Week 3 Snap Counts and maybe some thoughts

[Chopper0080]

That is a narrative award, though.

Detroit was 23rd in defense last year. Right now (still early!), they're 9th. Terrion Arnold is playing +90% of snaps for the Lions. He's +3000 RN. The Lions have SIX primetime/national games the rest of the year. He's gonna get a lot of attention if he makes a few plays in those and the Lions win 11 games or more.

True. I would argue that pass rushers get more of the narrative than DBs. Like I said, long odds for a reason, but getting a decent price.

 

[DVontel]

I specifically did not comment on quality of play.

Soooooo, what exactly are you trying to say?

 

[Chopper0080]

Soooooo, what exactly are you trying to say?

I am trying not to say a lot. lol

I feel like there are enough player critical threads on this board, and what I am hoping to do is make this one more about who is getting snaps and why/why not. Focus on opportunities earned/lost, the depth chart as the season progresses, and look at personnel usage depending on matchups and game scripts.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

Yep. Monti took a problem position into the offseason and still has a problem position even though he threw resources at it. Not good. Maybe Darius will come in and improve the issues. Unless he improves them incredibly, though, it will still be unresolved. Time will tell.

I agree. The DL is our weakest position talent wise. I wanted better talent there & felt like Monti only signed backup talent. Robinson is said to be able to play inside also, I hope he makes a difference.

 

[BritCard]

Kinda weird how they abandoned their multiple TE packages so quickly. It's like they wanted the Lions in nickel but then struggled to exploit it once they got it.

Especially weird as the Lions have been getting gashed in the passing game when in base defense and Anzalone was out too so Campbell played more, and Campbell is bad in coverage.

The best way to play the Lions is lots of 12/13.

 

[kerouac9]

Before we start patting ourselves on the back for our defensive back room, it's critical to remember that we're 30th in Adjusted Yards per Attempt right now (despite being in the middle of the pack in passing yardage allowed).

That's not a pressure problem, probably. We're middle of the pack in pressure percentage. It's a coverage problem. We're dead last in the NFL in completion percentage allowed. We've faced the second-fewest passing attempts in the NFL (bizarrely).

Eventually teams are going to catch on.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I agree. The DL is our weakest position talent wise. I wanted better talent there & felt like Monti only signed backup talent. Robinson is said to be able to play inside also, I hope he makes a difference.

Probably the plan is to build a great DL through the draft.

This, vs. trying to build a great DL through FA (and overpaying for star FAs which so often seems to not work)

Or building a mid DL with mid FA acquisitions.

I would bet a million dollars our 1st round pick next year is either a IDL or an EDGE player and that we spend a bunch of draft capital on those two groups.

 

[oaken1]

Probably the plan is to build a great DL through the draft.

This, vs. trying to build a great DL through FA (and overpaying for star FAs which so often seems to not work)

Or building a mid DL with mid FA acquisitions.

I would bet a million dollars our 1st round pick next year is either a IDL or an EDGE player and that we spend a bunch of draft capital on those two groups.

LOL... dude.... That aint news. Nobody is taking that bet.
2025 draft is heavy in defensive front. the talent value will be in defensive front.

of course we are drafting defensive front...every early mock produced so far has us doing so.

The question IMO is round 2... CB?,....EDGE/IDL?...OT? ...IOL?
MLB?

 

[Crimson Warrior]

LOL... dude.... That aint news. Nobody is taking that bet.
2025 draft is heavy in defensive front. the talent value will be in defensive front.

of course we are drafting defensive front...every early mock produced so far has us doing so.

The question IMO is round 2... CB?,....EDGE/IDL?...OT? ...IOL?
MLB?

So I'm Captain Obvious now? Is that what you're saying? lol.. you got it my friend.

I could see us riding with this group of CBs next year, plus maybe one mid FA acquisition so that Sterling Thomas becomes the dime back, and then going EDGE/IDL in round one and two. 100%. I would love that in fact!

 

[oaken1]

So I'm Captain Obvious now? Is that what you're saying? lol.. you got it my friend.

I could see us riding with this group of CBs next year, plus maybe one mid FA acquisition so that Sterling Thomas becomes the dime back, and then going EDGE/IDL in round one and two. 100%. I would love that in fact!

with the apparent depth in the next draft I would like to see an OLB Edge in round one followed by a NT in round 2...assuming there is a NT worthy of the spot of course...if not, DT/DE will do
as much as redbirds fans are gun shy...a solid ILB might be good in round 2

 

[Carolinacacti]

Damn game of inches. I have hope for the first time in years

 

[football karma]

That's not a pressure problem, probably. We're middle of the pack in pressure percentage. It's a coverage problem. We're dead last in the NFL in completion percentage allowed. We've faced the second-fewest passing attempts in the NFL (bizarrely).

it is kinda disheartening to see just how alone WRs are when they catch stuff against the Cards vs when Cardinal receivers catch passes


and in the FWIW file: I think it was Aaron Schwartz at FO that said that coverage is more important the pressure. Forcing a QB to go to option 2 or 3 leads to more sacks than the prototypical quick win by a pass rusher.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

There are two ways to look at this IMO. You can say it is great we found a UDFA CB who beat out a 3rd round pick, 5th round pick, 2nd round pick and another 3rd round pick for our #2 CB spot OR you can say it is disappointing that all of that draft investment can't beat out a guy who has 1 PD in three games, and is giving up a 128.9 QB rating.

I also disagree that this is impressive. Our roster was gutted and still lacks talent. Despite this, we are getting role player production from top 100 drafted players. Yes, historic draft rates are what they are. Btu those rates are for all 32 teams not the ones at the bottom who lack talent and should provide the easiest path to contributing.

I think it’s pretty good. The top 4 picks last, if BJ wasn’t hurt, would all be main contributors.
This year, once Robinson gets healthy, will have the top 4 playing also. Benson is behind a work horse but at least he’s getting some action.
That’s pretty good.
Getting reps from Treion, Stills and other late round guys is just bonus.
The Cards had 8 rookies play over 200 snaps last year and Higgins is right there at 191.
I think that’s very good. Now, whether they played well, is another question. But they did contribute.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

Probably the plan is to build a great DL through the draft.

This, vs. trying to build a great DL through FA (and overpaying for star FAs which so often seems to not work)

Or building a mid DL with mid FA acquisitions.

I would bet a million dollars our 1st round pick next year is either a IDL or an EDGE player and that we spend a bunch of draft capital on those two groups.

I would take a pocket busting DT first if available, edge rushers are more plentiful in each draft.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I would take a pocket busting DT first if available, edge rushers are more plentiful in each draft.

Agree! We desperately need our Aaron Donald!

We are far far away from having a presence like him on our D-line!

 

[oaken1]

Agree! We desperately need our Aaron Donald!

We are far far away from having a presence like him on our D-line!

Don't think we are as far away as all that.
Darius is pretty disruptive.

We'll find out soon.

 

[Stout]

Don't think we are as far away as all that.
Darius is pretty disruptive.

We'll find out soon.

We hope he is, but have no basis for saying he is pretty disruptive in the NFL yet. But, please, God, if you can just take pity on our Cards once, make him a Donald clone.

 

[Dayman]

I think it's fair to question why Melton can't get on the field over Thomas when the two CBs drafted right before him are starting on better defenses. It's not unusual to expect fast production from top 50 picks.

I also made a post questioning Monti's draft picks in another thread. There is obviously still plenty of time for things to change, but outside of the 2 first rounders, I just don't see a whole lot there. Especially this year's class.

Monti didn't just go all in on the draft in general. He kind of went all in on the 2024 draft with more picks in the first 100 picks than any team since Dallas after the Herschel trade. I just expected him to trade at least one of those for a future pick, but he really committed to this class. Robinson will obviously help the outlook a lot, but I did expect more immediate returns from this class considering the quantity of picks and the average age of the players.

 

[HairZach]

I think it's fair to question why Melton can't get on the field over Thomas when the two CBs drafted right before him are starting on better defenses. It's not unusual to expect fast production from top 50 picks.

TBF, Kool-Aid and Cooper Dejean are not actually starting yet, neither recorded a single snap in week 3. Only Lassiter is starting.

Max is considered a project more so than the 3 that went ahead of him. I don't think we traded back because we thought Max was better than those guys, we did so because the Falcons massively overpaid. It was an offer we couldn't refuse.

 

[Dayman]

TBF, Kool-Aid and Cooper Dejean are not actually starting yet, neither recorded a single snap in week 3. Only Lassiter is starting.

Max is considered a project more so than the 3 that went ahead of him. I don't think we traded back because we thought Max was better than those guys, but we did so because the Falcons massively overpaid. It was an offer we couldn't refuse.

Kool Aid started against Dallas, but I guess I shouldn't call him a starter. He played well, too. Not sure why he didn't play on Sunday.

 

[HairZach]

Kool Aid started against Dallas, but I guess I shouldn't call him a starter. He played well, too. Not sure why he didn't play on Sunday.

I think he was only playing while Lattimore was hurt.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I think it's fair to question why Melton can't get on the field over Thomas when the two CBs drafted right before him are starting on better defenses. It's not unusual to expect fast production from top 50 picks.

There's actually no factual basis to that statement at all. I posted awhile back, that outside the young QB's drafted last year and thrown into the fire, a very low % of rookies played over 20% of snaps last year. And Paris was one of them.

I also made a post questioning Monti's draft picks in another thread. There is obviously still plenty of time for things to change, but outside of the 2 first rounders, I just don't see a whole lot there. Especially this year's class.

After 3 games????? The Cards are getting play from Marvin, will from Robinson, Melton, Benson and the TE. That may say something about the Cards talent level but it's also pretty good. If a team can get 4-5 contributors from every draft class, they're going to be good.

These are 20-22 year old kids coming against adults with years of NFL strength training, playing experience, film study, etc. It's going to take a while for them to adjust and be NFL players. Sure, the new guys might have more natural talent, but it takes time and there are the exceptions but, for the most part, rookies are going to struggle.

People are on Benson but there is only 1 rookie RB, the kid from TB, that has done anything at all. Look at last year's rookie RBs. Bijan struggled and Gibbs was not much until the 2nd half of the season. And they were top 10 picks.

There are 3 former NFL players at my golf club(one played for the Cards) and I talk to them all the time. It's hard for rookies. They're in a new city, outside of the regimented control of college programs, learning a new system, some awash in money, trying to meet new people and have a social life, and so on. Throw in the fact that you're competing with older men trying to keep their jobs and support a family in a highly competitive industry, It's just tough.

 

[CardNots]

it is kinda disheartening to see just how alone WRs are when they catch stuff against the Cards vs when Cardinal receivers catch passes


and in the FWIW file: I think it was Aaron Schwartz at FO that said that coverage is more important the pressure. Forcing a QB to go to option 2 or 3 leads to more sacks than the prototypical quick win by a pass rusher.

I’m beginning to wonder about our defensive scheme as related to the DBs and linebacker coverage. Seems like a lot of wide open pass catchers.

Do we have mental deficiencies or does the scheme leads to breakdowns?

 

[GoldGloveschmidt]

It's hard to evaluate our corners when we've never seen them play tight bump and run coverage. The way Rallis has these guys playing gives flashbacks to Vance Joseph. Their job has been to stay 10 yards off receiver, give up easy receptions and make the tackle. This, along with not being able to stop the run, is resulting in long, painful, clock killing drives by the opponent. I would rather play tight man coverage and risk getting burned deep. At least our offense would get the ball back quicker.

 

[Chopper0080]

There's actually no factual basis to that statement at all. I posted awhile back, that outside the young QB's drafted last year and thrown into the fire, a very low % of rookies played over 20% of snaps last year. And Paris was one of them.

After 3 games????? The Cards are getting play from Marvin, will from Robinson, Melton, Benson and the TE. That may say something about the Cards talent level but it's also pretty good. If a team can get 4-5 contributors from every draft class, they're going to be good.

These are 20-22 year old kids coming against adults with years of NFL strength training, playing experience, film study, etc. It's going to take a while for them to adjust and be NFL players. Sure, the new guys might have more natural talent, but it takes time and there are the exceptions but, for the most part, rookies are going to struggle.

People are on Benson but there is only 1 rookie RB, the kid from TB, that has done anything at all. Look at last year's rookie RBs. Bijan struggled and Gibbs was not much until the 2nd half of the season. And they were top 10 picks.

There are 3 former NFL players at my golf club(one played for the Cards) and I talk to them all the time. It's hard for rookies. They're in a new city, outside of the regimented control of college programs, learning a new system, some awash in money, trying to meet new people and have a social life, and so on. Throw in the fact that you're competing with older men trying to keep their jobs and support a family in a highly competitive industry, It's just tough.

A couple thoughts on this.

1 - re: Melton. The issue imo is that he is struggling to get on the field over an UDFA who was drafted last year. STV is not an established vet, and it isn't like STV is locking players down. It is fair to question that even if it is week 3.

2 - re: impatience for draft class production. Again, this feels different if the Cardinals had been more aggressive in FA or in trades. Since day 1 I and other members on here have stated it is a fine line to walk if you are going to tear down a roster and then primarily use the draft to rebuild it. Draft picks are a bit of a crap shoot. This is known. But when this is how your GM wants to build his team, it places more urgency on those picks hitting and producing faster than the norm.