Zaven Collins vs Isaiah Simmons

[Lomax to Green 84]

If the Cards decide that Zaven Collins is the choice at #16 or in a trade down, let’s take a look at how they compare from a physical and football skill standpoint.

Height-even. Both are 6’4” or 6’5”
Weight-advantage Collins
Speed-advantage Simmons
Strength-advantage Collins
Long Speed-advantage Simmons
Short area explosiveness-even
Open field tackling-advantage Collins
Coverage-advantage Simmons
Experience playing linebacker-advantage Collins
Versatility-even
Rushing the passer-advantage Collins
Ability to play deep coverage-advantage Simmons
Ability to play on the edge-advantage Collins
Run defense-advantage Collins

Conclusion-combined Simmons and Collins offer talent, size, speed, pass rush, coverage skills.

 

[BritCard]

I won't lie. A long term Collins and Simmons partnership makes me a little moist.

Although, it seems Keim has eyes on him for OLB and not ILB.

 

[az jam]

He is roughly 6' 5" 259 lbs just about the same as Chandler Jones. Bottom line he is really an OLB.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I won't lie. A long term Collins and Simmons partnership makes me a little moist.

Although, it seems Keim has eyes on him for OLB and not ILB.

Yeah the prospect of a bigger and faster keuchly and Davis pairing has me a bit salivating.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

So two supremely gifted LBs Vance won’t know how to use?

 

[DVontel]

Cowboys the most recent team to try build around their ILBs with early picks, now look at them.

You build from the trenches & CBs 1st, not ILBs.

 

[juza76]

Cowboys the most recent team to try build around their ILBs with early picks, now look at them.

You build from the trenches & CBs 1st, not ILBs.

QB
OT
WR
OLB/DE
CB
interior linemen
DT
SAFETY
ILB
TE
RB
K
PUNTER
RETURNER

 

[Finito]

Cowboys the most recent team to try build around their ILBs with early picks, now look at them.

You build from the trenches & CBs 1st, not ILBs.

the entire cowboys offensive line has fallen apart and that’s why they are so bad you can’t ignore that

 

[DVontel]

the entire cowboys offensive line has fallen apart and that’s why they are so bad you can’t ignore that

Their offensive line was the reason their defense gave up historic numbers?

 

[BigDavis75]

Cowboys the most recent team to try build around their ILBs with early picks, now look at them.

You build from the trenches & CBs 1st, not ILBs.

The Bucs just won the super bowl with two excellent off ball linebackers, there are one off examples everywhere.

 

[kerouac9]

The Bucs just won the super bowl with two excellent off ball linebackers, there are one off examples everywhere.

And one DL with a crab-claw hand. Are there any prospects with a crab claw?

 

[Finito]

Their offensive line was the reason their defense gave up historic numbers?

no they gave up historic numbers because the locker room has become toxic and you can tell guys flat out quit during the year.

 

[QuebecCard]

Cowboys the most recent team to try build around their ILBs with early picks, now look at them.

You build from the trenches & CBs 1st, not ILBs.

Did you see T-Bay's ILB's in action during the Super Bowl?

Bet that if Todd Bowles was our D-Coordinator he'd have no problem with the pick.

 

[PACardsFan]

no they gave up historic numbers because the locker room has become toxic and you can tell guys flat out quit during the year.

They also gave up historic numbers because they tried to run a defense that didn’t remotely fit the defensive roster they had. Like none of their starters had ever played that system in their college or pro careers.

 

[Finito]

They also gave up historic numbers because they tried to run a defense that didn’t remotely fit the defensive roster they had. Like none of their starters had ever played that system in their college or pro careers.

oh it’s a dumpster fire and I love every minute

 

[WisconsinCard]

Keep him as an islb and that's our Dasby - D waste combo all over again.

 

[Proximo]

Keep him as an islb and that's our Dasby - D waste combo all over again.

I don't think he will work as an ILB the more I watch him. He's just to slow. That is the whole knock on Hicks, and this guy is really not much faster. I actually think if we take him, converting him to OLB would make more sense, which is why I don't want to pick him because conversions are highly risky.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't think he will work as an ILB the more I watch him. He's just to slow. That is the whole knock on Hicks, and this guy is really not much faster. I actually think if we take him, converting him to OLB would make more sense, which is why I don't want to pick him because conversions are highly risky.

Really? Everything I’ve seen has been him flying sideline to sideline. What you’re suggesting is the opposite of every write-up about him as well.

 

[Shane]

Really? Everything I’ve seen has been him flying sideline to sideline. What you’re suggesting is the opposite of every write-up about him as well.

yep all the exoerts I’ve watched the last week or 2 have stated he is very quick sideline to sideline player... I’d be ok with him....

 

[kerouac9]

I don't think he will work as an ILB the more I watch him. He's just to slow. That is the whole knock on Hicks, and this guy is really not much faster. I actually think if we take him, converting him to OLB would make more sense, which is why I don't want to pick him because conversions are highly risky.

Look at that FO piece I linked to earlier in the thread (or elsewhere). He has plenty of speed, but the Tulsa defense required him to be patient to read and identify opportunities and pull the trigger when the time is right. He has better instincts than Reddick did coming in.

 

[WisconsinCard]

I don't think he will work as an ILB the more I watch him. He's just to slow. That is the whole knock on Hicks, and this guy is really not much faster. I actually think if we take him, converting him to OLB would make more sense, which is why I don't want to pick him because conversions are highly risky.

I don't doubt that he can play either position. I was just stating that the combo of simmons and collins reminded me of the best lb combo we've had in az.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't doubt that he can play either position. I was just stating that the combo of simmons and collins reminded me of the best lb combo we've had in az.

One would think it would certainly have the talent to be that.

 

[Proximo]

So I saw he ran a 4.67 40, and knowing that is at a pro day you have to add at least a tenth of a second to that.

4.7 is a slow mlb in today’s nfl.

I see his 10 yard time is much better now that I looked it up, but he does not look that fast to me on video.

He might be ok if he drops 30 pounds, but I don’t know I just am not that excited by what I am seeing from him.

 

[juza76]

Collins reminds me dansby a lot, dansby was an OLB in college, and in the first year as a Cardinals he played on the outside
Collins has the same measurables and athleticism
Reading from one poster isn't fast enough, I don't know if he is talking about the same player... The guy considering his weight has great quickness and sideline to sideline speed

However we have other priorities, so I would prefer a cb or a offensive linemen with a trade down option


Then I don't see how Simmons is similar to Washington, both outstanding athletes but Daryl Washington had so much better instict, not even comparable
When a lb react 0.5 faster and has the acceleration speed as Washington is pretty unlikely to imitate, unfortunately he did prefer to throw away an outstanding career

 

[Proximo]

The nfl has changed a lot since dansby was in his prime.

I just don’t think you want 260 pound lumbering mlbs anymore. TE coverage is more important than stopping the run now.