76ers @ Suns Saturday game thread 2-13-2021

[Cheesebeef]

Come on, Cheese. That's totally unfair.

Boris Diaw could catch passes.

ha!

Aytons offensive regression is unlike anything I can remember on a Suns team. It’s so weird.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'd want some change back like a first round pick.

I wonder what a trade for Nikola Vucevic would look like with the Suns getting picks in return.

I wasn’t espousing Ayton for capella. I was saying I’d only entertain trading Ayton if we had signed capella.

that said, other than his youth I’m unsure Ayton has a great deal more value than capella at present.

 

[Carolinacacti]

This is playoff basketball, Crowder, Cam Johnson and Bridges should be taking this many shots 13. Let Booker, Paul and Super Mario take the shots.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I get people are frustrated with Ayton. But I think it's way overblown. He is a legit top defensive center now. Is he a go to scorer no. Do we really need him to be? No, we need him to learn to be a good roller in the pick n roll, and to get offensive put backs.

I actually think he is a far better fit for this team than Towns would be. I still think he is going to get it as the season continues. We will see, but I really like the trajectory this team is on.

is he a top defensive C when going up against other top big men that he’ll have to face in the playoffs? In his last four games against playoff big men that he matched up with, he gave up 47/15 to Giannis, 35/8 to Embiid, and 30/15/8 in two matchups with Jokic.

and I beg to differ that this team doesn’t need him to be a go to scorer... if they want to contend for a title. Title teams need that consistent third option on offense.

 

[Suns_fan69]

This was the game I was thinking of last year when Booker went off on Simmons in the clutch as well.

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I love these back to back moves. Set him up with the step back to blow by with the hesitation on the next offensive possession. Just totally schooled Simmons there.

 

[Hoop Head]

yeah... I don’t buy that as far as Towns is concerned. He’s only 26 and he’s never have good coaching. He’s also been stuck on an awful team, with terrible leadership and he’s had as an atrocious year of life as possible. A change might bring a whole new guy out.

Towns had Thibs as his coach for a couple of years. I wouldn't consider that awful coaching. Thibs is doing good in NY this year with all of their bigs.

 

[Mainstreet]

I wasn’t espousing Ayton for capella. I was saying I’d only entertain trading Ayton if we had signed capella.

that said, other than his youth I’m unsure Ayton has a great deal more value than capella at present.

I wouldn't change anything with the Suns right now but it is fun kicking around ideas.

It might be something we want to revisit at the trade deadline.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Towns had Thibs as his coach for a couple of years. I wouldn't consider that awful coaching. Thibs is doing good in NY this year with all of their bigs.

that’s true. And one of those years he got him to buy in on D. But that is a good point.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

ha!

Aytons offensive regression is unlike anything I can remember on a Suns team. It’s so weird.

I don't know if it's a regression in the sense of ability as he has been more efficient than he was last year. He just isn't getting the same touches he was getting last year.

Last year how often did he get the ball at about the free throw line and make a jumper from there? I feel like that was about half of his offense.

This year he is either touching the ball at the 3 point line or close to the rim and the team isn't as likely to force the ball to him in lobs for instance because his primary ball handler is willing to pull up in the mid range if the lob or passing lane isn't clearly there.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

is he a top defensive C when going up against other top big men that he’ll have to face in the playoffs? In his last four games against playoff big men that he matched up with, he gave up 47/15 to Giannis, 35/8 to Embiid, and 30/15/8 in two matchups with Jokic.

and I beg to differ that this team doesn’t need him to be a go to scorer... if they want to contend for a title. Title teams need that consistent third option on offense.

Yeah, not only has he shrunk offensively again lately but his top end defense has abandoned him. Not only didn’t he stop those guys, not only didn’t he slow them, they outperformed against him. DominAyted him. And he looked like he was completely devoid of any confidence on either end against them (moreso the last two games than against jokic).

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't know if it's a regression in the sense of ability as he has been more efficient than he was last year. He just isn't getting the same touches he was getting last year.

Last year how often did he get the ball at about the free throw line and make a jumper from there? I feel like that was about half of his offense.

This year he is either touching the ball at the 3 point line or close to the rim and the team isn't as likely to force the ball to him in lobs for instance because his primary ball handler is willing to pull up in the mid range if the lob or passing lane isn't clearly there.

do... forget it. Yeah. He’s fine.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't know if it's a regression in the sense of ability as he has been more efficient than he was last year. He just isn't getting the same touches he was getting last year.

Last year how often did he get the ball at about the free throw line and make a jumper from there? I feel like that was about half of his offense.

This year he is either touching the ball at the 3 point line or close to the rim and the team isn't as likely to force the ball to him in lobs for instance because his primary ball handler is willing to pull up in the mid range if the lob or passing lane isn't clearly there.

Hmm I’m not sure I’d agree with the touches comment. I think the bigger issue is he “just” touches it this year instead of actually catching it. His hands are the most awful thing I’ve seen from a high end player on a basketball court.

 

[Hoop Head]

I'd want some change back like a first round pick.

I wonder what a trade for Nikola Vucevic would look like with the Suns getting picks in return.

If we traded Ayton for Vucevic then I'd prefer Bamba to a pick. I doubt Orlando would include a pick if they go into full rebuild. Bamba would give us a young big with potential.


Edit- Vucevic is making 26 million this year so swapping him for Ayton couldn't happen, even if we included Crowder or Saric in the deal the salaries aren't enough.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

If we traded Ayton for Vucevic then I'd prefer Bamba to a pick. I doubt Orlando would include a pick if they go into full rebuild. Bamba would give us a young big with potential.

Bamba is dreadful. Surprised me. I thought he’d at least be a serviceable defensive center.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

do... forget it. Yeah. He’s fine.

Did I say he's fine? No, so why respond that way?

I am simply suggesting that his lower numbers are due to his volume. He has always had warts offensively, but he was more comfortable in the situations he was presented with last year.

Where he was touching the ball a lot in the mid range where he would often just take the mid range jump shot. He isn't getting that look this year (rightfully because it isn't terribly efficient offense) and is getting most of his touches or potential touches in an area where he isn't very comfortable and that is catching the ball in traffic near the rim.

 

[Hoop Head]

ha!

Aytons offensive regression is unlike anything I can remember on a Suns team. It’s so weird.

I think its a little like the Polish Hammers, in a way. He backed up Lopez in his first year here and played really good, should have started, but when he was made the starter the next season and Lopez was gone, he didn't really improve despite the bigger role and increased minutes.

Also both tried giving themselves tough nicknames also but were pansies in the paint offensively.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think its a little like the Polish Hammers, in a way. He backed up Lopez in his first year here and played really good, should have started, but when he was made the starter the next season and Lopez was gone, he didn't really improve despite the bigger role and increased minutes.

Also both tried giving themselves tough nicknames also but were pansies in the paint offensively.

But the hammer didn’t have near the athleticism Ayton possesses. The only thing the hammer had on Ayton was acceptable hands.

 

[Mainstreet]

If we traded Ayton for Vucevic then I'd prefer Bamba to a pick. I doubt Orlando would include a pick if they go into full rebuild. Bamba would give us a young big with potential.


Edit- Vucevic is making 26 million this year so swapping him for Ayton couldn't happen, even if we included Crowder or Saric in the deal the salaries aren't enough.

Only bouncing some ideas around. It could probably be done in a multi-team trade.

 

[Mainstreet]

Paul and Booker play with a chip on their shoulder so they have some chemistry that way.

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[Cheesebeef]

Paul and Booker play with a chip on their shoulder so they have some chemistry that way.

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they are a dynamic backcourt. On par with Lillard/McCollum and as good as it gets in the league right now.

oh wait... I forgot about Kyrie/Harden.

man, those are three NASTY backcourts.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I don't know if it's a regression in the sense of ability as he has been more efficient than he was last year. He just isn't getting the same touches he was getting last year.

Last year how often did he get the ball at about the free throw line and make a jumper from there? I feel like that was about half of his offense.

This year he is either touching the ball at the 3 point line or close to the rim and the team isn't as likely to force the ball to him in lobs for instance because his primary ball handler is willing to pull up in the mid range if the lob or passing lane isn't clearly there.

The rest of the team is better. There are a lot more scorers. There are only so many touches in any given game. However, you can always play D. If the team is winning I am not going to worry about Aytons scoring much. I do want to see offensive efficiency, rebounding and defense.

 

[hcsilla]

Towns had Thibs as his coach for a couple of years. I wouldn't consider that awful coaching. Thibs is doing good in NY this year with all of their bigs.

Yes, Thibodeau is far from an awful coach, but at the same time he doesn't seem a proper coach for a rebuilding team either.

So I would happily take my chances on Towns under Monty.

I basically would leave this team as it is, the Ayton + assets (problem is the Suns have only a few to move) for Towns (but I don't think that the Wolves would bite unless Towns demands trade) is one of the few trades that I would seriously consider.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I keep waiting for Deandre to take off but Chris Paul is the Suns second star now.

Winning is what Devin Booker wants and needs.

Maybe in a couple of seasons Ayton will be there... maybe not. The Suns couldn't wait.

Ayton decided to not go hard to the rim on Danny stinkin Green yesterday. Amare takes that fools face off. So frustrating.

I agree. It's the Paul and Booker show. I'd try to move Ayton for a third star if that's possible. Limited upside and the Suns need to win with Booker in his prime.

The window on this will be closing soon. He won't be worth much IMO as we get closer to his contract expiration.

I get people are frustrated with Ayton. But I think it's way overblown. He is a legit top defensive center now. Is he a go to scorer no. Do we really need him to be? No, we need him to learn to be a good roller in the pick n roll, and to get offensive put backs.

What does legit top defensive center mean? Personally, if he receives any votes for All-Defensive team I would be surprised. 1st or 2nd team...... Stone cold SHOCKED.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Ayton decided to not go hard to the rim on Danny stinkin Green yesterday. Amare takes that fools face off. So frustrating.


The window on this will be closing soon. He won't be worth much IMO as we get closer to his contract expiration.


What does legit top defensive center mean? Personally, if he receives any votes for All-Defensive team I would be surprised. 1st or 2nd team...... Stone cold SHOCKED.

same. I think part of some fan’s belief that Ayton is a premiere defensive C has been built because of how bad he was as a rookie, so looking competent or even good in comparison skews his actual success. Teams still take it to the whole against us, he’s not a good help defender and lately he’s been getting torched in high profile C matchups.

he’s definitely MUCH better than he was a rookie and a good defensive C, but he’s nowhere close to a Goebert. And if he’s going to continue to be next to nothing on offense, that’s what he needs to be to make this team a title contender and not just a playoff contender, IMO.

 

[Mainstreet]

Ayton decided to not go hard to the rim on Danny stinkin Green yesterday. Amare takes that fools face off. So frustrating.

It's frustrating indeed.

For some reason Ayton plays with more intensity in the second half. I'm guessing it's because he received a few words of wisdom at halftime.