100% guarentee Cards will not take Sean Taylor

[KingLouieLouie]

I guess I'm against drafting Gallery because I immediately think of "BIG" and how he hasn't lived-up thus far to a 2nd over-all pick.....I know it's too premature to deem him as a "bust", but it seems that in most instances that whenever any "can't miss" OL is selected that high in the draft, they seldom "pan out".... Doesn't even Tony Mandarich come to mind?

WR, it typically takes a top-notch collegiate one to develop to NFL calibre until at least their 3rd year(of course there's instances such as Anquan who was NFL calibre at every position before he was even conceived).... Plus, the Cardinals still must acquire a veteran WR, especially while having younger QBs with McCown and/or King....

RB, in most cases they make an immediate impact and I would be in favor of drafting one with the 3rd pick, but I don't know much regarding Steven Jackson to judge whether or not he's worth that high of pick..I consider Kevin Jones and everyone else at that position not being selected at least as high as 6th over-all....

QB, I've already stated my opinion on that matter and rather not rehash every 5 minutes....

TE, They already have Freddie Jones who is still relatively young and is pro-bowl calibre...

We all know the Cardinals biggest need is either on the DL or DB, but as has been mentioned, Sean Taylor is the only player who may be a #3, but will he live-up to that? Obviously nothing is ever guaranteed...

So, I just have this notion that since they haven't obtained a WR during the initial phase of FA, they'll draft either Fitzgerald or Mike Williams at #3 or trade down (which with this being a deep draft, I wouldnt mind them taking that risk).....

 

[JeffGollin]

The Cardinals need additional impact players. At #3 we should be able to get an impact player.

My definition of an "impact player" - "Someone who can make a play that can will flip a game." This can take the form of: (a) a killer QB. (b) a home run wide receiver/TE, (c) a RB with either home run or smashmouth ability, (d) a sackmeister, (e) a fumble forcer or (f) an interceptor.

Robert Gallery - while a potential All Pro - is none of these.

Right now, as configured, the Cardinals are mostly "belly" and without many great arms and legs. We simply don't have enough explosive playmakers on our roster. And when we've had to go to the well, we frequently come up empty.

Therefore: The 2 QB's make sense at #3. The top WR's make sense. Winslow even makes sense. Taylor makes sense. (Wilfork probably doesn't make sense, although I guess you could argue that a guy who can totally stuff the run makes an impact).

 

[john h]

Please. Larry Fitzgerald, if anything, is an even worse fit for the Cards.

Skkorp, in regards to "Cardinal Strengths and Weaknesses", I think that you'll agree that the number one weakness that the Cards have, and you heard it over and over last season, was a playmaker. Definitely on defense, less so on offense. If nothing else, Sean Taylor is a playmaker of the first degree, against the run, in coverage, and in the blitz.

If the Adrian Wilson-as-cornerback experiment is successful in the minicamps, the Cards not only will have a glaring need for a defensive playmaker, but also for a strong safety. This makes it more likely that the Cards take the head-and-shoulders-best defensive player in the draft, not less so

As for being an "apologist", I don't see what we have to apologize for. Thinking the Cards need the best defensive player in the draft and front-runner for DROY is hardly something to regret. Perhaps we can end up filing this thread in the "The Cards are going to go 10-6" and "Dennis Johnson is not going to make this team" file.

EDIT: I'm not saying that we'll draft Sean Taylor. I think that there's maybe a 8-1 chance that we will. I'm just saying that to say that drafting him makes no sense is insane.

With all the wide receivers people are talking about drafting or trading down for we will be a team of great receivers, unknown QB's, lesser DB's and a less than steller DL. Will be great to watch these speedy guys run down the field as the QB runs for his life. I like a couple of these receivers but is that really our greatest need or are the receivers just the best players at our draft position?

 

[Southpaw]

With all the wide receivers people are talking about drafting or trading down for we will be a team of great receivers, unknown QB's, lesser DB's and a less than steller DL. Will be great to watch these speedy guys run down the field as the QB runs for his life. I like a couple of these receivers but is that really our greatest need or are the receivers just the best players at our draft position?

Well stated. I don't know how #1 and #2 last year were WR and fans want WR again #1 and aren't even talking speed receiver. Cards have big holes and don't seem to have filled any in FA so far.

 

[joeshmo]

The Cardinals need additional impact players. At #3 we should be able to get an impact player.

My definition of an "impact player" - "Someone who can make a play that can will flip a game." This can take the form of: (a) a killer QB. (b) a home run wide receiver/TE, (c) a RB with either home run or smashmouth ability, (d) a sackmeister, (e) a fumble forcer or (f) an interceptor.

Robert Gallery - while a potential All Pro - is none of these.

Right now, as configured, the Cardinals are mostly "belly" and without many great arms and legs. We simply don't have enough explosive playmakers on our roster. And when we've had to go to the well, we frequently come up empty.

Therefore: The 2 QB's make sense at #3. The top WR's make sense. Winslow even makes sense. Taylor makes sense. (Wilfork probably doesn't make sense, although I guess you could argue that a guy who can totally stuff the run makes an impact).

I agree to what you are saying and some of the logic behind it but my definition of an impact player is a little different.

This - "Robert Gallery - while a potential All Pro" is directly linked to and would help in a big way to make one of these an impact player, (a) a killer QB. (b) a home run wide receiver/TE, (c) a RB with either home run or smashmouth ability. Hence making Gallery an "impact player" IMO.

And Wilfork is an impact player not only becuase he stuffs the run(which by the way should be #g on your list of "forms of impact players"), but he would be a 5 sack DT every year and taking up bodies making the (d) a sackmeister, (e) a fumble forcer or (f) an interceptor, do there jobs better and helping to make them more of an "impact player".

What I mean is I dont care what a guys stats are, if he makes the players around him better then he is an "impact player". For example lets say that Boldin only gets 500 yards next year but B.Johnson gains 1400+ yards and Shipp gets 1300+yards, and McCown gets 3000+yards. They were all made impact players becuase teams were to worried about Boldin and scheming against Boldin. Becuase of this, although Boldin didnt have the stats I would still consider him to be an impact player. Same goes for Berry he can only have 5 sacks this year but if the other dlinemen rack up the sacks becuase teams were double teaming Berry then I would consider Berry and impact player as well.

Hence making Wilfork and Gallery on my impact list.

Fitz, M. Williams, Taylor, Wilfork, Gallery, Eli, Ben, and with a few exceptions Winslow and Jackson(if picked out of the top 7). I will be very happy with any one of these guys on our team.

I just dont think we can go wrong in this years first round if we stay in the top 8.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

Perhaps I approach the method of drafting incorrectly, but will there be a player better than Sean Taylor that will be available in the '05 draft wherever the Cardinals may pick? If not, then they must draft Sean Taylor at #3, especially if there are the same/better players who will be in '05 at other needs positions for the Cardinals.....

 

[kerouac9]

Perhaps I approach the method of drafting incorrectly, but will there be a player better than Sean Taylor that will be available in the '05 draft wherever the Cardinals may pick? If not, then they must draft Sean Taylor at #3, especially if there are the same/better players who will be in '05 at other needs positions for the Cardinals.....

Great post. We might not see a better player than Sean Taylor for the next five years.

 

[Southpaw]

Great post. We might not see a better player than Sean Taylor for the next five years.

And plug him in for 10 years.

 

[vikesfan]

Well the people who picked BIG will not be making the pick this year.

If you look at the bust rate for OL. The lowest is for OL> Almost every starting LT in the NFL was a round 1 pick. This is the safest pick in the draft.

RBs WRs QBs all bust at a much higher rate.


You really want to get a guy who you can plug in for 10 years and who will be competing for pro-bowl playing times that is the kind of guys DG was drafting in the later part of the first round. You better believe he wants that in the first part of the first round.

 

[kerouac9]

If you look at the bust rate for OL. The lowest is for OL> Almost every starting LT in the NFL was a round 1 pick. This is the safest pick in the draft.

BS. Prove it.

Top 10 OTs By Year:

2003 1 1 8 8 Jordan Gross Panthers Utah (Played out of position, but did well)
2001 1 1 2 2 Leonard Davis Cardinals Texas (Guard now, no Pro Bowls, Called out by HC)
2000 1 1 3 3 Chris Samuels Redskins Alabama (Pro Bowls? Roundly Criticized by media in 2003)
1998 1 1 7 7 Kyle Turley Saints San Diego State (Traded, Possibly cost team playoff spot, overrated)
1997 1 1 1 1 Orlando Pace Rams Ohio State (Two-time franchise player and headache, wants $27 mil. signing bonus)
---- 2 1 6 6 Walter Jones Seahawks Florida State (Three-time franchise player and headache)
1996 1 1 4 4 Jonathan Ogden Ravens UCLA (Really, really good)
---- 2 1 10 10 Willie Anderson Bengals Auburn (Um... Who? Bengals drafted Levi Jones in 2002)
1995 1 1 2 2 Tony Boselli Jaguars USC (Out of football, but multiple Pro-Bowler, barely played last three seasons)

Nice try, though.

 

[kerouac9]

Vikesfan

I take it back. 19 of the 32 starting LOTs in the NFL are former first round picks, 59.4 percent. A staggering 26 of 32 starting LOTs (81.3%) were drafted in the first or second rounds.

That being said, though, the Cards already have a near-elite LT in L.J. Shelton. The warts are starting to come out on Robert Gallery, and I don't know if L.J. can't be a Pro-Bowler with a good QB, good RB, and good offensive system. I'm tempted to not fix something until we know what's broken, since I personally believe that the offensive line is plenty talented enough, but lacked an offensive scheme that utilized their talents.

As you've repeated ad nauseum, Denny Green is a good coach. He should be able to make these guys work as a unit, and work well. If OT is still a problem, we can fit it in 2005, either through free agency or the draft.

 

[Lex]

Kerouac-

Sean Taylor is dropping like a rock, Gallery is rising to the top. I'm trusting Denny's evaluation of our offensive line, which will begin this weekend. I like LJ, we just extended him, and if we get Gallery, I'd plug him in at AC's RT spot, and leave LJ on the left for this year. I think Big was moved to the RG spot last year to compensate for AC's ineptness. Denny has already moved Big back to LJ's side, so the right side is wide open.

 

[joeshmo]

Kerouac-

Sean Taylor is dropping like a rock, Gallery is rising to the top. I'm trusting Denny's evaluation of our offensive line, which will begin this weekend. I like LJ, we just extended him, and if we get Gallery, I'd plug him in at AC's RT spot, and leave LJ on the left for this year. I think Big was moved to the RG spot last year to compensate for AC's ineptness. Denny has already moved Big back to LJ's side, so the right side is wide open.

Correct me if I a wrong but hasnt Big always been on the right side.

 

[kerouac9]

Correct me if I a wrong but hasnt Big always been on the right side.

That's what I thought, too. But nice try, Lex.

Also:

Correct I like LJ, we just extended him, and if we get Gallery, I'd plug him in at AC's RT spot, and leave LJ on the left for this year.

And then what after 2004? Let an OLT who isn't really big or strong enough (too finesse) to play RT play it for the next six to eight seasons? We're locked in with L.J. for the next four or five seasons.

Besides, as I said elsewhere, the warts are starting to show on your boy Robert:

As more NFL position coaches start getting involved with the evaluation of draft prospects, the process takes on a different flavor. While the workout numbers are very important to scouts, coaches want to see film and will watch hours of it. They already have had interesting things to say about this year's top tackle prospects.

On Iowa's Robert Gallery: "He has small feet and small hands, and his bulk appears to be weight-room manufactured, which may be tough to maintain with the rigors of the long NFL season."

Also, because he played college football under one of the nation's best offensive line coaches, Hawkeyes head coach Kirk Ferentz, some think Gallery may be at full potential, with little upside.

Personally, I think that Taylor is still a Top 10 pick, and whomever gets him is going to be very, very happy. The Cards, in need not of more ten-digit offensive linemen but playmakers on defense, would be well-advised to take him.

 

[schel]

Correct me if I a wrong but hasnt Big always been on the right side.

Even though it didn't really sound like it, he probably meant that they moved Big from the left side (from his college days) to the right.

 

[kerouac9]

Even though it didn't really sound like it, he probably meant that they moved Big from the left side (from his college days) to the right.

You mean where Pete Kendall, our best offensive lineman, has been playing the past few years? I somehow doubt it.

 

[Lex]

Ok Kerouac-

Pete Kendall started at left gaurd, alongside LJ till he got hurt in 2001. In 2002, he he was still there till he got hurt. In 2003 he moved to center.

Big was an LT at Texas. In 2001 he was our right gaurd, alongside AC. In 2002 he was moved to right tackle, replacing AC, who was out with the torn triceps. In 2003, he should have replaced Kendall at left gaurd, but stayed on the right side to help out AC. This year Denny has announced Big will move to LG.

AC just hasn't been the same since the triceps injury, our gaurds are suspect at best. I think Pete Kendall is a good center, and the position change should prolong his career, but this will be his 9th year in the NFL, and he has 4 screws holding his foot together.

In my mind, we have three offensive linemen that will be on the team FOR SURE, and they would be BIG, LJ, and Pete. I'm hoping that Big has been "miscast" on this line by the old regime, because if he can't play tackle in the NFL, we made a huge mistake on him.

Bottom line: our offensive line has not been acceptable, I don't care how many picks we've used in the past, it's not acceptable. We need to do whatever it takes to correct the problems. Every success on this team starts and ends at the offensive line.

 

[Southpaw]

The Texans are expected to focus on defense during the early rounds of the April 24-25 draft. Sean Taylor of Miami is widely considered the best safety in the draft, but unless the Texans trade up, he is likely to be gone by the time they select in the first round.

Har Har. Dropping like a rock, my Hiney.

 

[CardsRep03]

No matter how good Sean Taylor is going to be I just don't see the Cardinals selecting him anywhere in the first round. WR or QB is what we'll pick. I'm absolutely postitive, I think.

 

[imaCafan]

No matter how good Sean Taylor is going to be I just don't see the Cardinals selecting him anywhere in the first round. WR or QB is what we'll pick. I'm absolutely postitive, I think.

And I'm absolutely sure I think you're right.......

 

[jw7]

*bump*

Skkorp - I will take you up on this bet with the caveat that Fitz is off the board.

If Fitz is there, the Cards take him. If not, the Cards do not trade down and they take Taylor.

Fair?

 

[Skkorpion]

*bump*

Skkorp - I will take you up on this bet with the caveat that Fitz is off the board.

If Fitz is there, the Cards take him. If not, the Cards do not trade down and they take Taylor.

Fair?

Done

 

[Red Air Force]

*bump*

Skkorp - I will take you up on this bet with the caveat that Fitz is off the board.

If Fitz is there, the Cards take him. If not, the Cards do not trade down and they take Taylor.

Fair?

Done

I'll take some of that action.

 

[Skkorpion]

I'll take some of that action.

Done.

 

[jerryp]

You guys are chumps.

I would have at least offered "If Fitz is gone we take Taylor." That would have at least left you the possibility of a trade down and take Taylor.

Now you're making three bets that you have to win to payoff.

1. Fitz is taken #1 or #2
2. We don't trade down
3. We take Taylor

Skkorp =