room under the cap for both? The Cards couldn't possibly then tell Manning "Sorry, we're going with Kevin". We would somehow have to make other moves to make it work, and Kolb would be an expensive backup, unless we could sucker some team into trading for him.
 

CardsFan88

ASFN Addict
Joined
May 28, 2002
Posts
7,512
Reaction score
4,470
Yes.

If you're still in the running, you have to cut him. While Kolb isn't done, he's only a weird medium strength hit from getting a concussion and he may be done (or stigmatized concretely for concussions where no team will count on him as a starter). He's going to take many hits at that level or harder with any significant playing time. If he's our QB, he's going to take these hits. I think it's only a matter of time before the cards will have to get out of the contract because of the concussions, regardless of play, and this IS our best shot at getting a QB now or next year.

Sure we could get the #1-2 overall pick, sniff around Brees, etc, the Manning situation right now still represents our best shot at filling our QB need, and it's this year.

There's still lots of options, and we could always re-sign Kolb (not expecting much). Maybe Hass. Nothing is a good option, but the upside of Kolb is moot with concussions and there are some backup QB's-marginal starters out there. If Browns pick up Kolb, they probably drop Seneca Wallace.

None of these are good short term fixes unless we luck out, but in the NFL availability is key, and I have a hunch there are quite a few QB's, even Seneca Wallace, are more dependable than Kolb health wise, and thus be worthy of a roster spot. Of course also needing to cut someone to add another QB when Kolb goes down.

As long as our front office knows we need to get another QB in 2013, I'm fine with Skelton, Wallace/Hass/Other FA/Draft, Bartel for next year if Manning were then to choose someone else. Who knows what Skelton does. But at least we'd be in that situation because we tried to get better with Manning.

Then in 2013 we look for another QB. But with concussions, I doubt Kolb can last through a season without another, and so either way we'll be looking for a QB. Again NOW is our best shot.

Of course Kolb could make it through the season without a concussion, and play good. However at least on the concussion side, that's approaching miracle territory. Wasn't he supposed to maybe be here 10 years? The concussion risk is going to be there every year. I don't see how he has a long career unless it's a backup who rarely plays. That's obviously what we're not looking for. Obviously what we didn't pay for. Now is the time to notice it, and it is also the time it matters the most.

While it might not mean anything, it would also show Manning we mean business to take such a leap of faith. It might mean something.

If you still have a shot at Manning, cut him loose. Letting a high dollar medical risk with an injury type that recurs and is life debilitating determine the fate of getting the best field general QB in the history of the game, and not that player himself, is asinine imo.

Medically we're never going to be able to count on Kolb, and it is very possible that his concussions force him to retire before Manning. We're not holding onto much help for our team by holding onto Kolb.

Banks holding onto worthless crap and pretending it's worth full value doesn't make a bank any more solvent. An NFL football team holding onto a QB with huge red flag medical issues believing they and their huge contract can be a cornerstone of their team doesn't make the team any better. Throw in that you'll be pulling yourself out of the final three for the best and probably only shot to get a franchise QB with this relative group of players (aka this Cardinals era) for this player, makes it even worse.

Besides, the media and/or other teams might be trying to run out the clock and force our hand. We'll then be on the same playing field as any other team for Peyton.

No way does Kolb start out his contract. So why are we paying him like it? Why are we counting on him? Why would we allow him to take us out of the Manning sweepstakes?

Because he signed the contract is not a valid answer. Because we gave up DRC and a 2nd (yet to be paid)? These are all sunk costs. These decisions only hurt going forward, if we hold onto the mistake.

What if he decides to open 'negotiations' with two teams, including us? Would we give up in the middle and keep Kolb?

Either way the only good thing about the Kolb situation is that Manning might make a decision faster. He thinks it's our deadline. We can still change our minds on that. It appears our situation is driving the timeline (which to me seems a bit telling), and we can always push it back, and still win Manning, by making the logical choice and cutting our losses on Kolb.

We also don't want a forced no....A no, because I'm not ready to decide, however if you didn't have a deadline it could still be yes.

So imo an hour or so before the deadline if there is still nothing, perhaps you cut Kolb then, so you don't get a forced 'no'...that still could have been yes.

The key is to only let Manning choose not to be with you. Not some artificial reason that poor planning dictates.

There's probably even more nuances to this, but we don't know how much any of the teams are in contact and what they might have set up around tomorrow or the process in general. If you can get info that you're still in it, cut Kolb, and cut him early if necessary.

Only keep Kolb if you are out, and only out because Manning chose that, not forced into it timewise.

Something like that.
 
Last edited:

jbeecham

ASFN Addict
Joined
Sep 12, 2002
Posts
6,250
Reaction score
583
Location
Phoenix, AZ
Cut him....

2012 - $10 mil
2013 - $12 mil
2014 - $13 mil
2015 - $12 mil

Too many question marks for that much money... and he might not even be our starter even if PM goes somewhere else.
 

Jersey Girl

Stand down
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2002
Posts
32,476
Reaction score
6,460
Location
Super Scottsdale
I don't see Kolb coming back from the concussion thing. Combine that with the fact I never wanted him anyway and we could use that money somewhere else. I get the numbers, but I don't see Kolb leading this team.
 

Phrazbit

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 10, 2011
Posts
20,308
Reaction score
11,382
I seriously dont see the "risk". Paying him is the risk. You've got a guy who gets injured once in every 4 games and loses constantly. Giving that player 10 million bucks is the safe move? Give me a break.

His "results" can be easily replaced and if the team REALLY wants to keep him then they should waive him and renegotiate because as we learned last year, the Cards are the only team who wants Kolb.
 

Duckjake

LEGACY MEMBER
LEGACY MEMBER
Joined
Jun 10, 2002
Posts
32,190
Reaction score
317
Location
Texas
It'd be a huge risk to cut him. I don't know if we can take that risk.

I can see why it might be a risk. But you have to ask:

Do you really think Kolb is that much better than Skelton?

How many more games could the Cards win with Kolb vs Skelton?

Is Richard Bartel considerably worse than the average NFL backup QB?

Does the $7 million really matter in regards to the Cards cap room?

What team might grab Kolb if we released him in an effort to negotiate a more cap friendly deal?

Would Kolb even come back if we released him in an effort to sign Manning?

Interesting times in Cardinal land.
 

cardpa

Have a Nice Day!
Joined
Mar 14, 2003
Posts
7,405
Reaction score
4,151
Location
Monroe NC
Everyone is so worried about Kolb's concussions yet everyone seems okay with Mannings neck. I don't get it. If Kolb's head is such a worry why isn't Manning's neck any less of a worry. Either one taking a good hard hit to the head area can result in his career being over.

I guess what we are saying here is it's not okay to tie up a large amount of money in Kolb but its okay to tie up a enormous amount of money in Manning with each one possibly ending up permanently out for their career.

The odds of either one ending up getting knocked out on a permanent basis is probably pretty much the same.
 

TRW

ASFN Addict
Banned from P+R
Joined
Jan 13, 2003
Posts
7,810
Reaction score
7,489
Location
Avondale, AZ
Yes

I say kut Kolb regardless of what PM does.

Sometimes you just have to suck it up and admit a mistake without prolonging it.
 

JeffGollin

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
20,472
Reaction score
3,056
Location
Holmdel, NJ
Weasel Strategy...

If I could work out an informal agreement with PM before today's deadline to guarantee him back-end money if we were $7-mil short of cap space this year, i'd be more inclined to pay Kolb the money and let nature take its course (i.e. if we signed PM, we could keep Kolb or trade him. If we didn't sign PM, we're back to where we were a month ago). & perhaps there'd be a way to include terms in any Kolb trade that could give us some cap relief in years going forward.

It's not as if Peyton needed the money up-front; in fact, the more we could defer it, the better off he'd be tax-wise. So all we'd need is a hand-shake agreement to remove the time factor.
 
Last edited:

az jam

ASFN Icon
Joined
Mar 6, 2004
Posts
12,989
Reaction score
5,209
Location
Scottsdale, AZ
If Manning doesn't have the courtesy to call us by our 1 PM deadline than we need to go another direction and keep Kolb. I have no problem with the original (pre-Manning) plan of having Kolb and Skelton compete for the starting qb in 2012.
 

Vermont Maverick

Registered
Joined
Apr 24, 2006
Posts
1,861
Reaction score
181
Location
Williston, Vermont
If Manning doesn't have the courtesy to call us by our 1 PM deadline than we need to go another direction and keep Kolb. I have no problem with the original (pre-Manning) plan of having Kolb and Skelton compete for the starting qb in 2012.

He will have the courtesy to call.
 

D-Dogg

A Whole New World
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2003
Posts
44,920
Reaction score
877
Location
In The End Zone
Cut Kolb regardless.

I don't see Kolb coming back from the concussion thing. Combine that with the fact I never wanted him anyway and we could use that money somewhere else. I get the numbers, but I don't see Kolb leading this team.

Yes, I'm far more concerned about Kolb's health than Manning's.

I say kut Kolb regardless of what PM does.

Sometimes you just have to suck it up and admit a mistake without prolonging it.

All of the above
 
Top