Zac Allen and Byron Murphy are free agents

[Stout]

Yes Cox signed a huge deal back in 2016 with a different regime. Because of his contract they couldn't really do anything with it until 2022 where he was a cap causality. Then he was re-signed.

Hargrave a DT was signed in 2020 and his cap hit was as follows:
2020 $3.45M
2021 $5.79M
2022 $17M
Hargrave went to the Niners on a big contract in 2023

Jordan Davis DT
2022 $3M
2023 $3.8M
2024 $4.6M
2025 $4.6M

Jalen Carter DT
2023 $3.9M
2024 $4.9M
2025 $5.9M
2026 $6.9M

Josh Sweat DE
2021 $3M
2022 $3.6M
2023 $5.8M
2024 $9M

Brandon Graham DE
2020 $6.28M
2021 $8M
2022 $9M
2023 $10M
2024 $7.9M

Derek Barnnet DE
2020 $4M
2021 $3M
2022 $2.6M

So I'm speculating that JG may have a similar system where he rotates his DE/DTs but the contracts hit the cap at a reasonable amount. Hence a good collection of rookies on rookie deals and solid Vets in the $10M ish range.

First round picks are a major investment, meaning you don't get to use it elsewhere. Cap space isn't the only resource available to a team. In fact, it should be far less valuable/more fungible than draft picks.

 

[MadCardDisease]

The coaching staff doesn't decide who gets paid what. The Eagles front office made their priorities pretty clear about how they allocate resources.

Well when I watch the Eagles play under Nick Sirianni it sure seems that he likes to rotate his DL pretty frequently. So far that is what I have seen with JG and his staff. Maybe the coaching staff has a say in the type of player getting brought in?

 

[kerouac9]

Well when I watch the Eagles play under Nick Sirianni it sure seems that he likes to rotate his DL pretty frequently. So far that is what I have seen with JG and his staff. Maybe the coaching staff has a say in the type of player getting brought in?

Okay. But that doesn't explain away the investment in draft picks.

Fletcher Cox is playing 61% of the defensive snaps on a $10 million contract at age 33.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Fletcher Cox is playing 61% of the defensive snaps on a $10 million contract at age 33.

I know right, he is amazing. Kind of like Calais hanging around forever.

 

[Chopper0080]

Snap counts...basically opportunity. IMO, we have to look at opportunity as it relates to performance results.

Opportunities are based upon talent and then the talent of your teammates on your roster as well as how your coaching staff manages them. It is a non-starter in these debates because people will cite whatever fits their argument.

I can say Stills can barely get snaps on a bad Cardinals d-line. That shows he isn't close to being as good as Allen. You can say Stills would get more stats, closer to Allen, if he got more snaps. I can then say Allen faces tougher competition for stats because he plays with more talent from a pass rushing standpoint than Stills.

It is endless. More appropriate to go off of who consistently produces stats with context and not result variant (pressures vs sacks). The better players have more opportunity which results in more stats.

 

[Chopper0080]

He is an average player making well above average money. His contract would take up almost a third of the Cardinals available cap space next season. It would be crazy to tie up that much money in an average player. Fortunately the Cardinals dodged that bullet and don't have to deal with that contract next season.

Except his statistical production is above average.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I wasn't saying we missed with Ojulari, but being forced to spend high draft capital or big FA dollars would signal the team feels they have missed with him, and that would be on Monti.

Premium positions are worth using high second round picks.

I honestly think Ojulari will never be a top pass rusher, but will be a player that ends up being a solid value where he was drafted. Kind of Robin to the top pass rushers Batman. That's why I'm not opposed to using the Texans pick on an edge like Latu or Verse.

I think DT should be addressed in FA. Wilkins or Madubuike should be a priority.

 

[DVontel]

I wasn't saying we missed with Ojulari, but being forced to spend high draft capital or big FA dollars would signal the team feels they have missed with him, and that would be on Monti.

I don’t understand this is the conclusion you draw. EDGE/pass-rusher is one of the few positions you WANT to double dip on even if it takes another premium pick. That’s the position you WANT to continue to strengthen. It’s a trench pick. A very important one. If there’s a EDGE, WR, & OT that had the same quality, I’m going with the EDGE.

If anything, that signals Monti knows what he’s doing.

 

[ajcardfan]

I wasn't saying we missed with Ojulari, but being forced to spend high draft capital or big FA dollars would signal the team feels they have missed with him, and that would be on Monti.

I hope we are totally in on BPA in this draft regardless of position. We are far too talent starved to be thinking like "We took an EDGE player in Rd 2 last year, he might still be really good. I know we have this Dline player rated higher, but let's take this CB instead because we haven't checked that box in Rd 1 or 2."

 

[Yuma]

I hope we are totally in on BPA in this draft regardless of position. We are far too talent starved to be thinking like "We took an EDGE player in Rd 2 last year, he might still be really good. I know we have this Dline player rated higher, but let's take this CB instead because we haven't checked that box in Rd 1 or 2."

I like BPA, but we need OL and DL. Bring in the big nasties!!

 

[Chopper0080]

Premium positions are worth using high second round picks.

I honestly think Ojulari will never be a top pass rusher, but will be a player that ends up being a solid value where he was drafted. Kind of Robin to the top pass rushers Batman. That's why I'm not opposed to using the Texans pick on an edge like Latu or Verse.

I think DT should be addressed in FA. Wilkins or Madubuike should be a priority.

Madubuike is interesting because he is a FA year standout. His stats this year are significantly better than any other year in his career.

 

[BritCard]

Here is the disingenuous nature of this argument. Aaron Donald leads non-edge NFL defensive players in pressures. Zach Allen is tied for 10th with Christian Wilkins in that group.

Zach Allen has 20 pressures and 5 sacks.

Aaron Donald has 27 pressures and 6 sacks.

Christian Wilkins has 20 pressures and 6.5 sacks.

Deforest Buckner has 19 pressures and 5.5 sacks.

Quinnen Williams has 21 pressures and 3 sacks.

Chris Jones has 23 pressures and 7.5 sacks.

So here is the thing. If you crap all over Zach Allen's production, but are ok with all of these other players, including Wilkins who some on this board want to pay significantly more money than Allen gets paid, you are not looking at this objectively. Essentially, you don't want to pay any player who isn't have a top 5 year at their position or producing high variance stats like sacks and interceptions.

It's not just stats, although his stats aren't all you're making them out to be, all those players have careers far better than Allen. Many of them are having down years while Allen is peaking.

Allen is having an ok year, like he has most years, that's who he is. He's an ok player who has ok years. A completely anonymous guy that most NFL fans couldn't name if you showed them his picture.

He's fine. He's a decent addition to most rosters. Just not at $15.25m per year. I do not understand people going on about him like we lost Javon Hargrave or Cam Heyward.

He's Zach Seiler, who signed a 3 year $30.75m deal in August.

It would have been an enormous waste of resources to sign such a middling guy to a contract like that on a rebuilding roster. Zach Allen is a complimentary guy. He's never going to be the guy and I have no interest on paying as one.

 

[Stout]

Premium positions are worth using high second round picks.

I honestly think Ojulari will never be a top pass rusher, but will be a player that ends up being a solid value where he was drafted. Kind of Robin to the top pass rushers Batman. That's why I'm not opposed to using the Texans pick on an edge like Latu or Verse.

I think DT should be addressed in FA. Wilkins or Madubuike should be a priority.

Now I think you're just being purposefully obtuse. Read the posts before you respond, man. I'm not repeating myself a third time lol

 

[Chopper0080]

It's not just stats, although his stats aren't all you're making them out to be, all those players have careers far better than Allen. Many of them are having down years while Allen is peaking.

Allen is having an ok year, like he has most years, that's who he is. He's an ok player who has ok years. A completely anonymous guy that most NFL fans couldn't name if you showed them his picture.

He's fine. He's a decent addition to most rosters. Just not at $15.25m per year. I do not understand people going on about him like we lost Javon Hargrave or Cam Heyward.

He's Zach Seiler, who signed a 3 year $30.75m deal in August.

It would have been an enormous waste of resources to sign such a middling guy to a contract like that on a rebuilding roster. Zach Allen is a complimentary guy. He's never going to be the guy and I have no interest on paying as one.

Again. His year is better than ok. And he is consistent. And he is 26. 15.25 per year is appropriate for his age and production. Other than "I don't think so" there isn't a valid argument to dispute that.

 

[Chopper0080]

This is where people got DJ Humphries wrong as well.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Madubuike is interesting because he is a FA year standout. His stats this year are significantly better than any other year in his career.

He had 5.5 sacks last year though, so he has been getting better each year.

I'm more comfortable giving a big contract to a guy who has double digit sacks than I am giving a guy who's career high was 5.5.

 

[cardncubfan]

The silliness of ASFN is statements that these stat lines are basically the same for interior defensive line players.

6 hurries
7 QB knockdowns
5 sacks
20 pressures

and

2 hurries
1 QB knockdown
3.5 sacks
7 pressures

I would say the silliness of AFSN is arguing about not signing a guy who didn't want to sign here because he wanted to follow his DC to their new team.

 

[TheCardFan]

Again. His year is better than ok. And he is consistent. And he is 26. 15.25 per year is appropriate for his age and production. Other than "I don't think so" there isn't a valid argument to dispute that.

And Zach Allen said he wanted to play for VJ - loves his coaching style.

Maybe HE didn't want to be here.

See Byron Murphy.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

He had 5.5 sacks last year though, so he has been getting better each year.

I'm more comfortable giving a big contract to a guy who has double digit sacks than I am giving a guy who's career high was 5.5.

See Phillips, Jordan. One year wonders should always be viewed with a jaundiced eye.

 

[kerouac9]

See Phillips, Jordan. One year wonders should always be viewed with a jaundiced eye.

That's what I thought of immediately, also. Although Phillips was a bum for four seasons and Buffalo gave him a second chance after the trade on a small one-year deal.

I think Madubuike has a little more pedigree entering free agency. Baltimore only has $4.1 million in effective cap space next season an a TON of pending free agents who are contributors.

 

[Krangodnzr]

See Phillips, Jordan. One year wonders should always be viewed with a jaundiced eye.

But he isn't a one year wonder...

 

[ASUCHRIS]

But he isn't a one year wonder...

Chopper sez - "Madubuike is interesting because he is a FA year standout. His stats this year are significantly better than any other year in his career."

Article says:

https://www.si.com/nfl/ravens/news/ravens-baltimore-justin-madubuike-career-year-rams-aaron-donald

At least someone coached him well here:

"When I think about getting paid, it doesn't work for me," he said. "When I think about being a freaking monster and being great, all that's going to come.''

 

[Krangodnzr]

That's what I thought of immediately, also. Although Phillips was a bum for four seasons and Buffalo gave him a second chance after the trade on a small one-year deal.

I think Madubuike has a little more pedigree entering free agency. Baltimore only has $4.1 million in effective cap space next season an a TON of pending free agents who are contributors.

His second best year matches Allen's year, so yeah it's not like he is a one year wonder.

 

[kerouac9]

His second best year matches Allen's year, so yeah it's not like he is a one year wonder.

Jordan Phillips Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats for Jordan Phillips. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, college, draft, and more on Pro-football-reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

I guess? He had one season with 9.5 sacks on a one-year deal. Before then he never had more than 2 sacks or four pressures in a season.

Allen's pretty consistently had four sacks or more and 650+ snaps the past three seasons. Based on his current trajectory, he seems to bet getting better and may surpass that production. Which is why he seemed like a good opportunity to extend.

 

[outcent13]

Gotta spend the money somewhere. All these guys will have warts otherwise their team will keep them regardless of their current cap situation.

Would have loved to see Allen with this coaching staff but it is what it is.