Broncos 16 Cardinals 13 Thoughts & Roster Ramifications

[Mitch]

QB (3): Skelton, Kolb, Lindley.

The offense for the entire pre-season was and remains out of sorts. All three QBs struggled with the execution, the timing and the breakdowns in protection.

It makes absolutely no sense to bench the #2 QB in this game, whomever he is and as much as one can respect Rich Bartel, it makes no sense to give him snaps when he is just going to be released anyway...although ironically for a small stretch there Bartel was looking as good as any QB we've seen this summer. Hope he's ok. Classy guy and player.

Lindley came out with far more attempts and playing time in the pre-season, which also makes little sense, seeing how much the top two struggled and were never given a whole half to get things going.

Quite possibly the worst coached, worst handled QB unit in the NFL this pre-season.

RB (4): Wells, Williams, Stephens-Howling, Powell.

Wells ran well---although he was a little slow out of the gates. Powell has made quite a name for himself---and with as dinged up as Hyphen gets, Powell's KO return ability gives him the edge on Alfonso Smith (who will be waiting for a call if and when the Cardinals need him this year).

FB (1): Sherman.

One of the better players on the team even as a sophomore.

OL (8): Batiste, Colledge, Sendlein, Snyder, Massie, Kelemete, Ohrnsberger, Bridges.

Weird handing of Bridges who basically played with the 2nd and 3rd lines the last few games---might be on the way out if the team ever gets off its arse and brings in another tackle. Just weird.

TE (3): King, Heap, Housler.

King and Heap look gimpy and Housler is hurt as well. Right now this unit isn't looking very good at all. Keeping a 4th TE with all the other roster issues would be a classic Whisenhunt move---so add another poor performer this pre-season in there like Dray.

WR (6): Fitzgerald, Roberts, Doucet, Floyd, Byrd, I. Williams.

The team has always like to keep 6 WRs---there was a classic Doucet chew and screw tonight---a great Barnum and Bailey (Wolfley) TD catch by a double teamed Floyd---but we saw a WR actually get behind a defense in Isaiah Williams, a true rarity amongst these birds---which actually may mean he will be cut tomorrow due to the assessment of his whole body of work and his arguing with Whisenhunt on the sidelines. Sampson will probably make the team because they drafted him and they think he's ok on STs when he really is no great shakes there. Drops and fumbles tonight exposed him as a below average NFL WR.

NT (2): Williams, Eason.

Williams and Eason have had good pre-seasons.

DE (4): Dockett, Campbell, Carter, Holliday.

Calling Carter (Wolfley again) the 4th starter and Holliday the old salty dog was amusing and befitting. Ronald Talley was not good the past few weeks.

ILB (4): Lenon, Washington, Bradley, Walker.

Four starting caliber LBers here---wonder if Bradley and/or Walker might get some looks on the outside---both have show good bursts rushing the passer---at least from the inside.

OLB (4): Schofield, Acho, Haggans, Groves.

Groves and Haggans had good games and were active in pursuit, albeit versus 2nd and 3rd stringers---being 13th in line on the waiver wires means that any decent pass rushers who are waived wont make it to the Cardinals. If the Cardinals want to bolster this position they will have to make a trade---which they wont. Brandon Williams showed real difficulty defending the run in this game---and he's not a consistent edge threat.

CB (6): Peterson, Gay, Fleming, Jefferson, Adams, Toler.

Adams has struggled all pre-season in coverage---BUT---the STs coverage teams this pre-season have been awful, as witnessed yet again in this game. Adams HAS to stick, but strictly on STs. Toler looks hampered still. But, with the mergence of Fleming there's time for him to get stronger.

S (5): Wilson, Rhodes, Sanders, Bethel, Johnson.

This kid Bethel is now one of the best tacklers on the team. He was around the ball and finishing plays all game. Sanders is solid---and Johnson needs to get back to full strength.

ST (3): Feely, Leach, Zastudil.

One could argue the pre-season MVPs are: RB William Powell (offense), LB Stewart Bradley (defense) and P Dave Zastudil & S Justin Bethel (special teams).

Wonder if Feely's two misses and shorter than desired kickoffs will have the coaches looking more closely at the waiver wire. Probably not, but it's possible---like last year when they cut Graham.

It's been a tough pre-season---with only 3 home games in the last 8---this team needs a fast start---but this team is letting off a dubious vibe---the buzz from last year's wins down the stretch seems like a distant memory---but it's only the pre-season, right? Many keep thinking the defense will carry the team early---but, when you look at them fundamentally right now (tackling, getting off blocks, covering, etc.), and how weak they have been on the edges, it would not be difficult to imagine a slow start like last year's. Not sure these guys will handle the pressure of having to carry the team this early in the season. Hopefully they can and will. The players are excited about bringing on the full package of blitzes and schemes---but the fundamentals have to be good, regardless of the schemes.

 

[desertdawg]

QB (3): Skelton, Kolb, Lindley.

The offense for the entire pre-season was and remains out of sorts. All three QBs struggled with the execution, the timing and the breakdowns in protection.

It makes absolutely no sense to bench the #2 QB in this game, whomever he is and as much as one can respect Rich Bartel, it makes no sense to give him snaps when he is just going to be released anyway...although ironically for a small stretch there Bartel was looking as good as any QB we've seen this summer. Hope he's ok. Classy guy and player.

Lindley came out with far more attempts and playing time in the pre-season, which also makes little sense, seeing how much the top two struggled and were never given a whole half to get things going.

Quite possibly the worst coached, worst handled QB unit in the NFL this pre-season.

RB (4): Wells, Williams, Stephens-Howling, Powell.

Wells ran well---although he was a little slow out of the gates. Powell has made quite a name for himself---and with as dinged up as Hyphen gets, Powell's KO return ability gives him the edge on Alfonso Smith (who will be waiting for a call if and when the Cardinals need him this year).

FB (1): Sherman.

One of the better players on the team even as a sophomore.

OL (8): Batiste, Colledge, Sendlein, Snyder, Massie, Kelemete, Ohrnsberger, Bridges.

Weird handing of Bridges who basically played with the 2nd and 3rd lines the last few games---might be on the way out if the team ever gets off its arse and brings in another tackle. Just weird.

TE (3): King, Heap, Housler.

King and Heap look gimpy and Housler is hurt as well. Right now this unit isn't looking very good at all. Keeping a 4th TE with all the other roster issues would be a classic Whisenhunt move---so add another poor performer this pre-season in there like Dray.

WR (6): Fitzgerald, Roberts, Doucet, Floyd, Byrd, I. Williams.

The team has always like to keep 6 WRs---there was a classic Doucet chew and screw tonight---a great Barnum and Bailey (Wolfley) TD catch by a double teamed Floyd---but we saw a WR actually get behind a defense in Isaiah Williams, a true rarity amongst these birds---which actually may mean he will be cut tomorrow due to the assessment of his whole body of work and his arguing with Whisenhunt on the sidelines. Sampson will probably make the team because they drafted him and they think he's ok on STs when he really is no great shakes there. Drops and fumbles tonight exposed him as a below average NFL WR.

NT (2): Williams, Eason.

Williams and Eason have had good pre-seasons.

DE (4): Dockett, Campbell, Carter, Holliday.

Calling Carter (Wolfley again) the 4th starter and Holliday the old salty dog was amusing and befitting. Ronald Talley was not good the past few weeks.

ILB (4): Lenon, Washington, Bradley, Walker.

Four starting caliber LBers here---wonder if Bradley and/or Walker might get some looks on the outside---both have show good bursts rushing the passer---at least from the inside.

OLB (4): Schofield, Acho, Haggans, Groves.

Groves and Haggans had good games and were active in pursuit, albeit versus 2nd and 3rd stringers---being 13th in line on the waiver wires means that any decent pass rushers who are waived wont make it to the Cardinals. If the Cardinals want to bolster this position they will have to make a trade---which they wont. Brandon Williams showed real difficulty defending the run in this game---and he's not a consistent edge threat.

CB (6): Peterson, Gay, Fleming, Jefferson, Adams, Toler.

Adams has struggled all pre-season in coverage---BUT---the STs coverage teams this pre-season have been awful, as witnessed yet again in this game. Adams HAS to stick, but strictly on STs. Toler looks hampered still. But, with the mergence of Fleming there's time for him to get stronger.

S (5): Wilson, Rhodes, Sanders, Bethel, Johnson.

This kid Bethel is now one of the best tacklers on the team. He was around the ball and finishing plays all game. Sanders is solid---and Johnson needs to get back to full strength.

ST (3): Feely, Leach, Zastudil.

One could argue the pre-season MVPs are: RB William Powell (offense), LB Stewart Bradley (defense) and P Dave Zastudil & S Justin Bethel (special teams).

Wonder if Feely's two misses and shorter than desired kickoffs will have the coaches looking more closely at the waiver wire. Probably not, but it's possible---like last year when they cut Graham.

It's been a tough pre-season---with only 3 home games in the last 8---this team needs a fast start---but this team is letting off a dubious vibe---the buzz from last year's wins down the stretch seems like a distant memory---but it's only the pre-season, right? Many keep thinking the defense will carry the team early---but, when you look at them fundamentally right now (tackling, getting off blocks, covering, etc.), and how weak they have been on the edges, it would not be difficult to imagine a slow start like last year's. Not sure these guys will handle the pressure of having to carry the team this early in the season. Hopefully they can and will. The players are excited about bringing on the full package of blitzes and schemes---but the fundamentals have to be good, regardless of the schemes.

I'd agree with most all of that homeskillet. Beanie had a stellar game for the amount of touches he had, he wanted to break one and probably would have.He got leg tackeled almost every time, not the stumblin powerful fall down music we usually see. His big ass thighs look a lot more awesome when he keeps his legs going for a couple few more yards.
I'm glad Whiz scrapped Skelton and Kolb for the game, no matter which we prefer, they are both still available.

Mad props on the rest kid.

 

[BillsCarnage]

Laron Byrd had some nice catches tonight. He's a big receiver to keep your eye on.
In fact I thought it was Fitz out there w/ the locks.

But, Lindley and Bartel are the ones I'll be curious to see what happens. Bartel's injury may have sealed his fate.

As for the season, If they start fast they can compete for the division, otherwise it might be a close mirror of last season, but hopefully i'm wrong. Third straight opener against a rookie QB.

 

[Osbern61]

Good analysis, Mitch, as always!

 

[gmabel830]

Great job as always Mitch...

The only one that jumps out at me is Isiah Williams. I just don't think showing up in the one preseason game that means the least is enough to get you a roster spot (it means the most if you are on the bubble, but I don't even think he should have been on the bubble). Maybe I'm wrong, but I just don't see it happening.

I think that spot goes to one of the following:

Sampson (I personally would just keep the other 5 you noted - don't feel a 6th WR earned a spot)

4th TE (probably Dray)

Brandon Williams or OLB waiver pickup (I don't rule out us keeping 5 OLBs)

Waiver O-line pickup

 

[az1965]

I agree it is really quite stupid to not make the QB decision by now and give both at least some reps today.

NFL.com making fun of Cards on this matter.

 

[az1965]

Laron Byrd had some nice catches tonight. He's a big receiver to keep your eye on.

Yes, however, that catch towards the end in the end zone should have been caught. It went thru his hands into the hands of the defender. Fortunately, the defender dropped it.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I think it makes a lot of sense not starting Skelton or Kolb when the competition was so close and there is not much of a difference to the coaching staff and both are deem valuable for what we have and they did not end up getting hurt like Bartel who did play. Playing against second string players out to make big hits to secure a spot on a team is not the situation you want a possible starter in (because no matter who is announced as the starter, the other guy is not far behind of claiming the same title). Any accomplishments would have been against a lower tier defense not playing actual schemes. Announcing the starter does not mean the real starter, because frankly I do not think the coaches really know yet and the reality is that this will have to play itself out in real season conditions, we need both guys healthy (especially ol' Kolb) to find that out.

 

[Catfish]

Mitch, after a long and frustrating pre-season, I feel exactly as you do about the way our coaching staff handled the QB situation AGAIN !!! I truly wished that Whiz had named Skelton the season starter after the third pre-season game, and given the starting reps to him from then on. That may have allowed the O-line and other players to come together sooner, (instead of being in the dark until the last few days of pre-season). I think that there was a tremendous waste of possible snaps and time played for the chosen starter for this team, but once again, Whiz doesn't seem to be able to choose a guy and stick with him. I don't know of a single team in the league that puts its QB's through the mill like he does in the off season.

Now, here is some food for thought. My son believes that this season will be nearly opposite the 2011 season, where we lost early under Kolb, then nearly won out under Skelton late. He believes that Whiz should start Skelton, because of several reasons. For one, Kolb has not shown the propensity to handle a pressure cooker situation at all, and this will certainly be one. Our O-line is not yet settled in, and Skelton would be the stronger, bigger, more athletic QB of the two, (more apt to be able to weather the storm as the line settles in). That makes sense to me, especially since the early part of the season is far more favorable to the Cards than the last half of the season. We will be on the road a lot the second half. If Skelton is successful early, but gets beat up badly, we could still start Kolb in the 2nd half of the season, where all the pressure would be off him. If he is successful, we have our starting and backup QB's settled for several years. If not, we lose a lot in the second half, BUT we know exactly what we need to do next off season.

I still think it is a shame that Whisenhunt has such a poor record of dealing with QB's. Still, a strong mediocre QB playing lots of home games early in the season, may just be successful. If Kolb is needed the second half, then at least it will be on the road most of that half, and he won't be under such pressure to produce for the hometown fans.

There is still time for Whiz to right this ship, and I believe the right call would be for him to name Skelton to start the season. I also believe we should become a run first team with the personnel we have. I have little, (or no), confidence that he will do so. I can't believe that we are five years into this mess, and Whiz's offense is still so disjointed and unprepared to begin a new season. I also can't believe that after causing a QB controversy when he platooned Leinart and Warner, then again with Leinart and D-Wrek, and now again with Skelton and Kolb, (part two), he would have learned how to do this. It's fine to hold a "Competition" for the position, but at some point you need to be able to say, "this is my QB" without wasting a whole pre-season, or two, or five, or an entire year, or two.

 

[moklerman]

Whiz's yearly handling of the QB situation is frustrating enough but why the hell did he go for the FG to tie a preseason game?

 

[Garthshort]

Mitch, I hope, and think, you're wrong about Adams. He can't play CB and I'm guessing that there will be a lot of guys (on the WW) who can play ST's as well if not better. Keep in mind Sampson also plays ST's and you have him cut, as do I. B/t/w, Somers, I believe, has Rashard Johnson in a battle for a roster fight with Blake Gideon, and I wouldn't mind seeing that happen.

Moklerman, you asked the question of the night. Was Whiz ticked off at John Fox, for not playing any starters?

 

[oaken1]

I think it makes a lot of sense not starting Skelton or Kolb when the competition was so close and there is not much of a difference to the coaching staff and both are deem valuable for what we have and they did not end up getting hurt like Bartel who did play. Playing against second string players out to make big hits to secure a spot on a team is not the situation you want a possible starter in (because no matter who is announced as the starter, the other guy is not far behind of claiming the same title). Any accomplishments would have been against a lower tier defense not playing actual schemes. Announcing the starter does not mean the real starter, because frankly I do not think the coaches really know yet and the reality is that this will have to play itself out in real season conditions, we need both guys healthy (especially ol' Kolb) to find that out.

and the PT helps Lindley get experience while the coaches get to see exactly what they have in him.... IMO Lindley is going to play significant time this season....the coaches know we blow at QB so they need a full assessment of exactly how bad it is in order to justify using that first round pick next april on a QB...because its gonna be a high first rounder.

 

[az jam]

Some good points, Mitch. You are more optimistic about the season than I am.
The offense is a disaster. We will be lucky to win 6 games.

 

[Duckjake]

Mitch, I hope, and think, you're wrong about Adams. He can't play CB and I'm guessing that there will be a lot of guys (on the WW) who can play ST's as well if not better. Keep in mind Sampson also plays ST's and you have him cut, as do I. B/t/w, Somers, I believe, has Rashard Johnson in a battle for a roster fight with Blake Gideon, and I wouldn't mind seeing that happen.

Moklerman, you asked the question of the night. Was Whiz ticked off at John Fox, for not playing any starters?

I watched Gideon play most of the night. I don't think he even got his uniform dirty. He's in contention to take the nickname "Stand Around" from Levi Brown. Just awful on the punt return team. Let his man run right by him every time.

Really puzzling that the coaches see something in Gideon when a better Safety from Texas, Christian Scott, gets released. Must be CKW's Max Hall syndrome. Has to have one guy on the team who is too small and slow for the NFL but is a good kid.

 

[Garthshort]

Very disappointed with Powell's lack of speed. While playing against third and fourth stringers it wasn't so apparent, but against guys, most of whom will probably make the team, he looked slooooow. Smith, who I figured had zero chance to make the team, looked like Usain (Sp?) Bolt by comparison. I now wouldn't be surprised if Smith beats out Powell, but I really enjoyed watching WP in the PS.

 

[MrYeahBut]

welcome back moklerman

 

[gmabel830]

Very disappointed with Powell's lack of speed. While playing against third and fourth stringers it wasn't so apparent, but against guys, most of whom will probably make the team, he looked slooooow. Smith, who I figured had zero chance to make the team, looked like Usain (Sp?) Bolt by comparison. I now wouldn't be surprised if Smith beats out Powell, but I really enjoyed watching WP in the PS.

I was disappointed with Powell's performance last night too. He got a chance to show it against a little bit better competition, and didn't really do anything to stand out to me from an RB perspective. It seemed like there was a lot of shake, but not enough bake (a lot of times where he ran a good 10-15 yards laterally, but only ended up with 2 going forward). I think it comes down to Powell's special teams ability vs. Smith's pass blocking ability more than anything.

 

[Duckjake]

I was disappointed with Powell's performance last night too. He got a chance to show it against a little bit better competition, and didn't really do anything to stand out to me from an RB perspective. It seemed like there was a lot of shake, but not enough bake (a lot of times where he ran a good 10-15 yards laterally, but only ended up with 2 going forward). I think it comes down to Powell's special teams ability vs. Smith's pass blocking ability more than anything.

Do you think that was Powell or Powell having to react to the fact that the offensive line wasn't blocking anyone? I remember Edge having to make 1-2 guys miss just to pick up 2-3 yards. Doesn't seem like much has changed.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I was disappointed with Powell's performance last night too. He got a chance to show it against a little bit better competition, and didn't really do anything to stand out to me from an RB perspective. It seemed like there was a lot of shake, but not enough bake (a lot of times where he ran a good 10-15 yards laterally, but only ended up with 2 going forward). I think it comes down to Powell's special teams ability vs. Smith's pass blocking ability more than anything.

Putting aside LSH: If their looking for a backup to Wells it's Smith, if for Williams it's Powell.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Mitch,

Can't see them carrying 11 DB's.

Bet they're trying to trade one and a RB as we speak.

 

[Russ Smith]

What was interesting is hearing Wolf talk about how the coaches were all saying at least one of our RB's that gets cut would be playing somewhere else. I was sort of thinking the 4th RB might come from somewhere else.

Powell is shifty but as others said, he's slow, Smith is ok nothing special. But I haven't watched many of the other games so maybe other teams won't be cutting players any better than that?

 

[Krangodnzr]

Fully disagree that Groves looked good. I keyed in on him and Williams, and neither played well against 2nd and 3rd stringers. Both failed consistently to seal the edge, were out of position and neither added much as a pass rush, other than on breakdowns largely caused by the line or Stewart Bradley.

Bradley had a very good game, as did Walker. Walker is looking quicker this preseason, he looks to have much improved conditioning and should be more of a factor this year in the base defense.

Worst coached QB talent? ********. Worst QB talent period. None of these jokers belong in the NFL. Lindley is a tease; he's enthusiastic, has a very good arm, and is accurate at time. But he forces plays badly at times when he gets frustrated, and throws poorly to covered receivers. An OK option as a bottom of the roster guy, but the two guys ahead of him are not (Kolb and Skelton).

It was good to see Floyd make some plays. Some of you saying he's looked bad in the preaseason aren't being objective, receivers have to get the ball to make plays. That TD was a Pro Bowl caliber play, and Floyd should develop over time. My brother pointed out something to me: the comparisons with Fitzgerald are BS; Floyd is more of a David Boston type.

Isiah Williams vs. Demarco Sampson? Bottom of the roster guys, and it will come down to special teams where Sampson has an edge. Williams did look very good; he has speed to get behind the defense and looks like he belongs. Sampson hasn't really stepped up since his preseason last year.

Beanie looked pretty good tonight, but it was vintage Beanie Wells last night. He had two or three runs that a MJD or Adrian Peterson may have taken to the house or at least gained another 20 yards. Beanie just gets tripped up way to easily for such a big, strong, fast guy. He still played well though. I'm not in love with Powell like the rest of you. Sure he moves through traffic with quick moves, but his running style isn't the type that generally works for backs in the NFL. He has won the job over Alfonso Smith, but watching Powell whiff blocking in the backfield scares the crap out of me if he ever gets any regular season playing time.

The offensive line played pretty well tonight, but obviously that was against Denver's second squad. Ohrnberger may steal Snyder's starting job. Though he's liimited athletically he's pretty sound fundamentally and he's tough as nails. I think he sticks. Massie continues to get better; he did whiff a few times, but he was generally controling his man and threw a couple of key blocks springing runs. Batiste looks to be an adequate replacement, but will likely have his struggles against top pass rushers.

The defensive line struggled as a whole against Denver's zone blocking scheme, falling into the traps that the scheme wants to force defenses into. But this has to be tempered with the knowledge that the Cardinals don't scheme/game plan for preseason opponents, so in a regular season game this shouldn' t be as apparent. Everrette Thompson was god awful, that guy was beat on nearly ever play run his direction, and Talley didn't have the best game ever. David Carter continues to impress and I believe he's the heir apparent to Darnell Dockett on the roster.

The linebackers were a mixed bag; Bradley, Walker, and to a lesser extent Sturdivant, played good football. All of the outside guys struggled. Brandon Williams and Groves were BAAAD. Awful. I don't see how either can make the roster and if I were in the front office I would be dialing 1800-OLB-HELP. Haggans had good moments and bad moments, but should still make the roster.

The CB group played well for the most part. Jefferson is a guy I've supported at times and he made a few plays, but the guy still fails to look back for the ball and is on the fringe of the roster. If the Cardinals are considering cutting Adams, I think they still need to keep him. His value on special teams and his heads up play on defense at times is valuable. Keeping guys like Adams sends a message to the rest of the roster that leadership and hardwork are rewarded, and Adams continues to display these traits. Toler has been robbed by injuries and I'm not confident he makes the roster this year. Crez Butler made a heads up play on his pick and the completion he gave up to seal Denver's victory was obvious pass interference by Denver receiver Orton.

Blake Giddeon has no business on an NFL roster; he's smallish, not very fast and I don't see him developing into an NFL player. On the other hand, Bethel has a shot to develop into a solid NFL safety and has the chance to be an elite special teamer in the interim.

Put me in the camp that believes Jay Feely is not the answer. He's just not a top tier kicker and I think we should look to move on. We seem to make rash moves at kicker to often over the years, replacing a superior kicker of an inferior one and the Rackers-Feely switch is an example of this.

 

[Mulli]

THanks KRang. So once again the team is weak at OT, OLB, and QB.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Worst coached QB talent? ********. Worst QB talent period. None of these jokers belong in the NFL. Lindley is a tease; he's enthusiastic, has a very good arm, and is accurate at time. But he forces plays badly at times when he gets frustrated, and throws poorly to covered receivers. An OK option as a bottom of the roster guy, but the two guys ahead of him are not (Kolb and Skelton).

A gander at the NY Jets QB play gives me some hope.

 

[Mitch]

Mitch,

Can't see them carrying 11 DB's.

Bet they're trying to trade one and a RB as we speak.

I agree Canuck---it's just that the one guy who could get value in a trade is Greg Toler and he's done nothing this pre-season to raise his stock---not yet anyway.

But---the way I see it is 10 DBs and 1 ST (Adams).

If they cut Adams with how bad the coverage teams have been they would be crazy. Although seeing that Adams was on the field with the 3rd stringers last night and even was put back to field a punt (what was that all about?) may have been a sign to him that he's on his way out.

I thought Jefferson has looked very very good the past two weeks---looks a lot stickier in coverage.

With Rashad Johnson being out with an abdomen injury and Bethel playing as well as he did last night---I think the coaches may decide to go with 4 safeties: Wilson, Rhodes, Sanders and Bethel...and use Gay and Jefferson as combo CB/Ss.

Blake Gideon is likely headed to the PS. Has done enough to warrant that, but not enough to warrant a roster spot.