12News showed a blurb with Stern

[Evil Ash]

Common sense would say you dont attempt to read minds and you go on players actions instead. There was no altercation so there was no suspendable offense. Now if you wanted to go down the road that they could have been hit with a tech for delay of game or whatever thats different...But then again there is always some player or coach on the fringes of the court so that would require a major crackdown.

They weren't on the fringes of the court. THEY WERE PAST THE 3 POINT LINE trying to get involved in a possible altercation. The situation calmed down for them luckily.

However even with time to review and plenty of video evidence of Spurs players being on the court (and even a few of them appeared to get off the bench during the altercation), they did nothing. Absolutely nothing.

Having 6 players on the court is against the rules so is delay of game. Yet the league let it all go

The officials need a need a new motto like "We enforce rules when we feel like it"

They could do more to clarify things but that doesnt mean the rules are unenforcable. I havn't seen mass suspensions or abuse of the rule. For Amare and Diaw to be 20+ feet from the bench anyone would say thats not the vicinity of the bench so why argue the rule over that?

Diaw wasn't 20 feet away from the bench for starters. With Amare at least have that argument.

However without defining what an altercation is, you can't fairly enforce it. Is a stare down an altercation? Do punches have to be thrown?

Some people including wouldn't consider that incident an altercation. Others would. So how can you punish players for a rule you haven't clearly defined?

Horry should have been thrown off the court before it could escalate but hey at least they have those 3 refs to keep control

As stated before players and coaches are venturing out all the time on the court. If there arn't altercations involved the league doesnt seem to have a big problem with it.

Which just proves that the league doesn't do the smart thing. Thats not a very strong arguement.

If you dont think there was an altercation then why after it happened did the announcers start discussing if Amare and Diaw might be suspended for leaving the bench? Why did D'Antoni and Amare try to come up with a defense after the game and try to excuse leaving the bench? Not only that but why hasn't ANYONE come out publicly and say the Horry incident wasnt an altercation? That doesnt even seem to be up for dispute....its a given except to you.

No actually to a lot of people. If you think I'm the only calling the league for this, you need to get out more often or at least try and read more.

I have a problem with a player committing cheap shots and having his team be rewarded for it. The players left the bench BEFORE the "altercation" ever started but because Horry decides to elbow Bell during an "altercation" after trying to knock out Steve Nash out of frustration, they get punished.

They aren't even given a chance to be pushed back to their seats. They were never involved with the incident, the incident was heightened as a result of their actions, and they were both thrown back to the bench before anything happened. According to Stern, the coaches are supposed to be the ones keeping players on the bench yet since our guys had the "nerve" to make sure that Nash was not injured after Horry's blatant cheapshot. Yet they receive more of a punishment then Davis who elbowed someone in the face.

I just find that moronic. I'm just amazed that you haven't noticed that you are about the only one defending the league for this one. Most of the world prefer common sense and fairness prevail but not the NBA.

 

[Evil Ash]

In the end of ends its easier and smarter for the Suns to change their tactics and learn from the Spurs then to rewrite the NBA rule book and try to change the customs and traditions of the league.

Dont try to change the world...change yourselves.

I'm for the league defining terms in their rules that they want to strictly enforce. I'm also for the league enforcing rules for everybody regardless of player status or team perception.

When Tim Duncan goes over the back, I want it to be called. When Bowen is holding Nash all series long, I want it to be called. Etc

I also want things to be based as well as enforced on the interest of fairness.

If that means a change in "customs and traditions" (seriously where in the hell are getting this crap from? Are you David Stern?) then so be it

 

[pokerface]

Its hard for me to believe the refs handed the Spurs three (going on four) championships. People better start wising up and LEARN from the Spurs and stop making excuses for the Suns and keeping them losers. The NBA isnt going to change a bunch of rules for the Suns. Refs have always allowed more physical games in the playoffs....either adapt or give up on any hopes of rings in our lifetimes. You guys can't even admit Amare made a mistake leaving the bench for crying out loud! How many more suspensions are we going to need to see before we say "Hey thats not cool keep your arse on the bench". Amare messed up our championship...he gave that power to Stern!

You guys arn't going to whine the NBA into giving the Suns a championship....you're just going to get more frustrated.

 

[Ollie]

You know what infuriates me the most with Duncan non-calls?

That's not the occasionaly uncalled hacking or charging. Not even his continual over the back fouls.

But his constant and permanent travelling when posting up, shuffling his feet at least 3 or 4 times per move, drives me crazy.

He was rightfully called for it twice during the 4th quarter of the 4th game and that's all. NEVER called for it before and NEVER after.

 

[boisesuns]

"I never left the bench! And i've never commited a foul in my career!"

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[BC867]

Yup we should've had Burke take out Duncan's knees. The Spurs would just be gullible enough TO WANT TO PROTECT THEIR TEAMMATE (what an unthinkable concept) and be punished for it.

And which team do you think would have been punished for that?

The aggressors on every play, who get away with it . . . or the good guys who try to play out of character one time?

Even if Duncan were injured, the refs would make sure calls for the rest of the series would have benefitted the depleted Spurs.

 

[pokerface]

And which team do you think would have been punished for that?

The aggressors on every play, who get away with it . . . or the good guys who try to play out of character one time?

Even if Duncan were injured, the refs would make sure calls for the rest of the series would have benefitted the depleted Spurs.

Yep and you'll still watch the Suns next year...crooked refs and all.

 

[CardShark]

Yep and you'll still watch the Suns next year...crooked refs and all.

It's not about the Suns. When are you going to get that?

 

[pokerface]

It's not about the Suns. When are you going to get that?

Yeah it is about the Suns because why get into the season next year if the refs are going to "rob" us again. Kinda pointless to ever watch another Suns game...right?

 

[BC867]

Yep and you'll still watch the Suns next year...crooked refs and all.

Yup, and still hope for a Suns Championship, just as I have since 1970.

37 years of fun during the regular season (mostly) and frustration in the post-season.
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What do you say to really hurt a masochist who says, "Hurt me, please hurt me."?

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"No!"

 

[CardShark]

Yeah it is about the Suns because why get into the season next year if the refs are going to "rob" us again. Kinda pointless to ever watch another Suns game...right?

You still don't get it. It's about the league being consistent and balanced with it's rules and officiating. If the Spurs were held to play within the rules, they would've been beaten by the Suns. They are continually being allowed to foul, travel and step onto the court during play without being called for it. Horry should've been suspended for the rest of the playoffs. You say the Suns should learn to play that way. You tell me when the league announced that the rules are different in the post season. Well if the Suns do what the Spurs do, they get called for it. In essence there are two sets of rules, and that's what everyone is so upset about. Why are the Spurs allowedto get away with more? Simply put, Tim Duncan is the biggest superstar in the league right now.

If you are so enamored with the way the Spurs play, then go there and cheer them on. Stop saying the Suns need to morph into the Spurs. If the Suns started playing dirty, I would never watch them again. Right now the Suns are purists of the game. They don't need cheap shots to beat a team straight up.

 

[Mainstreet]

You still don't get it. It's about the league being consistent and balanced with it's rules and officiating. If the Spurs were held to play within the rules, they would've been beaten by the Suns. They are continually being allowed to foul, travel and step onto the court during play without being called for it. Horry should've been suspended for the rest of the playoffs. You say the Suns should learn to play that way. You tell me when the league announced that the rules are different in the post season. Well if the Suns do what the Spurs do, they get called for it. In essence there are two sets of rules, and that's what everyone is so upset about. Why are the Spurs allowedto get away with more? Simply put, Tim Duncan is the biggest superstar in the league right now.

If you are so enamored with the way the Spurs play, then go there and cheer them on. Stop saying the Suns need to morph into the Spurs. If the Suns started playing dirty, I would never watch them again. Right now the Suns are purists of the game. They don't need cheap shots to beat a team straight up.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

everyone, what's done is done.

stern is an arrogant prick.

all this griping doesn't get the suns one iota closer to a championship.

we've all had time to vent.

for your own sakes and sanity, move on.

nothing to see here . . . nothing to see here . . . move along . . .

 

[elindholm]

The problem is that thuggery is going to have the upper hand in the playoffs every year. Every year the league says they're going to change, and every year they don't. The Suns don't need to become goons, but they do need to realize that the officiating will not be "fair" according to what they've become used to during the season.

As fans, we need to realize that too. By the standards that the NBA has in effect, the Spurs' edge last month wasn't a fluke. If the two teams play again, the result will be the same, unless the Suns make dramatic improvements in how they approach the playoffs.

 

[Maligzar]

Horry should've been suspended for the rest of the playoffs.

It's sad to me how Suns fans embarass themselves with lines like these.

How quickly you seem to forget what Raja did to Kobe last year. That move was a lot worse than what Horry did.

How convenient that most of you want to ignore the fact that Raja Bell escalated the altercation in game 4. Not Robert Horry. Horry was heading back to the bench and Raja went after him. Essentially, Raja caused the entire situation to blow up.

Whining about officiating is pathetic. While I will agree that the playoffs were called differently than the regular season, it's an absolute homerific arguement to suggest that the Spurs were "allowed" to get away with more than the Suns. Once again many of you conveniently forget that Duncan had all sorts of fouls trouble the entire series.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It's sad to me how Suns fans embarass themselves with lines like these.

How quickly you seem to forget what Raja did to Kobe last year. That move was a lot worse than what Horry did.

How convenient that most of you want to ignore the fact that Raja Bell escalated the altercation in game 4. Not Robert Horry. Horry was heading back to the bench and Raja went after him. Essentially, Raja caused the entire situation to blow up.

Whining about officiating is pathetic. While I will agree that the playoffs were called differently than the regular season, it's an absolute homerific arguement to suggest that the Spurs were "allowed" to get away with more than the Suns. Once again many of you conveniently forget that Duncan had all sorts of fouls trouble the entire series.

i don't understand. is winning the title this year not enough for you? do you really need us to coddle you too? you need our acceptance? go home.

 

[pokerface]

i don't understand. is winning the title this year not enough for you? do you really need us to coddle you too? you need our acceptance? go home.

Actually he hit the nail right on the head. People gloss over Raja's "thuggery" against Kobe only to act like Horry is the antichrist.


That clothslining of Kobe seemed a lot worse. People will say Raja was just fighting back for the elbows Kobe was giving but two wrongs dont make a right.

 

[RedStorm]

Actually he hit the nail right on the head. People gloss over Raja's "thuggery" against Kobe only to act like Horry is the antichrist.


That clothslining of Kobe seemed a lot worse. People will say Raja was just fighting back for the elbows Kobe was giving but two wrongs dont make a right.

And Raja was suspended....IT IS NOT ABOUT THE INSTIGATOR OF THE WHOLE THING. But, about the league not suspending Duncan/ et el when they went on the floor but did Amare and Diaw.

Amare/Diaw got what they deserved. DUNCAN / et el did not. If you can not get this then please, for God sakes, stop posting.

 

[justAndy]

It's not just Suns fans - people all over the nation called out Stern for his uneven application of the rules.
When I saw that footage of Duncan walking out on the court same game as Amare and Boris did it, it was a slam dunk tha Duncan would be suspended if Amare was.
Surprise - Stern engaged in semantics to excuse Duncan's trangression.
If Stern wants continued lowering of Finals ratings, he won't stress to the refs to call the clutching, hacking and outright cheapshots that Bowen specializes in.
That sliding his foot under a jumpshooter's foot as it's coming down would get his azz beat down bloody on a muni court.
Enjoy your 6-something ratings, NBA.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Actually he hit the nail right on the head. People gloss over Raja's "thuggery" against Kobe only to act like Horry is the antichrist.


That clothslining of Kobe seemed a lot worse. People will say Raja was just fighting back for the elbows Kobe was giving but two wrongs dont make a right.

true, but at least there was reasoning behind it. horry's was just plain thuggery. it's not like anyone on the suns had taken a shot at ANYONE on the spurs, much less at horry. you can at least chalk raja's up to emotion and being fed up, horry's was just a cheap shot without any provocation.

 

[Maligzar]

i don't understand. is winning the title this year not enough for you? do you really need us to coddle you too? you need our acceptance? go home.

I apologize, I should have clarified. I'm a Suns fan, been so since around the Barkley era. That's why I find it embarassing. If I was a Spurs fan I would just laugh, not be embarassed.

true, but at least there was reasoning behind it. horry's was just plain thuggery. it's not like anyone on the suns had taken a shot at ANYONE on the spurs, much less at horry. you can at least chalk raja's up to emotion and being fed up, horry's was just a cheap shot without any provocation.

Horry was frustrated but for different reasons. Horry's foul was hard, it wasn't anything like the attack Raja did on Kobe. Raja floored him, bounced up and started looking around like he wanted to fight. He taunted Phil Jackson on his way back to the Phoenix bench. Horry on the other hand just had a hard foul, and then headed back to his own bench until Raja Bell attacked him.

It's not just Suns fans - people all over the nation called out Stern for his uneven application of the rules.
When I saw that footage of Duncan walking out on the court same game as Amare and Boris did it, it was a slam dunk tha Duncan would be suspended if Amare was.

Yes we're a nation filled with people that don't understand rules. That doesn't mean it was the wrong call. As far as the Duncan on the court crap that the morons on 620 KTAR shoved down this city's throats? PLEASE STOP IT. You know as well as I do that what Duncan did was totally different to what Amare did. Stop lying to yourself.

And Raja was suspended....IT IS NOT ABOUT THE INSTIGATOR OF THE WHOLE THING. But, about the league not suspending Duncan/ et el when they went on the floor but did Amare and Diaw.

Amare/Diaw got what they deserved. DUNCAN / et el did not. If you can not get this then please, for God sakes, stop posting.

Wow... you actually believe this don't you? I'm sorry but you're the dillusional one. First off the rule is about altercations. There was no altercation. Aside from that, Duncan is 7'0 tall. You've been to basketball games, you know how close the bench is to the floor. Duncan didn't go running on the court, he stepped out to look and see if it a teammate was ok. By your application of the rule, we'd be suspending 10th and 12th men across the league all season long.

Compare that to Amare who sprinted toward the altercation far from the vicinity of the bench.

QUESTIONS SUNS FANS WHO FEEL THIS RULING BY STERN WAS UNFAIR:

Stern works for the owners, why didn't any of them suggest a rule change? Stern has come out and said that NOT A SINGLE OWNER yes that's right, not even Sarver requested that this rule be changed. So please, explain that to me.

 

[hsandhu]

Stern is completely losing it... I'm listening to him on Dan Patrick making all kinds of excuses for ratings. Talking about seinfeld, friends, dude truly is a dictator seeing the walls of his empire crash in.

 

[Chaplin]

i don't understand. is winning the title this year not enough for you? do you really need us to coddle you too? you need our acceptance? go home.

I apologize, I should have clarified. I'm a Suns fan, been so since around the Barkley era. That's why I find it embarassing. If I was a Spurs fan I would just laugh, not be embarassed.

true, but at least there was reasoning behind it. horry's was just plain thuggery. it's not like anyone on the suns had taken a shot at ANYONE on the spurs, much less at horry. you can at least chalk raja's up to emotion and being fed up, horry's was just a cheap shot without any provocation.

Horry was frustrated but for different reasons. Horry's foul was hard, it wasn't anything like the attack Raja did on Kobe. Raja floored him, bounced up and started looking around like he wanted to fight. He taunted Phil Jackson on his way back to the Phoenix bench. Horry on the other hand just had a hard foul, and then headed back to his own bench until Raja Bell attacked him.

It's not just Suns fans - people all over the nation called out Stern for his uneven application of the rules.
When I saw that footage of Duncan walking out on the court same game as Amare and Boris did it, it was a slam dunk tha Duncan would be suspended if Amare was.

Yes we're a nation filled with people that don't understand rules. That doesn't mean it was the wrong call. As far as the Duncan on the court crap that the morons on 620 KTAR shoved down this city's throats? PLEASE STOP IT. You know as well as I do that what Duncan did was totally different to what Amare did. Stop lying to yourself.

And Raja was suspended....IT IS NOT ABOUT THE INSTIGATOR OF THE WHOLE THING. But, about the league not suspending Duncan/ et el when they went on the floor but did Amare and Diaw.

Amare/Diaw got what they deserved. DUNCAN / et el did not. If you can not get this then please, for God sakes, stop posting.

Wow... you actually believe this don't you? I'm sorry but you're the dillusional one. First off the rule is about altercations. There was no altercation. Aside from that, Duncan is 7'0 tall. You've been to basketball games, you know how close the bench is to the floor. Duncan didn't go running on the court, he stepped out to look and see if it a teammate was ok. By your application of the rule, we'd be suspending 10th and 12th men across the league all season long.

Compare that to Amare who sprinted toward the altercation far from the vicinity of the bench.

QUESTIONS SUNS FANS WHO FEEL THIS RULING BY STERN WAS UNFAIR:

Stern works for the owners, why didn't any of them suggest a rule change? Stern has come out and said that NOT A SINGLE OWNER yes that's right, not even Sarver requested that this rule be changed. So please, explain that to me.

I know you're new here, but there is a lot of fallacy in this post. Well worded, yes, but full of inaccuracies.

Amare didn't sprint to any altercation--the "altercation" hadn't even occured yet when Amare went charging towards a fallen teammate, EXACTLY LIKE TIM DUNCAN DID.

Nobody is arguing that Amare got up from the bench. He got up from the bench NOT because Raja and Horry were going at it, but because his teammate was on the ground. That EXACT same reasoning is what happened with Duncan. Now, an altercation DID occur, but it was several seconds after Amare and Diaw rose from the bench to check on Nash. That is a documented fact.