1 down, 2 to go!

[Yuma]

TMac gone. Arguably option number three from my rankings! Now just Shaq and Kobe left! Anyone starting to feel squeemish yet? I think Kobe can't pass up $50 million dollars (difference of $140 million LA can pay, and $90 million everyone else could), some player personnel say, and partial team ownership of the Lakers. Shaq, meanwhile, is trying to get traded AND keep his H-U-G-E salary! However, I don't think the Lakers can pawn Shaq off without a reworked deal. Shaq is hinting he wants a long term deal (says he can play 5-6 more years!) and may have to cut per year salary to get a deal done. Either way, LA STILL may be stuck with Shaq. IF (The REAL BIG IF) Kobe just CAN'T play WITH Shaq the next two years, he may bolt, breaking LA's hearts!!! (Does anyone feel sorry for them?) LA is praying Mark Cuban comes to the rescue!! Cuban COULD screw LA and get Kobe INSTEAD! That would frost LA! Kobe AND Nowitski? I shudder at the thought! I know, noone has rumored that! Suddenly Dallas jettisons a bunch of guys, looking at making cap space for Shaq, presumably, and suddenly signing Kobe! Priceless!! Who knows what will happen?

 

[elindholm]

I know, noone has rumored that!

That's because it's impossible. The most Dallas could offer Bryant is the MLE.

Suddenly Dallas jettisons a bunch of guys, looking at making cap space for Shaq, presumably, and suddenly signing Kobe!

It doesn't work that way. You can't "jettison" players just because they are inconvenient to your future plans. The only way to move them and gain cap room in the process would be to find a team with cap space willing to take them on. And given the players you're talking about, there's basically no chance of that.

Priceless!! Who knows what will happen?

We know what won't happen....

 

[Yuma]

I know, noone has rumored that!

That's because it's impossible. The most Dallas could offer Bryant is the MLE.

You forgot the previous point, Kobe leaving BECAUSE LA IS STUCK WITH SHAQ! THAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT! KOBE WOULDN't LEAVE LA UNLESS HE HATED SHAQ TOO MUCH TO PLAY WITH HIM AND LA WAS STUCK WITH SHAQ! PLEASE READ POST!!!

Suddenly Dallas jettisons a bunch of guys, looking at making cap space for Shaq, presumably, and suddenly signing Kobe!

It doesn't work that way. You can't "jettison" players just because they are inconvenient to your future plans. The only way to move them and gain cap room in the process would be to find a team with cap space willing to take them on. And given the players you're talking about, there's basically no chance of that.

Trades? Ever hear of trades?? Throw in a pick or two to make the medicine go down... It was rumored on draft day that Dallas may trade the picks they made later on in a deal to get cap space. They said that DURING the draft, that Dallas was accumulating pieces they may not keep!

Priceless!! Who knows what will happen?

We know what won't happen....

Apperantly you didn't read the post before you responded to it, so I guess you don't!

 

[Chaplin]

Was that really necessary? So much for a civilized conversation...

 

[elindholm]

Um, okay Yuma. If Bryant ends up in Dallas along with Nowitzki, I'll admit I was wrong.

Edit: Actually, no, I will go ahead and correct your misconceptions. Maybe you'll thank me for it later.

1. It doesn't make any difference how much Bryant hates O'Neal. He'll go to a team that can pay him the supermax over one that can offer him only the MLE. The difference in salary is about a factor of three.

The only possible exception would be the Knicks, owing to the endorsement opportunities presumably available in New York, but almost everyone regards that as the longest of long shots.

2. Trading away just-signed rookies gets you a few million dollars in cap space, tops. That's nowhere near enough to put together an offer for Bryant over the MLE. In a trade with a team over the cap, the Mavericks would have to take (nearly) equivalent salary back. I already addressed the possiblity of trades with teams under the cap.

3. Maybe your point is that Dallas could simply trade for Bryant directly. First of all, the Lakers have said they won't agree to a sign-and-trade. Even if they relent on that, who is supposed to come over from Dallas? The only player of close to equal value (in terms of talent) is Nowitzki, which means the two wouldn't be playing together.

It's true that I didn't account for every single micropossibility included within the realm of your original post, but that's because there were a lot of things I thought were obvious or already understood.

 

[carey]

I feel bad for Yuma. He's having serious anxiety issues over this off season. It's just a basketball team. Donate some of that nervous energy of yours to a charity. Help feed the homeless & starving.

 

[elindholm]

I'm wondering whether we should do an intervention.

 

[fordronken]

That was like watching one person walk up to another person and offer an opinion, have the second person disagree, then have the first person walk up to me, shout extatically, and punch me in the face. I feel violated. I want to throw up.

 

[TigToad]

nod

This seems like a pretty accurate way to describe it.

That was like watching one person walk up to another person and offer an opinion, have the second person disagree, then have the first person walk up to me, shout extatically, and punch me in the face. I feel violated. I want to throw up.

 

[Ryanwb]

Seriously, is Yuma sane?

 

[Yuma]

Seriously, is Yuma sane?

Ugh, NO!

 

[Gee!]

Seriously, is Yuma sane?

I havent thought Yuma was sane since the hulk avatar and the hulk smilies in every post.. plus the sig.."hulk misses"

 

[Yuma]

Um, okay Yuma. If Bryant ends up in Dallas along with Nowitzki, I'll admit I was wrong.

Edit: Actually, no, I will go ahead and correct your misconceptions. Maybe you'll thank me for it later.

1. It doesn't make any difference how much Bryant hates O'Neal. He'll go to a team that can pay him the supermax over one that can offer him only the MLE. The difference in salary is about a factor of three.

The only possible exception would be the Knicks, owing to the endorsement opportunities presumably available in New York, but almost everyone regards that as the longest of long shots.

2. Trading away just-signed rookies gets you a few million dollars in cap space, tops. That's nowhere near enough to put together an offer for Bryant over the MLE. In a trade with a team over the cap, the Mavericks would have to take (nearly) equivalent salary back. I already addressed the possiblity of trades with teams under the cap.

3. Maybe your point is that Dallas could simply trade for Bryant directly. First of all, the Lakers have said they won't agree to a sign-and-trade. Even if they relent on that, who is supposed to come over from Dallas? The only player of close to equal value (in terms of talent) is Nowitzki, which means the two wouldn't be playing together.

It's true that I didn't account for every single micropossibility included within the realm of your original post, but that's because there were a lot of things I thought were obvious or already understood.

I believe I started the post with NO WAY KOPE PASSES UP LA DEAL!

That stated, since you obviously chose to ignore point 1 of my post, assuming Kobe doesn't stay in LA what could possibly drive him away from LA? It would HAVE to be Shaq being STUCK in LA.

My reasoning for those two points? Because everyone else on this board is dillusionally believeing there is a CHANCE Kobe will come to PHOENIX:

To continue with the post, the one thing I hear the SD radio guys saying, is that Cuban will pick up Shaq, making it a done deal they get Kobe! That's also a point much discussed, but I didn't think I had to point THAT out. too! However improbable, it would be ironically delicious if Kobe went to Dallas, NOT Shaq! My post wasn't about the VIABILITY of it happening, rather the humorous irony of the savior Cuban really being the devil in the wings!

Now do you understand the post?

I guess Ryanwb was right, irony is lost on the masses that inhabit this forum!

 

[Yuma]

That was like watching one person walk up to another person and offer an opinion, have the second person disagree, then have the first person walk up to me, shout extatically, and punch me in the face. I feel violated. I want to throw up.

No, it was like an adult trying to explain a "simple" concept to another adult and having them not understand the most basic of principles! He was addressing the viability of Dallas obtaining Kobe, but refused to see the REAL thing I was trying to show him was ironic humor! That being said, his points were not even VALID. When you have a BILLIONAIRE that wants something, and he can only pay you a certain salary, do you think there are ways he can think of to get you on his team? Already the NBA GMs are bitching he is bending the rules of compensation for his players, or have you guys not read any of those gripes. It's been reported in reputable magazines like Forbes.

 

[elindholm]

He was addressing the viability of Dallas obtaining Kobe, but refused to see the REAL thing I was trying to show him was ironic humor!

A classic feint. Once your position is shown to be ridiculous, you claim it was a joke that no one was smart enough to get.

When you have a BILLIONAIRE that wants something, and he can only pay you a certain salary, do you think there are ways he can think of to get you on his team?

The NBA would be all over this. If Bryant signed for the MLE and was getting other considerations from Cuban, the league would sniff it out plenty quickly.

 

[Yuma]

Was that really necessary? So much for a civilized conversation...

All I ask is that you READ the post Chap. He took a portion of the post out of context, which made it entirely a different post, then regurgitated his "superior" thoughts, and they weren't even about what I posted about! I know I ask people to follow a reading style that is above eighth grade level, however they can keep the points in order at least when they respond! He skipped point one in my post which makes the post an entirely different entity! Can you blame me for being exasperated?

 

[fordronken]

No, it was like an adult trying to explain a "simple" concept to another adult and having them not understand the most basic of principles! He was addressing the viability of Dallas obtaining Kobe, but refused to see the REAL thing I was trying to show him was ironic humor! That being said, his points were not even VALID. When you have a BILLIONAIRE that wants something, and he can only pay you a certain salary, do you think there are ways he can think of to get you on his team? Already the NBA GMs are bitching he is bending the rules of compensation for his players, or have you guys not read any of those gripes. It's been reported in reputable magazines like Forbes.

If you read my post more carefully(in this case, not lost on the masses, but on an individual), you may notice that I was not creating a simile regarding what was being said, but how it was being expressed.

 

[elindholm]

All I ask is that you READ the post Chap.

We all read it. It still makes no sense.

He took a portion of the post out of context, which made it entirely a different post, then regurgitated his "superior" thoughts, and they weren't even about what I posted about!

I did no such thing. The part of your post I allegedly ignored had nothing to do with why your conclusions were absurd.

Besides, I thought you were saying it was a joke now?

I know I ask people to follow a reading style that is above eighth grade level

That's hardly fair, since you write at a fifth-grade level.

He skipped point one in my post which makes the post an entirely different entity!

No, it didn't. No matter what your reasons are for theorizing the impossible, it is still impossible.

 

[Yuma]

He was addressing the viability of Dallas obtaining Kobe, but refused to see the REAL thing I was trying to show him was ironic humor!

A classic feint. Once your position is shown to be ridiculous, you claim it was a joke that no one was smart enough to get.

When you have a BILLIONAIRE that wants something, and he can only pay you a certain salary, do you think there are ways he can think of to get you on his team?

The NBA would be all over this. If Bryant signed for the MLE and was getting other considerations from Cuban, the league would sniff it out plenty quickly.

It's been reported ad nauseum that Cuban gets special flights, special jets, better hotel rooms, special trainers and chefs for almost EVERY player, usually gives guys way more salary than other GMS are willing to give, etc. I could go on, but obviously you won't even do a search to see the articles on Cuban and how he is disenfranchising himself from the rest of the owners in the NBA. The NBA HAS looked into it, and there are NO RULES against what he is doing. He's smart! Obviously you don't want to admit that.

"A classic feint. Once your position is shown to be ridiculous, you claim it was a joke that no one was smart enough to get."

Well do you admit that you DIDN'T even mention my first point before you started blathering about Dallas can do this, Dallas can't do that... No where do you even say, I agree with you Kobe WILL stay in LA, or your first point is wrong because... The whole post is built on one point after the other. To take the first point out when you respond to it, is to make it another post. I've reread your post and I don't see anywhere you even allude to point 1 in my original post!

 

[Yuma]

All I ask is that you READ the post Chap.

We all read it. It still makes no sense.

He took a portion of the post out of context, which made it entirely a different post, then regurgitated his "superior" thoughts, and they weren't even about what I posted about!

I did no such thing. The part of your post I allegedly ignored had nothing to do with why your conclusions were absurd.

Besides, I thought you were saying it was a joke now?

I know I ask people to follow a reading style that is above eighth grade level

That's hardly fair, since you write at a fifth-grade level.

He skipped point one in my post which makes the post an entirely different entity!

No, it didn't. No matter what your reasons are for theorizing the impossible, it is still impossible.

You still don't get it? Do I have to put it in bullet format for you! You did SKIP point one! Now you said you didn't? Even you can see you aren't being logical there! You're just being defensive!

 

[elindholm]

I honestly can't tell whether you're serious, but I'll assume that you are.

It's been reported ad nauseum that Cuban gets special flights, special jets, better hotel rooms...

Yes, and he does. But that's a lot different from paying someone $15 million instead of $5 million. I think Bryant would see it that way too.

The NBA HAS looked into it, and there are NO RULES against what he is doing. He's smart! Obviously you don't want to admit that.

I think Cuban's great, but he has to play by the same salary cap as everyone else. Maybe the question is whether I think Cuban is so smart that he can defy the laws of mathematics. I don't.

Well do you admit that you DIDN'T even mention my first point before you started blathering about Dallas can do this, Dallas can't do that...

That's because it's not relevant. I could say, "Bryant hates O'Neal, and therefore he will grow wings and fly to the moon." The first part of my statement being true does not make the second part any more valid.

No where do you even say, I agree with you Kobe WILL stay in LA, or your first point is wrong because...

I think Bryant will stay in Los Angeles, but I agree he could leave. So what?

The whole post is built on one point after the other.

Not in any remotely logical way.

By the way, you are really starting to irritate me and I am about to become significantly less polite. I've been a lot more civil than you up to this point.

 

[fordronken]

Also, Yuma, if I may offer a suggestion, I'd like to let you know that in my personal experience(which is somewhat extensive regarding this subject), capital letters, bold face and enlargement in a written form is used to accent a point and draw specific attention to it. If it is used in massive quantities, the point is lost and is in fact much less compelling than if it were merely written plainly. The more something like that is used, the higher the chance it will be ignored, passed over or dismissed. It also tends to remove a good deal of the writers' credibility in the eyes of their readers.

 

[elindholm]

Just for the record, Yuma, what was your "Point #1"?

Now just Shaq and Kobe left! Anyone starting to feel squeemish yet?

Yes, I am, except that most eighth-graders would spell it "squeamish."

I think Kobe can't pass up $50 million dollars (difference of $140 million LA can pay, and $90 million everyone else could)

The correct numbers have been posted a thousand times and I'm not going to look them up for you. The salary difference isn't nearly that great if you compare apples to apples.

and partial team ownership of the Lakers.

Impossible -- violates the CBA and would be caught quickly.

Shaq, meanwhile, is trying to get traded AND keep his H-U-G-E salary! However, I don't think the Lakers can pawn Shaq off without a reworked deal.

The Lakers have absolutely no ability to "rework" O'Neal's deal. The only issue is whether O'Neal agrees in principle to a more affordable extension with his prospective new team.

Shaq is hinting he wants a long term deal (says he can play 5-6 more years!) and may have to cut per year salary to get a deal done. Either way, LA STILL may be stuck with Shaq.

Yes, both of these are true.

IF (The REAL BIG IF) Kobe just CAN'T play WITH Shaq the next two years, he may bolt, breaking LA's hearts!!!

Yes, that's also true.

Did we get to Point #1 yet? What part did I miss?

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I have a headache



Yuma, please read Larry Coon's FAQ a couple more times.

20. Can a team circumvent the salary cap by paying a player less but arranging for an affiliated company to also pay him, perhaps by way of an endorsement contract?
I suppose it could happen, but the NBA will investigate if it suspects that an outside person or organization is paying a player on behalf or at the request of a team. If they find out that such an event has occurred, they will penalize the team. For the first offense by a team, the fine can be up to $2,500,000, forfeiture of a first round draft pick, and/or voiding the player's contract. The penalties increase for subsequent violations.

Incidentally, with the new CBA they did away with the ability for players to become player-coaches. This is because it would be possible to circumvent the cap by signing a player as a player-coach, and paying him less as a player but overpaying him as a coach.

Thats about the endorsement route. There was speculation that the Knicks could get Kobe to play in NY for the MLE because Nike was willing to double his salary if he played in NY.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Like Slin has said, the differnce will be about 15-20 million if you set both deals at 6 years between the LA and Phx offers.

The Mavs could offer a max of about 40-45 million over 6 years, a good 60 million short of the Phx offer.

NBA contracts cannot be renegotiated like you can in other sports.