10 thoughts - Cards' day three draft

[Gandhi]

1 – People tend to shrug their shoulders of the third day. You are fooling yourself if you are doing that. Sure, many of the players will be cut already after training camp, but the third day is where you build the foundation of your team. Not every player can be a first- or second round pick. The third day is extremely important.

2 – I could not care any less of how old Chris Matthew will be as a rookie. If he gives them three years of solid production, that is more than fine with me. How many players are actually with a team for 10 years?

3 – Marquis Hayes was – along with Cameron Thomas – my favorite pick, and I have higher hopes for him than Lecitus Smith. However, in a way it is kind of a red flag to me that he was even on the board that late. How can that happen? He should have been long gone by then.

5 – I don’t like to spend a fullblown ST-pick. #Luketa

5 – I was not satisfied with the NFL Network’s coverage this year. Too little focus on the picks.

6 – I guess you must factor in Marco Wilson and Zach Ertz when evaluating how the third day picks were used. And then the haul looks better.

7 – The day told me that they are looking for a free agent cornerback (cough cough, James Bradberry).

8 – Can Hayes and Smith compete for starting duties? I think they can – and I am even cautiously optimistic about Justin Murray and Will Hernandez.

9 – Runningback is probably the only position where Keim has consistently drafted players that have produced. We will see with Ingram.

10 – I give this draft a B- .

 

[oaken1]

I have hopes for McBride.
A legit REAL TE is rare in the modern nfl.

But that name though.... sounds like the kid should be wearing a stetson and shades working alongside Magic Mike

 

[RON_IN_OC]

I have hopes for McBride.
A legit REAL TE is rare in the modern nfl.

But that name though.... sounds like the kid should be wearing a stetson and shades working alongside Magic Mike

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[Krangodnzr]

1 – People tend to shrug their shoulders of the third day. You are fooling yourself if you are doing that. Sure, many of the players will be cut already after training camp, but the third day is where you build the foundation of your team. Not every player can be a first- or second round pick. The third day is extremely important.

Agree to an extent. But pay attention to this "These stars were selected in this round" bits and you'll see that there are often gaps of YEARS where no stars are selected. Also go back and look at the 2018 draft at rounds 5-7 and pay attention to how many of those players play a meaningful role in the NFL. You'll see a few...which means that the vast majority of these guys won't be on the team or any team 3-4 years down the line.

2 – I could not care any less of how old Chris Matthew will be as a rookie. If he gives them three years of solid production, that is more than fine with me. How many players are actually with a team for 10 years?

Agreed. This is really only an issue for day one and day two picks.

3 – Marquis Hayes was – along with Cameron Thomas – my favorite pick, and I have higher hopes for him than Lecitus Smith. However, in a way it is kind of a red flag to me that he was even on the board that late. How can that happen? He should have been long gone by then.

There are a ton of variables for why this might be, and sometimes teams were just wrong.

5 – I don’t like to spend a fullblown ST-pick. #Luketa

I can the concept with him:. A guy who was lost playing off the ball who looks like he could develop into something on the ball.

The problem I have is the numbers game: if he is a LB, he has a real tough chance making the roster. Why take someone who had like a 5% to make the roster and is a longshot to develop in the first place?

5 – I was not satisfied with the NFL Network’s coverage this year. Too little focus on the picks.

I stick with ESPNs coverage.

6 – I guess you must factor in Marco Wilson and Zach Ertz when evaluating how the third day picks were used. And then the haul looks better.

Yeah that explains less picks than they could have. And frankly, those players are better than the picks.

I've seen the criticism for the Hollywood pick and one of the comments is laughable: "The Cardinals could have drafted a WR @ 23." Who? Skyy Moore? Christian Watson? Hollywood is better than those guys as a prospect and even better as a proven commodity. And adding a 3rd round pick is what makes the trade really worthwhile.

7 – The day told me that they are looking for a free agent cornerback (cough cough, James Bradberry).

Disagree. I think if they add a veteran, it's a cheap veteran. The team sees Murphy, Wilson, and Gladney as their top three and unless it's a star (who they won't want to pay), I don't think they want to spend much.

8 – Can Hayes and Smith compete for starting duties? I think they can – and I am even cautiously optimistic about Justin Murray and Will Hernandez.

I don't think so. I think these guys have some holes to their game and are viewed as developmental guys.

9 – Runningback is probably the only position where Keim has consistently drafted players that have produced. We will see with Ingram.

And safety. It's funny when you other teams that draft good OL but can't find safeties. If I'm an owner, I'm doing some analysis and building a team of scouts who can find both.

10 – I give this draft a B- .

I give a B ish. I don't really like grades much.

 

[CardLogic]

5 – I don’t like to spend a fullblown ST-pick. #Luketa

5 – I was not satisfied with the NFL Network’s coverage this year. Too little focus on the picks.

First #5 - I hate the thought, but I see Luketa as being a cheap insurance pick. That is, if Collins is still unable to handle the job of "on-field defensive coordinator" then Luketa, even though much less an athlete than Collins, could fill the role.
But that can't be the case, can it?

Second #5 - NFL Network's third day coverage was nearly unwatchable! Overall the coverage has become more about "the show" than about the draft. The red carpet, the entertainment, the almost painful attempts to be all-inclusive. I miss the old days. . . FRG!!

 

[Harry]

2. Speed bothers me more than age.

3. He’s a coach up project. He positions his feet erratically and has issue with hand use. Poor body control is a red flag for some teams.

8. No

 

[Gandhi]

Agree to an extent. But pay attention to this "These stars were selected in this round" bits and you'll see that there are often gaps of YEARS where no stars are selected. Also go back and look at the 2018 draft at rounds 5-7 and pay attention to how many of those players play a meaningful role in the NFL. You'll see a few...which means that the vast majority of these guys won't be on the team or any team 3-4 years down the line.

Well, you are obviously right that only a few of them (relatively speaking) become stars, but I did not write that they would be starts. Only that they will be the foundation of your team. And if you look at every roster in the NFL you will see that they include many players drafted on day three. I guess it is a logical result of the many, many players drafted on this day (or undrafted), but I think that only underlines my point.

I give a B ish. I don't really like grades much.

I think it is about the perspective. If you judge by how the players will do, then yes, of course it is meaningless to evaluate a draft right after. However, if you evaluate based on your thoughts and views going into it, then I think it is perfectly fair.

 

[Gandhi]

Second #5 - NFL Network's third day coverage was nearly unwatchable! Overall the coverage has become more about "the show" than about the draft. The red carpet, the entertainment, the almost painful attempts to be all-inclusive. I miss the old days. . . FRG!!

First of all, “impressive” that I cannot count to 10, and have to include two point 5’s. I was tired, the girlfriend called, my head hurt, the moon was in an usual position relative to the stars, and I can give many more great excuses.

I absolutely agree, CL. It is too focused on family-entertainment than the actual selection process. I would really like to watch ESPN’s coverage instead. Is that more focused on the draft? The issue, though, is that I live in Denmark, so I cannot get ESPN, as the draft coverage is not available on their app, that works in Europe, so I can only watch NFL Network through their Europe Gamepass.

 

[BritCard]

3. He’s a coach up project. He positions his feet erratically and has issue with hand use. Poor body control is a red flag for some teams.

Maybe so but nothing worse than anyone taken after round 3. A lot of guys from 4 onwards have technical issues.

 

[tnmike]

Maybe so but nothing worse than anyone taken after round 3. A lot of guys from 4 onwards have technical issues.

A regular dose of Metamucil will solve most technical issues

 

[Gandhi]

Disagree. I think if they add a veteran, it's a cheap veteran. The team sees Murphy, Wilson, and Gladney as their top three and unless it's a star (who they won't want to pay), I don't think they want to spend much.

Maybe you are right, but it is also worth considering that effective today any free agent deal will no longer count against the compensatory picks formula. I have a thought that it might have been one reason they did not sign anyone to a big contract. Both Chandler Jones and Kirk should give them at least two fourth, I would guess.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Maybe you are right, but it is also worth considering that effective today any free agent deal will no longer count against the compensatory picks formula. I have a thought that it might have been one reason they did not sign anyone to a big contract. Both Chandler Jones and Kirk should give them at least two fourth, I would guess.

Probably a 3rd and a 5th.

There is a rule about veterans after a certain number of years aren't counted as highly as they should be.

Kirk will definitely be a 3rd.

And you raise a point that I think we WILL see more of: the Cardinals will start letting a star or two go on the regular to keep costs down and get those compensatory picks.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Maybe you are right, but it is also worth considering that effective today any free agent deal will no longer count against the compensatory picks formula. I have a thought that it might have been one reason they did not sign anyone to a big contract. Both Chandler Jones and Kirk should give them at least two fourth, I would guess.

As far as adding a veteran corner, the team is obviously happy with Murphy, Wilson, and Gladney. That's the top three corners and I don't think that changes. That means the Cardinals will be looking at CB 5, because Antonio Hamilton is CB 4. You don't throw significant resources at CB 5.

 

[Garthshort]

Maybe you are right, but it is also worth considering that effective today any free agent deal will no longer count against the compensatory picks formula. I have a thought that it might have been one reason they did not sign anyone to a big contract. Both Chandler Jones and Kirk should give them at least two fourth, I would guess.

I'd love to have Bradbury, but he seems that he'd cost too much. If $$$$ can be worked out, he'd be a great pickup. Just, doubt that it can.

 

[BritCard]

James Bradberry is this years Steven Nelson. Everyone seems to want him but he's not actually very good now. He was pretty average last year. If he was good, the Giants wouldn't be trying to get rid of him when he has an 10m dead cap hit.

 

[Gandhi]

James Bradberry is this years Steven Nelson. Everyone seems to want him but he's not actually very good now. He was pretty average last year. If he was good, the Giants wouldn't be trying to get rid of him when he has an 10m dead cap hit.

I disagree, BritCard. I think he was better last year than you imply, and the year before he played at a very high level. And sure, the Giants would take a big cap hit, but if they keep him, he would count about 21 million against their cap. By trading him, they would save more than 13 million. Right now they have about 6 million is cap space, and they need about 12.5 to sign their rookie class. Yes, they could obviously restructure Bradberry's contract, but that would still only push his salary into the future, and new general manager, Joe Schoen, is looking to clear some of the bad contracts from the old regime.

In other words, I don't think it is a Nelson-case.

 

[Krangodnzr]

James Bradberry is this years Steven Nelson. Everyone seems to want him but he's not actually very good now. He was pretty average last year. If he was good, the Giants wouldn't be trying to get rid of him when he has an 10m dead cap hit.

He's closing in on 30 AND is a free agent after this season. And he is scheduled to make $13 million.

If he was the last link for a Super Bowl team, I'd consider it...but if you had to give up even a 4th...that's probably too much.

 

[Gandhi]

He's closing in on 30 AND is a free agent after this season. And he is scheduled to make $13 million.

If he was the last link for a Super Bowl team, I'd consider it...but if you had to give up even a 4th...that's probably too much.

Oh, definitely. A fourth round pick is too much. If they will not restructure his contract, they will probably have to cut him if they don't find a trade partner, since they need the big cap room they can get, so trading a pick for him would only be to keep other interested teams away.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Oh, definitely. A fourth round pick is too much. If they will not restructure his contract, they will probably have to cut him if they don't find a trade partner, since they need the big cap room they can get, so trading a pick for him would only be to keep other interested teams away.

In this circumstance, the Giants might actually have to give up a pick to move him LOL

 

[reebokalone2001]

Agree to an extent. But pay attention to this "These stars were selected in this round" bits and you'll see that there are often gaps of YEARS where no stars are selected. Also go back and look at the 2018 draft at rounds 5-7 and pay attention to how many of those players play a meaningful role in the NFL. You'll see a few...which means that the vast majority of these guys won't be on the team or any team 3-4 years down the line.

Agreed. This is really only an issue for day one and day two picks.

There are a ton of variables for why this might be, and sometimes teams were just wrong.

I can the concept with him:. A guy who was lost playing off the ball who looks like he could develop into something on the ball.

The problem I have is the numbers game: if he is a LB, he has a real tough chance making the roster. Why take someone who had like a 5% to make the roster and is a longshot to develop in the first place?

I stick with ESPNs coverage.

Yeah that explains less picks than they could have. And frankly, those players are better than the picks.

I've seen the criticism for the Hollywood pick and one of the comments is laughable: "The Cardinals could have drafted a WR @ 23." Who? Skyy Moore? Christian Watson? Hollywood is better than those guys as a prospect and even better as a proven commodity. And adding a 3rd round pick is what makes the trade really worthwhile.

Disagree. I think if they add a veteran, it's a cheap veteran. The team sees Murphy, Wilson, and Gladney as their top three and unless it's a star (who they won't want to pay), I don't think they want to spend much.

I don't think so. I think these guys have some holes to their game and are viewed as developmental guys.


And safety. It's funny when you other teams that draft good OL but can't find safeties. If I'm an owner, I'm doing some analysis and building a team of scouts who can find both.

I give a B ish. I don't really like grades much.

This 100%.

 

[reebokalone2001]

Probably a 3rd and a 5th.

There is a rule about veterans after a certain number of years aren't counted as highly as they should be.

Kirk will definitely be a 3rd.

And you raise a point that I think we WILL see more of: the Cardinals will start letting a star or two go on the regular to keep costs down and get those compensatory picks.

TBH, I don't see it as a bad strategy to build a team given how much money is tied with the QB nowadays.

 

[Gandhi]

In this circumstance, the Giants might actually have to give up a pick to move him LOL

Cap-strapped Giants expected to part ways with James Bradberry by 'end of the week'

www.nfl.com

Schoen wisely waited as long as he realistically could before making a decision on Bradberry, who has plenty of value as a quality corner but also carries a $21.86 million cap number into 2022. That number makes Bradberry staying with the Giants -- a team that figures to be roughly $7 million over the cap after signing rookie deals -- financially prohibitive.

Schoen bided his time while waiting for interested clubs to call the Giants and make an offer for Bradberry, a cornerback who proved to be a Pro Bowl-caliber defender in 2020 and isn't yet 30 years old. The Giants GM didn't get much traction, though, as most teams knew New York couldn't afford to keep Bradberry and would eventually be forced to release him.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Cap-strapped Giants expected to part ways with James Bradberry by 'end of the week'

www.nfl.com

Schoen wisely waited as long as he realistically could before making a decision on Bradberry, who has plenty of value as a quality corner but also carries a $21.86 million cap number into 2022. That number makes Bradberry staying with the Giants -- a team that figures to be roughly $7 million over the cap after signing rookie deals -- financially prohibitive.

Schoen bided his time while waiting for interested clubs to call the Giants and make an offer for Bradberry, a cornerback who proved to be a Pro Bowl-caliber defender in 2020 and isn't yet 30 years old. The Giants GM didn't get much traction, though, as most teams knew New York couldn't afford to keep Bradberry and would eventually be forced to release him.

He's a nice player who has had an up and down career.

My problem with him is that he would be an expensive one year player, and if you signed him to a more friendly (to this years cap) long term deal, he might end up declining while you're paying him $15+ million per season.

Sometimes circumstances just don't align right and you just have to let someone else take that risk.

 

[BritCard]

He's a nice player who has had an up and down career.

My problem with him is that he would be an expensive one year player, and if you signed him to a more friendly (to this years cap) long term deal, he might end up declining while you're paying him $15+ million per season.

Sometimes circumstances just don't align right and you just have to let someone else take that risk.

He's Fools Gold IMO.

 

[Gandhi]

My problem with him is that he would be an expensive one year player, and if you signed him to a more friendly (to this years cap) long term deal, he might end up declining while you're paying him $15+ million per season.

I agree that a one year deal would not be wise. It is too expensive when you can not manipulate the salary cap, but have to take the hit right away. However, for that reason, I would not mind signing him to a three year deal. You can construct that in many way, and since they have basically no dead money now, it would not be that big a deal if he leaves a little behind.

I will admit, though, that I feel that cornerback is a bigger need than probably the majority on this board, and Bradberry would be an upgrade over anyone of them not named Byron Murphy.