Suns 2024-2025 Season Discussions

[BirdGangThing]

Durant had 5 turnovers against just 2 assists, that's a huge problem. Booker had 3 turnovers against 11 assists, that's a good ratio. And I'm not arguing against the idea of benching him, just your"evidence".

But bench him or not, someone needs to figure out where the real Devin is hiding so we can get rid of his subpar clone and begin to rehab the original's value. Our current version is worth about half what we're paying him, no one's going to sell the farm to acquire him. And we need superstar value when we do move Booker.

i don't know who book is anymore - hard to tell

 

[AzStevenCal]

i don't know who book is anymore - hard to tell

I don't either. We occasionally get glimpses of the real thing but sometimes it seems like he's never practiced a shot in his life.

 

[Covert Rain]

I don't either. We occasionally get glimpses of the real thing but sometimes it seems like he's never practiced a shot in his life.

The issue for Book most of this season has been the timing of his scoring. Those glimpses come when the game is out of hand or early. When it comes down to critical times at the end of quarters or halfs? I see lot's of bad decisions. We have seen this Book before. Early in his career he was an empty stat guy. When he is point Book he tries to do too much. As much as people complain here about KD having great stats but no results? Book is just as guilty.

 

[Hoop Head]

Durant had 5 turnovers against just 2 assists, that's a huge problem. Booker had 3 turnovers against 11 assists, that's a good ratio. And I'm not arguing against the idea of benching him, just your"evidence".

But bench him or not, someone needs to figure out where the real Devin is hiding so we can get rid of his subpar clone and begin to rehab the original's value. Our current version is worth about half what we're paying him, no one's going to sell the farm to acquire him. And we need superstar value when we do move Booker.

Part of the issue with Booker is they've made him the PG again. Beal may be the one to bring the ball up, when he's healthy, but Book is the one initiating the offense for the majority of the Suns possessions. It's to the detriment of the team as a whole to continually push him to PG. He's a decent playmaker but his ball handling is what keeps him from being a true combo guard like a SGA or Cade.

 

[BirdGangThing]

I don't either. We occasionally get glimpses of the real thing but sometimes it seems like he's never practiced a shot in his life.

i think it's mental af - for really tho - 4 or 5 years ago book was an assassin - he's lost his confidence now - he accepts defeat

whatever people have that's in them - when ish gets tough and getting tough is the only way to fight thru it - that's what the greats do from jordan to kobe from luka to ant - they don't give up they get mad and play even harder - one thing they don't do is get picked on

im just tired of it man - i haven't seen book in years - not sure we'll see him again - he cowers and acts oblivious to the disrespect put on him instead of letting it anger/motivate him into finding that next level - im not sure it's ever going to happen - he might have a better chance at growing boobs - devin booker doesn't have a war face

 

[95pro]

KD has too much influence on Book, mostly negative.

 

[Cheesebeef]

KD has too much influence on Book, mostly negative.

That’s on Book, not KD. If someone can be that easily swayed, they are beyond mentally weak to begin with.

Curry never let KD influence him, neither did Klay or Dray. Bottom line is Booker is mentally weak and that’s one of the main reasons almost every superstar he goes head to head with is his Daddy.

 

[Covert Rain]

That’s on Book, not KD. If someone can be that easily swayed, they are beyond mentally weak to begin with.

Curry never let KD influence him, neither did Klay or Dray. Bottom line is Booker is mentally weak and that’s one of the main reasons almost every superstar he goes head to head with is his Daddy.

100% this. That is more of an indictment on Book and just more proof he is a follower and not a leader.

 

[Hoop Head]

That’s on Book, not KD. If someone can be that easily swayed, they are beyond mentally weak to begin with.

Curry never let KD influence him, neither did Klay or Dray. Bottom line is Booker is mentally weak and that’s one of the main reasons almost every superstar he goes head to head with is his Daddy.

Curry had support of his team, Dray, Klay, Kerr, and the front office as well as being a media darling. This front office traded Booker's best friends for KD and then moved his mentor for a player with a duplicate skill set. They also fired the coach who got Booker to become a winner. What exactly was Booker supposed to do after seeing that play out over 5-6 months? Hope for the best and give it a shot or walk back all he said about wanting to finish his career here and start a power play with KD? There weren't a plethora of options available to him. He did get along with KD during the Olympics before so it makes sense why he'd believe it could work. It didn't, obviously, but his options were limited.

 

[BirdGangThing]

That’s on Book, not KD. If someone can be that easily swayed, they are beyond mentally weak to begin with.

Curry never let KD influence him, neither did Klay or Dray. Bottom line is Booker is mentally weak and that’s one of the main reasons almost every superstar he goes head to head with is his Daddy.

exactly - grown ass men don't need other grown ass men to be grown ass men

 

[Covert Rain]

Book and KD both account for just under 40% of the teams turnovers. As is stands Booker leads the team in turnovers:

Which Suns Player Has The Most Turnovers This Season | StatMuse

Devin Booker has the most turnovers for the Suns this season with 175 turnovers.

www.statmuse.com

However, you can't look at turnovers in vacuum. For example Anthony Edwards is #1 in turnovers but his plus minus is still +225 when he is on the court. Book on the other hand is #3 in turnovers and his plus minus while on the court is -104.

Which Shooting Guard Has The Most Turnovers This Season | StatMuse

Anthony Edwards has the most turnovers by a shooting guard this season with 217 turnovers.

www.statmuse.com

Similar story with Durant. Tatum is #1 at his position with the most turnovers but his plus minus is +443 when on the court (by the way that is downright sick and shows how much impact he has on his team). Durant is #3 like Book but his plus minus is -8 when on the court.

Which Power Forward Has The Most Turnovers This Season | StatMuse

Jayson Tatum has committed the most turnovers by a power forward this season with 186 turnovers.

www.statmuse.com

This seems to say that Book is hurting us on the floor much more than Durant. The fact that they are both top 5 in total turnovers and their plus/minus is both negative would seem to be a double whammy. However, it appears Booker's turnovers have been more costly to the team. His plus/minus is much worse than Durants.

 

[Phrazbit]

Book and KD both account for just under 40% of the teams turnovers. As is stands Booker leads the team in turnovers:

Which Suns Player Has The Most Turnovers This Season | StatMuse

Devin Booker has the most turnovers for the Suns this season with 175 turnovers.

www.statmuse.com

However, you can't look at turnovers in vacuum. For example Anthony Edwards is #1 in turnovers but his plus minus is still +225 when he is on the court. Book on the other hand is #3 in turnovers and his plus minus while on the court is -104.

Which Shooting Guard Has The Most Turnovers This Season | StatMuse

Anthony Edwards has the most turnovers by a shooting guard this season with 217 turnovers.

www.statmuse.com

Similar story with Durant. Tatum is #1 at his position with the most turnovers but his plus minus is +443 when on the court (by the way that is downright sick and shows how much impact he has on his team). Durant is #3 like Book but his plus minus is -8 when on the court.

Which Power Forward Has The Most Turnovers This Season | StatMuse

Jayson Tatum has committed the most turnovers by a power forward this season with 186 turnovers.

www.statmuse.com

This seems to say that Book is hurting us on the floor much more than Durant. The fact that they are both top 5 in total turnovers and their plus/minus is both negative would seem to be a double whammy. However, it appears Booker's turnovers have been more costly to the team. His plus/minus is much worse than Durants.

That is some really fuzzy math...

Per game Durant turns the ball over more often, he also has far less assists.

As detailed in another thread; Booker's assist and turnover numbers are some of the best in the league, 2nd best in all of basketball among non-point guards. Durant meanwhile has the worst assist to turnover ratio of ANY high usage player in the entire league.

 

[elindholm]

No wonder they are having problems...Too many ejaculations.

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No wonder they keep making the timeouts longer.

 

[Covert Rain]

That is some really fuzzy math...

Per game Durant turns the ball over more often, he also has far less assists.

As detailed in another thread; Booker's assist and turnover numbers are some of the best in the league, 2nd best in all of basketball among non-point guards. Durant meanwhile has the worst assist to turnover ratio of ANY high usage player in the entire league.

That's why I said you can't look at turnovers in a vacuum. That's why I pointed out the others that lead those categories being extremely effective. It's not fuzzy math unless you look at it in a vacuum. Looking at their impact on the court is important which is why for example Tatum is still so effective. You can't just look at assist to turnover ratio either. That doesn't take into effect when those turnovers take place or how many points off of turnovers or simply take into account how many times those turnovers killed runs for example.

It's still a concern two guys make up 40% and have a negative plus/minus to boot. Nobody is saying that paints the entire picture. Also, we know from the eye test what turnovers do. This is a completely different team when our turnovers are not an issue during a game. So that tells me the onus is on the two guys that lead the team in that category to do what they can to cut down on those.

 

[Ronin]

Sam Cooper

@scooperhoops
·
30s


Suns' DRTG is now 8.4 points per 100 possessions better with Oso Ighodaro on the floor. 96th percentile per Cleaning the Glass.

 

[BirdGangThing]

screw the big 3 - bud needs to play the humble 3 the rest of the way - aka the hustle 3 - aka energy³

kd sat out and we had one of our best performances in over a decade - that's gotta hit home with him especially with him and bud set tripping

book looked like book - oneale looked like oneale - team played defense as a whole but dunn and oso stole the show - just like we've been saying all along

 

[Proximo]

screw the big 3 - bud needs to play the humble 3 the rest of the way - aka the hustle 3 - aka energy³

kd sat out and we had one of our best performances in over a decade - that's gotta hit home with him especially with him and bud set tripping

book looked like book - oneale looked like oneale - team played defense as a whole but dunn and oso stole the show - just like we've been saying all along

Yes, this is what I have been saying all season, KD hurts us more than helps us.

I used to think it was just bad coaching and not utilizing him correctly, I now think he will not allow coaching that utilizes him differently then he wants to be used.

 

[Ronin]

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[95pro]

screw the big 3 - bud needs to play the humble 3 the rest of the way - aka the hustle 3 - aka energy³

kd sat out and we had one of our best performances in over a decade - that's gotta hit home with him especially with him and bud set tripping

book looked like book - oneale looked like oneale - team played defense as a whole but dunn and oso stole the show - just like we've been saying all along

I've noticed and commented a few times on this subject. KD is just so overrated, can't get him off the team fast enough.

 

[Phrazbit]

That's why I said you can't look at turnovers in a vacuum. That's why I pointed out the others that lead those categories being extremely effective. It's not fuzzy math unless you look at it in a vacuum. Looking at their impact on the court is important which is why for example Tatum is still so effective. You can't just look at assist to turnover ratio either. That doesn't take into effect when those turnovers take place or how many points off of turnovers or simply take into account how many times those turnovers killed runs for example.

It's still a concern two guys make up 40% and have a negative plus/minus to boot. Nobody is saying that paints the entire picture. Also, we know from the eye test what turnovers do. This is a completely different team when our turnovers are not an issue during a game. So that tells me the onus is on the two guys that lead the team in that category to do what they can to cut down on those.

If you can find a stat that specifically shows points off of turnovers, I would bet the Durant leads the entire league in that by a wide margin. He has more live ball passes straight to the wrong team than any player I have ever seen.

 

[Covert Rain]

If you can find a stat that specifically shows points off of turnovers, I would bet the Durant leads the entire league in that by a wide margin. He has more live ball passes straight to the wrong team than any player I have ever seen.

Seems like a pretty outrageous comment that isn't supported by Plus/minus. Book's is much worse than Durant's this season per the above. Not that plus/minus is a be all end all either. If you find something let me know but I think you are to focused on making it a Durant verses Book thing. I think it's a both of them thing and the point a couple other posters have pointed out as well.

The overall point is the onus should be on both of them to shore up one of the worst aspects of this team. Especially, when they lead that category which was the original point that the original poster was making. I was just providing supporting evidence since he said he hadn't had a chance to look it up.

 

[Ronin]

Gerald Bourguet

@GeraldBourguet
·
1h


Small sample size alert, but a fun fact from today's article:Since Ryan Dunn and Oso Ighodaro returned to the rotation 4 games ago, the Suns are 9th in defensive rating over that stretch. They're 26th in D-rating on the season.

 

[BirdGangThing]

Gerald Bourguet
@GeraldBourguet
·
1h


Small sample size alert, but a fun fact from today's article:Since Ryan Dunn and Oso Ighodaro returned to the rotation 4 games ago, the Suns are 9th in defensive rating over that stretch. They're 26th in D-rating on the season.

bud sucks

 

[Phrazbit]

Seems like a pretty outrageous comment that isn't supported by Plus/minus. Book's is much worse than Durant's this season per the above. Not that plus/minus is a be all end all either. If you find something let me know but I think you are to focused on making it a Durant verses Book thing. I think it's a both of them thing and the point a couple other posters have pointed out as well.

The overall point is the onus should be on both of them to shore up one of the worst aspects of this team. Especially, when they lead that category which was the original point that the original poster was making. I was just providing supporting evidence since he said he hadn't had a chance to look it up.

We have quality guard depth, our forward and front court depth is absolutely awful. That is why Durant has a better plus minus, when he sits down, he is typically replaced by someone who barely has a spot in the league.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I've noticed and commented a few times on this subject. KD is just so overrated, can't get him off the team fast enough.

Did you guys forget that we looked like the worst team in the NBA in the 10 games KD missed when Booker and co led us to a sterling 1-9 record?

The mix of players obviously doesn’t work and KD is a major reason why, but this team is an absolute, all-time league bad team without him.