kerouac9
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I don't think that pass rush difference-makers are as correlated to the top of the draft as, like, OT or CB. You can get really good players throughout the first round.
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I don't think that pass rush difference-makers are as correlated to the top of the draft as, like, OT or CB. You can get really good players throughout the first round.
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
I added front 5 for that reason. There are some more DL type guys in this class who could really beef up the interior.
Agree. Watt was mid teens right? Guys can come from anywhere if the talent is there. But the obvious guys usually go early
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
JJ Watt went 11th. TJ Watt went 30.
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
An underrated trait for front 5 players is motor. The dudes who are tenacious generally find a way to stick.
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
Another Maxx Crosby trait
phillycard
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Ohhhh, so I shouldn't look to get that 54 any time soon is what you're saying. Sheeez Prox, give the guy a chance to get his first game check before you cast him aside.
outcent13
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Jalen Thompson was a supplemental 5th rounder and he’s been pretty damn good.
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He’s a solid starter. Not a star.
BACH
Superbowl, Homeboy!
In between. He’s in the 2nd tier IMO
The problem is there isn't much else so if drafting #12 next year a team could be picking Edge #3 or DT #4.
It's legit weak at QB and WR (and to some extent OT) which usual push those guys back to the 20's.
Top 10 could really be all DT, Edge and CB, and possible Malaki Starks at safety.
He's nowhere near a star or 2nd tier. He's not a top 20 safety in the league.
He's massively overrated by this fan base because he was a 5th round pick and he's not trash.
He's solid to above average. He's a Julian Love, Andre Cisco, Darnell Savage level player and completely replaceable.
He was paid with expectations he would ascend and has plateaued at solid/above average. He needs to step up this year to justify his pay, he's still the 10th highest paid safety in the league and his deal is 2 years old, but he's nowhere close to top 10 in play.
DVontel
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This just isn’t true.
It's weak. There are first round guys there like Burden and McMillan but it's nowhere near as good as recent drafts.
Things can change over the next season but right now guys like Egbuka and Bond are back of the 1st round guys and I don't think Burden and McMillan go top 10. Burden has a chance if he has another good year and measures and tests well, but I don't think teams will be falling over themselves to draft a 5'10" 180lb WR in the top 10 (There's no way he's 210 as listed).
But it's irrelevant. My point is that there's not 3 WR's, 3 QB's or 3 OT's going top 10 (or some combo of the 3) that is going to push down top defensive talent as usually happens.
On average you might see 1 DT and 2 Edge go in the top 10. Next year that might well be 6.
DVontel
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Burden & McMillan would have gone before Rome & Rome just went top 10, lol.
Evan Stewart & Emeka would have gone before Brian Thomas. That’s not even mentioning Bond who probably would have gone before Thomas as well. Hard to beat a class with top-heavy names like MHJR & Nabers, but 2025 competes with it while easily having better depth.
BACH
Superbowl, Homeboy!
Depending on how you define 2nd tier then.
My definition. Above average = 2nd tier. His appraisals from national media, experts and his salary would certainly support that grouping.
5 - Star
4 - above average
3 - solid starter
2 - Fringe starter - solid back-up
1 - Deep back-up
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
So many talented players are being pushed into the WR role at young ages and it is really showing in the draft classes.
Proximo
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I'm just saying physically he doesn't have elite traits which are almost always required to actually become elite.Ohhhh, so I shouldn't look to get that 54 any time soon is what you're saying. Sheeez Prox, give the guy a chance to get his first game check before you cast him aside.
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
This is just wrong. Marcus Williams is one of the best Ss in the league and JTs stats are comparable and while on a team with a terrible pass rush.
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
Too early to tell at QB but looks like Beck, Sanders and Ewers all have a shot at the first round. There are also some other underclassman QBs who could move up.
Solid WR class with good 1st round talent across early, middle and late 1st round.
Pretty good 1st round CB class.
Brugler has 3 OTs in the preseason top 15.
And then the nice defensive front 7 group.
There will be plenty of options to pick from who fill both need and quality.
This might be the funniest thing I've read of this board. Imagine thinking Marcus Williams and Jalen Thompson are in the same league.
Williams has 20 career interceptions vs 9 for JT and has 54 PD's vs 28.
Williams has 2 more years in the league, but on a per year basis Williams has far better stats.
Williams was PFF's 5th rated safety last year. JT was 27th.
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
Williams also has 40 more starts and 2200 more snaps than JT does.
Jalen Thompson had a much better statistical 2023 than Williams did while playing on perhaps the most dogwater defense in the NFL with almost zero support from the offense.
I'm pretty sure I mentioned Williams has 2 more years and on a per year basis he's statistically far better than JT.
But also I'm pretty sure both you and Chopper have said numerous times that stats can be misleading. I guarantee you that nobody in the league, either as players or coaches, or around the league as analysts or reporters, thinks that JT and Williams are in the same league.
Williams is universally accepted as a top 10 safety. JT is in nobodies top 10.
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
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You said he wasn't top 20. He is close enough to Marcus Williams production to be a top 20 S. He is easily a top 20 S in the NFL. Give me 20 Ss in the NFL better than JT and we can look at the stats.
You find me any list put together by anyone that has JT as a top 20 safety. Heck see if you can find anyone that gives him an honourable mention.
Winfield
Hamilton
Budda
Bates
Minkah
Williams
Holland
James
McKinney
Byard
Hufanga
All 3 Vikings safeties
Alohi Gilman
Kam Curl
Geno Stone
CGJ
Simmons
Badger
Dugger
Pitre
Branch
Cisco
Peppers
That's 25.
There's an ESPN article below where league execs, scouts and coaches rank their top 10 but it lists all who received a single vote and there are 25. Guess who isn't on it?
Who are the NFL's best safeties? Execs, coaches and scouts help rank 2024's top 10
Who are the best safeties in the NFL? Execs, coaches and scouts from around the league ranked their top 10 in our annual summer series.
JT is a guy. He's a solid guy. Occasionally a good guy. But there are a whole lot of better safeties in the league.
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