You have to mind your future picks

[Gaddabout]

I see a lot of people willing to give away first-round picks for back-up big men. This is a sketchy practice, even though the Suns can probably expect a late-round pick the next few years. You never know what you're giving away because you can't look that far down the road.

In Jan. 1980, the Cleveland Cavaliers traded away journeyman guard Butch Lee and their first-round pick in 1982 to the Lakers for back-up power forward Don Ford and the 1980 first-round pick. Ford was out of basketball at the end of the '82 season. The pick they got in 1980 was the No. 22 (second-to-last pick) of the first round.

The Cavs tanked in 1982. This was unforseen in 1979. They had been at or near the top of their division throughout the 70s, and in 1979, they were acquiring talent to make another run. The bottom fell out in 1982, but in their rush to make a run, they gave away one of the Top 50 all-time players in the NBA, a kid named James Worthy. The Lakers didn't need him -- they had Jamaal Wilkes, and a couple of pretty good players in Magic Johnson and Kareem. But that was the luck of the Lakers and the short-sightedness of the rest of the NBA back then.

Another team that could have panicked like the Cavs was the San Antonio Spurs. After consecutive 55-, 62-, and 59-win seasons, the only thing they hadn't accomplished was winning a title. Trading away a future first-rounder made a lot sense to acquire whatever missing piece they needed to get over the top. Instead, they went with what they had. Then, during the 96-97 season, their world crumbled. Injuries caused the losses of David Robinson (played 6 games) and Sean Elliot (played 39 games). What looked like a crisis turned into a blessing. They had the No. 1 pick in the 97 draft. That turned out to be Tim Duncan.

Before you go trading away a future pick to help the bench, consider history. If Nash were to go down for 40+ games, the team's future would be changed dramatically. If any two starters are lost, it's a lottery team for sure.

I think history shows drafting and free agency is the best way to build a ball club. Unless you are adding starter who's going to play out a reasonable contract, trading first-round picks is iffy at best.

Just something to think about ...

 

[panfolk]

Thank you for your articulate post. By any chance could you make a post against trading Marion? I'm not informed enough for that but I believe him to be indispensable.

 

[PhxGametime]

Trading 1st Round Picks? Like the one the Suns just Traded for KT


With Conditional Picks these days, it won't hurt as much as it would've years ago and the Suns Trade Picks a lot, the team just doesn't Draft as well as it once did and if it can help the team (adding a young guy) for Voskuhl, then I might be interested. I'm not sure, who'd be available for $2 Million though?


The Draft won't be as strong next year, this would be the TIME to Trade one, IMO. If you get a younger big in return.

With Magloire, Anderson, Brown, West, Lampe, Vroman, Lynch, etc. on that team - I'm not sure the Suns would want Lampe or Vroman back but David West could be pretty decent. He could play PF and with KT and Stat capable of playing Center, and Marion available at the 4... it's not that bad of a frontcourt.


Chris Mihm, Kris Humphries, Melvin Ely, etc. I don't want to look at every single team, I wouldn't want to be a GM. There are probably a few decent options... a Trade wouldn't hurt that bad.

 

[Gaddabout]

Trading 1st Round Picks? Like the one the Suns just Traded for KT

KT's a starter and theoretically would play out for three years. Even if you think KT's coming off the bench, he's at least going to get starter minutes. That fits the bill that I set out above.

 

[playstation]

I hear what your saying Gaddabout, but you also have to acknowledge what was already said about conditional draft picks.

Anecdotal evidence is welcomed, but at the same time I could say that my grandpa smoked a pack a day and lived to 100. that doesn't make smoking safe.

similarly, the chicago bulls last year traded away a future draft pick in order to get better right away. it worked pretty well for them. you remember the 1 time it screwed a team over because that's what gets the press. all the times that either helped or were neutral are forgotten.

if you protect the pick when you trade, sometimes its worth it, and imo this is one of those times. I really believe that at this point, we are literally ONE piece away from being right there with SA for the title, and that is a competent backup big man. that's not exactly the biggest piece in the world to be missing, and if you're that close, i'd say the risk is worth it.

 

[Joe Mama]

Vancouver Grizzlies traded away a highly protected draft pick as part of their deal to get Otis Thorpe awhile back. The Grizzlies were so bad that the Detroit Pistons didn't get the pick until almost all of that action had run out. They ended up with the #2 pick in the 2003 draft. They took Darko. So far he hasn't done much, but they could have taken Carmelo Anthony, Dwayne Wade, or Chris Bosh.

Still, as long as the Phoenix Suns put top 20 protection on a first-round draft pick it's probably a safe trade. I just don't understand why the other team would want a low first-round draft pick in the first draft with no high school players. I certainly don't think it would be enough to get a team to give up a quality Center even if we threw in Barbosa.

I also don't think the Phoenix Suns will give up on Barbosa, give away a first-round draft pick, and I certainly don't believe they will throw in any significant amount of money for someone who likely will only play 10-15 minutes per game. I think they will see what falls to them in free agency, and they will look at people from the summer league.

Joe Mama

 

[sunsfn]

I have always valued picks and think it is very important what you do with them. The Spurs in recent years have kept most of their late picks and have drafted two starting guards with them.

The one 1st pick that the spurs traded to the suns will be a very good player and our back-up point guard next year. Remember, it takes 3 years to make it in this league for most players. Barbosa next year will be a very good player and the next year even better.

At this time of the year a low first pick for next year is not worth a lot anyway, so I agree with Joe Mama, they will wait to see what falls through the cracks like they did with Hunter last year.

The only way they would do something soon is if someone wants to take Jake off our hands for a player that duplicates their team, or for a 2nd round pick, and that would free up the money from Jake to pay a back-up center.

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[F-Dog]

Don't tell us, tell the Suns' brain trust.

My guess is that most of us feel more strongly about keeping draft picks than they do.

 

[devilalum]

The Suns obviously don't share your feelings about draft picks. They use them like toilet paper. Like I said in another thread, " I will bet the Suns will trade away a first round pick before the season starts."

Draft picks are a tradable commodity, just like Voskuhl and any other player the Suns see as not being a part of their strategy. If you could trade a future #1 for a really good PG prospect you'd do it in a second. If the Suns traded a future #1 for Paul Shirley we'd all be pissed.

 

[George O'Brien]

My feeling is that it trading a pick only makes sense when the player received is someone worth drafting in the mid first round. Trading a first for a journeyman PG like one proposal makes zerio sense to me.

 

[sunsfn]

The Suns obviously don't share your feelings about draft picks. They use them like toilet paper. Like I said in another thread, " I will bet the Suns will trade away a first round pick before the season starts."

Draft picks are a tradable commodity, just like Voskuhl and any other player the Suns see as not being a part of their strategy. If you could trade a future #1 for a really good PG prospect you'd do it in a second. If the Suns traded a future #1 for Paul Shirley we'd all be pissed.

I have not been happy with the suns in giving away some of their picks in the last 2 years. (Jazz trades)

One of the biggest gaffs was last year in giving away the 7th pick before they should have. Iguodala would look great on this team. However, we may not have Kurt Thomas because of it. So..........?

But, this team is not rebuilding at this time, they are trying to get veteran players that can help right now. Draft picks do not help right now.

By saying the suns would trade away their first pick this last year is an easy thing to say. They wanted to find a veteran with that pick. (and they did) The 21st pick would not have helped them this year or maybe for the next 3 years and he would have cost a lot of money to set on the bench and take up a spot a good veteran player would have. This team is not going to play rookies a lot because they are trying to win every game and go all the way.

In past years the suns have done an excellent job with their draft picks.
If you are drafting after #15 it is hard to get an all star, but getting someone that can help is having an excellent draft.

Marion, #9, The rest of these below that. Finley, Nash, Garrity, Barbosa, Casey Jacobson, (good solid player that will be around a long time) Cabarkapa, (he will be around a lot of years), Vromann on the 2nd pick was a very good pick and he will be around for many years. (he has signed a new contract)
So the suns have done quite well drafting.

The part of last year that I did not like, was Sarver not letting the team carry more than 12 players. The suns could have signed a young cheap backup point guard and let him stay on the IR until they needed him and then switched Shirley there to use him. After a couple months, he could have helped the team late in the year to give Nash some valuable minutes on the bench. (When you sign a backup point to a 10 day contract, that does not work because he does not know the team and the players)

This year with the 14 players roster, the suns can stash a backup point from the summer league for the cheap and hopefully have him for the future.


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[George O'Brien]

The decision to carry only 12 players may have been motivated by economics, but realistically they didn't need all 12 Shirley was more of an imbedded reporter than a player, Bo was a human victory cigar, and Jake did mostly DNP.

With the development league, guys like Lucas Tischer and Stephen Graham have a real chance of catching on. Tischer could be a nice prospect but seems extremely unlikely to get minutes

 

[Mainstreet]

IMO, the key to trading first round draft picks is if the team sending the pick can acquire proven talent in return that will give a number of quality years of service and there are no can't miss players on the board. Thus, I am much more inclined to trade late first round picks for talent rather than early first round picks

This year's draft appears to have been very much a crapshoot but last year's draft was solid at number 7. The Suns should have waited to see who was there. However, since the Suns likelihood of drafting early in the next three years appear slim (I agree one never knows for sure), I am much more likely to trade first round draft picks for proven talent. If the Suns can trade a first round draft pick or two for a young c/pf that has already demonstrated upside in a package with Voshkuhl, it become a no-brainer for me. Afterall most picks in the draft are made on potential and few are a sure thing anyway.



Also the Suns need to factor in they already have the key players to make a Championship run. Young quality depth at the c/pf position would not only help now but in the future.

 

[PhxGametime]

"The 21st pick would not have helped them this year or maybe for the next 3 years and he would have cost a lot of money to set on the bench and take up a spot a good veteran player would have."


The 30th Pick, could've helped team and would be much cheaper, than the centers the team is looking to add for $1.7 (nobody here is even impressed with list)... just because some teams, don't know how to Draft and can't find Prospects that can't help Late Round. Look at Tony Parker, Jamaal Tinsley, Josh Howard, etc. I don't know most off top of my head. This will be the DEEPEST Draft in many a year and they Traded Pick, when they didn't have-to

Next year's Draft should be pretty weak and I'm not the only one saying that...


And I don't see any veteran player the team has added yet? The Team still needs 4-5 spots and there just isn't any veteran that I'd rather have than example Francisco Garcia...

 

[overseascardfan]

If we lose Hunter we have to get another C. I don't think they will be able to get one through free agency so a trade is the only other way. I would try to get a Ely, Gadzuric (sign and trade), Cato (he's just as good as Hunter), Pryzbilla, Ratliff, or Harrison of Indiana. With an offer of Voskuhl and a 1st rounder some of these guys might be available.

 

[Mainstreet]

Quote: overseascardfan

If we lose Hunter we have to get another C. I don't think they will be able to get one through free agency so a trade is the only other way. I would try to get a Ely, Gadzuric (sign and trade), Cato (he's just as good as Hunter), Pryzbilla, Ratliff, or Harrison of Indiana. With an offer of Voskuhl and a 1st rounder some of these guys might be available.

I particularly like the first two names on your list: Ely, Gadzuric. Most on this Board seem to have different favorites, however, almost everyone agrees the Suns need at least another 4/5.

Personally, I would also like another backup PG on the roster just for insurance if nothing else.

 

[coloradosun]

My feeling is that it trading a pick only makes sense when the player received is someone worth drafting in the mid first round. Trading a first for a journeyman PG like one proposal makes zerio sense to me.

The Suns have been trading 1st round picks in the offseason when they want to secure cap space to sign FA's. It was necessary last year to add veteran players to improve quickly, done. It was done this year to be able to match offers to their own FA (JJ), done. From here on out I don't see the Suns having to move another 1st rounder for cap space, not for a while anyhoe.