What a Hard Draft to Evaluate

[Krangodnzr]

I give this draft a D. The only positive is we should have some really good picks next year. We needed a home run in the draft to have a successful off season and we got a single.

The Cardinals drafted a few foundation players.
If you think there was  any home runs in this draft, then you weren't paying attention. This draft was 10-15 first round players and a bunch of third round players.

I wanted two starters at a position of need and was hoping for three.

Again...thats very unlikely.

The loss of the third-round pick for tampering hurt us. We could have got a good IOL or defensive linemen with that pick.

There was literally no good DL in the third round.

I know Paris Johnson will most likely start at one of the guard positions, but I am not thrilled with taking a guard with the #6 pick. Was he the 6th best player of the draft?

He will play guard for now.

Selecting B.J. Ojulari in the second round was baffling.

How so? He's an edge rusher. The Cardinals really only had Cam Thomas, Sanders, and Gardeck. You were comfortable with that group?

How many LB do we need? We signed Kyzir White and Josh Woods in free agency. We have Myjai Sanders and Cameron Thomas who both produced in their limited opportunity, and we have Simmons and Collins.

Not all LB types are the same. The Cardinals have Thomas, Sanders, and Gardeck. Hardly a murderers row at a very important position.

I'd argue that Edge was the biggest need on the team and Ojulari fits that role.

Selecting a WR in the third round. Why? We have Hopkings, Brown, Moore, Dortch and we signed Pascal to a $4.5M contract.

WR is a huge need in the near term.

It seems like we are stocking up on LB and WR, when we desperately need IOL and DL help.

This was an epically weak DL class. You don't reach for low quality players.

I wish I could just walk away and come back after the 2024 draft. It is going to be very difficult to watch games this year.

It will be, but nothing that happened in the 2023 draft was going to change that.

 

[HairZach]

I give this draft a D. The only positive is we should have some really good picks next year. We needed a home run in the draft to have a successful off season and we got a single. I wanted two starters at a position of need and was hoping for three. The loss of the third-round pick for tampering hurt us. We could have got a good IOL or defensive linemen with that pick.

I know Paris Johnson will most likely start at one of the guard positions, but I am not thrilled with taking a guard with the #6 pick. Was he the 6th best player of the draft?

Selecting B.J. Ojulari in the second round was baffling. How many LB do we need? We signed Kyzir White and Josh Woods in free agency. We have Myjai Sanders and Cameron Thomas who both produced in their limited opportunity, and we have Simmons and Collins.

Selecting a WR in the third round. Why? We have Hopkings, Brown, Moore, Dortch and we signed Pascal to a $4.5M contract.

It seems like we are stocking up on LB and WR, when we desperately need IOL and DL help.

I wish I could just walk away and come back after the 2024 draft. It is going to be very difficult to watch games this year.

I was disappointed about not getting any DL or a center, but this was considered a very very bad DL class so I can get over waiting until next year. I don't want them to draft a DL just to find out he's worse than Fotu. I would have prefered a center to Ojulari, but with this being a good Edge class and a meh center class, Ojulari is probably the better value pick. We aren't going to be good in 2023, we just aren't. Pick good players, don't reach to try and fill the holes to pretend we can compete.

I do think the 3rd round picks were disappointing, but they both seem to have high potential.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Hard to evaluate at the onset or the reality? Sorry, but seldom have I ever seen people citing themselves as a genius knowing the draft three years after the fact

 

[kerouac9]

I think BJ might be a SLB in a 4-3

He was awful against Bama

Drafting an edge who only had 5.5 sacks his last year seems a little sus

 

[Krangodnzr]

I think BJ might be a SLB in a 4-3

He was awful against Bama

Drafting an edge who only had 5.5 sacks his last year seems a little sus

LOL you must not have watched Anderson against Tennessee. I watched through that clip you posted an saw some pressures and a TFL. Well Anderson didn't do anything.

My point is that even good players have down games against good players on good teams.

Ojulari is probably max an 8 sack per year guy, which is great for round 2.

 

[kerouac9]

LOL you must not have watched Anderson against Tennessee. I watched through that clip you posted an saw some pressures and a TFL. Well Anderson didn't do anything.

My point is that even good players have down games against good players on good teams.
We sWe is probably max an 8 sack per year guy, which is great for round 2.

So worse than Markus Golden is your standard for greatness in the top of the second round? Is this one of your foundation players from this draft?

 

[Jetstream Green]

So worse than Markus Golden is your standard for greatness in the top of the second round? Is this one of your foundation players from this draft?

Who is your best pick of the Cardinal draft and what do you think his NFL career will be like

 

[Stout]

I was disappointed about not getting any DL or a center, but this was considered a very very bad DL class so I can get over waiting until next year. I don't want them to draft a DL just to find out he's worse than Fotu. I would have prefered a center to Ojulari, but with this being a good Edge class and a meh center class, Ojulari is probably the better value pick. We aren't going to be good in 2023, we just aren't. Pick good players, don't reach to try and fill the holes to pretend we can compete.

I do think the 3rd round picks were disappointing, but they both seem to have high potential.

The only people saying this have been on this board, from what I've heard. Every time it came up with the talking heads n TV, the center class was spoke of glowingly. This is a false ASFN narrative.

 

[Stout]

LOL you must not have watched Anderson against Tennessee. I watched through that clip you posted an saw some pressures and a TFL. Well Anderson didn't do anything.

My point is that even good players have down games against good players on good teams.

Ojulari is probably max an 8 sack per year guy, which is great for round 2.

Hang on, we took an edge that can't rack up sacks with pick 33 over a center? You're so much happier with him than Anderson and he's that much worse? I am changing my vote from grudgingly fine to dissatisfied with the pick. Not like it makes a difference to the universe, but still.

 

[BritCard]

Selecting a WR in the third round. Why? We have Hopkings, Brown, Moore, Dortch and we signed Pascal to a $4.5M contract.

Because Dortch and Brown aren't great run blockers. I don't know about Rondale. But certainly not enough size there to effectively run a wide zone blocking scheme.

Also, Hopkins wants out, is likely to be out and we might be out on Brown depending how he plays this year. So without drafting a WR we could very easily go into next year with only Rondale and Pascal on the roster (Dortch is on a 1 year deal).

If you're drafting for the current year you're drafting wrong.

 

[BritCard]

Hang on, we took an edge that can't rack up sacks with pick 33 over a center? You're so much happier with him than Anderson and he's that much worse? I am changing my vote from grudgingly fine to dissatisfied with the pick. Not like it makes a difference to the universe, but still.

You don't believe Krang when he says anything good about a player but instantly change your opinion when he's not glowing about someone?

Ojulari is a good player. He has the most tools and 2nd most bend of anyone in this class. How many rushers are coming out of this class with 6 or 7 well honed moves in their tool kit? There was nothing for me between Ojulari and Will McDonald and McDonald went mid 1st round. Ojulari has 1st round grades from many people.

He can easily be a 10+ sack guy a year, maybe more. He has all the physical tools and nobody works harder. He just needs to add a little NFL weight and strength.

Also, he only just turned 21 a month ago. Will McDonald turns 24 in June. Tyree Wilson turns 23 in 2 weeks. He was the youngest Edge in this class and still has a tonne of physical growth in him.

 

[Stout]

You don't believe Krang when he says anything good about a player but instantly change your opinion when he's not glowing about someone?

Ojulari is a good player. He has the most tools and 2nd most bend of anyone in this class. How many rushers are coming out of this class with 6 or 7 well honed moves in their tool kit? There was nothing for me between Ojulari and Will McDonald and McDonald went mid 1st round. Ojulari has 1st round grades from many people.

He can easily be a 10+ sack guy a year, maybe more. He has all the physical tools and nobody works harder. He just needs to add a little NFL weight and strength.

Also, he only just turned 21 a month ago. Will McDonald turns 24 in June. Tyree Wilson turns 23 in 2 weeks. He was the youngest Edge in this class and still has a tonne of physical growth in him.

No, Krang actually thinks that's a good thing, that we took a guy he thinks has an 8 sack per season ceiling. I didn't do my homework on Ojulari, just kind of taking posters' word for it that he'll be a good edge. Now I'm reading some of those same posters drastically limiting expectations.

 

[Goodyear Card]

Because Dortch and Brown aren't great run blockers. I don't know about Rondale. But certainly not enough size there to effectively run a wide zone blocking scheme.

Also, Hopkins wants out, is likely to be out and we might be out on Brown depending how he plays this year. So without drafting a WR we could very easily go into next year with only Rondale and Pascal on the roster (Dortch is on a 1 year deal).

If you're drafting for the current year you're drafting wrong.

Hopkins is not going anywhere. He may have wanted out, but he saw that no one is willing to pay him what the Cardinals are paying him. Is being a good run blocker how you evaluate WR? Did JG tell you we are running a wide zone blocking scheme? I have not read that anywhere but in your posts. Does a wide zone blocking scheme require an OL? Last time I checked we have no starting OC or LG and our RG and RT our average.

 

[BritCard]

Hopkins is not going anywhere. He may have wanted out, but he saw that no one is willing to pay him what the Cardinals are paying him. Is being a good run blocker how you evaluate WR? Did JG tell you we are running a wide zone blocking scheme? I have not read that anywhere but in your posts. Does a wide zone blocking scheme require an OL? Last time I checked we have no starting OC or LG and our RG and RT our average.

JG did tell me he's running a wide zone scheme by hiring an OC that's always played in a wide zone scheme and drafting players that fit a wide zone scheme.

What G or C were there at pick 94 that would the issue? No 3rd round C is starting right away, or do you want the Mason Cole experience again?

Even if Hopkins stays (which I doubt) and certainly doubt beyond 2023 you want to go into 2024 with at best Brown, Rondale and Pascal?

The draft isn't about filling holes. It's about drafting the best players available when you pick that fit a current or future need for your team.

WR is one of them and obviously Wilson was the highest player on their board at the time.

 

[kerouac9]

Who is your best pick of the Cardinal draft and what do you think his NFL career will be like

Johnson. I think he’ll be a good but not exceptional guard, and we won’t sign him to a second contract because his fifth-year option will exceed his value.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Hang on, we took an edge that can't rack up sacks with pick 33 over a center? You're so much happier with him than Anderson and he's that much worse? I am changing my vote from grudgingly fine to dissatisfied with the pick. Not like it makes a difference to the universe, but still.

Are you ok? That is clearly not what I said.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Hang on, we took an edge that can't rack up sacks with pick 33 over a center?

8 sacks per year is a very good career. Getting that at pick 41 is a steal.

You're so much happier with him than Anderson and he's that much worse?

This isn't binary. The Cardinals got Paris Johnson who has a similar ceiling at LT and a pick in a draft where Marvin Harrison Jr and other truly elite prospects are.

I am changing my vote from grudgingly fine to dissatisfied with the pick. Not like it makes a difference to the universe, but still.

ok.

 

[Krangodnzr]

No, Krang actually thinks that's a good thing, that we took a guy he thinks has an 8 sack per season ceiling. I didn't do my homework on Ojulari, just kind of taking posters' word for it that he'll be a good edge. Now I'm reading some of those same posters drastically limiting expectations.

You must not pay attention to the NFL outside of the Cardinals much if you don't think providing 8 sacks per is a very good thing.

Like @BritCard said, Ojulari is the most advanced pass rusher by a country mile. Watch Anderson and then watch Ojulari and just pay attention to their pass rush repertoire. Ojulari uses a lot more moves. He's also younger which means you can expect more physical growth.

Not many 2nd round pass rushers will ever average 8 sacks per year over their career. That's a high number, and it's also not bad for a 1st rounder either. Few pass rushers during any given era average 10 sacks a year either.

 

[Harry]

He can rush, but can he defend the edge?

 

[Krangodnzr]

He can rush, but can he defend the edge?

Yes because he did it at LSU.

 

[Chopper0080]

I will just put this into the universe. In terms of position shifts, when looking at the roster and listening to our coaches, Rondale Moore might be a RB by week 1.

Every WR brought in has been over 6'2 and I know Rondale is not better than Brown or Dortch. If our coaches want to run more 12 personnel and are prioritizing size, Moore looks like a last option at WR. Far more likely to get snaps as a 3rd down back ala Kenneth Gainwell.

 

[Stout]

You must not pay attention to the NFL outside of the Cardinals much if you don't think providing 8 sacks per is a very good thing.

Like @BritCard said, Ojulari is the most advanced pass rusher by a country mile. Watch Anderson and then watch Ojulari and just pay attention to their pass rush repertoire. Ojulari uses a lot more moves. He's also younger which means you can expect more physical growth.

Not many 2nd round pass rushers will ever average 8 sacks per year over their career. That's a high number, and it's also not bad for a 1st rounder either. Few pass rushers during any given era average 10 sacks a year either.

Oh, I'm not going to scoff at 8 sacks--that's good production. But, if we're using subjective projections, then with this team and the draft as we saw it unfold, I'd much rather have the center who will start the next 5-10 years for us.

Also, you are just not going to convince me Ojulari is better than Anderson.

 

[BritCard]

He can rush, but can he defend the edge?

Yes, it's all over his tape.

 

[BritCard]

Also, you are just not going to convince me Ojulari is better than Anderson.

You know I like Anderson, and you're right he's not better right now. I think there is less between them than 38 picks justifies though.

But I can see why Ojulari might be in the future. He has some things I just don't think Anderson can learn, especially bend. I don't think Anderson has anything Ojulari can't add.

But we shall see. The Center you wanted might be the next Billy Price. Ojulari might be the next Von Miller. Or they might be the opposite and Ojulari might be the next Chaison. Who knows

 

[Krangodnzr]

Oh, I'm not going to scoff at 8 sacks--that's good production. But, if we're using subjective projections, then with this team and the draft as we saw it unfold, I'd much rather have the center who will start the next 5-10 years for us.

Those guys (the centers) are a lower bet than Ojulari.

Also, you are just not going to convince me Ojulari is better than Anderson.

My god you are looking at this so binary. Anderson is better than Ojulari right now.