15 thoughts - Broncos game

[Gandhi]

And was your team at the time 1-6 and showing historical ineptitude all season?

Well, we don’t have records like that here, but if you are asking how they had played through seven games then yes, they were pathetic. If you are asking how they were halfway through the season then yes, they were embarrassing, only that was after 16 games and not seven.

 

[Gandhi]

Apologies for the “get the F outta here” comment.

But I didn’t call you stupid. I said calling out fans was stupid and I stand by that comment. I have always steadfastly stood behind the concept that a fan should feel free to denigrate the actions of a team they support as they spend money to do so and they are a business. But to denigrate a fellow fan or question their fandom or question the way they want to be a fan is imo stupid.

I think it was Voltaire who said that “I disagree with what you are saying, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” I do disagree with your opinion, but it is almost always interesting to hear the other side of an argument, and thank you for widening my perspective.

By the way, I do not question your fandom, and I did not in any way mean to imply it. I am sorry if I did, and it is important to me to tell you that it was not my intent. I would never do that. You are a fan the way you want to be, just as I am, and both ways are perfectly fair and fine.

 

[Gandhi]

I'm going to give you an example of fan loyalty in the face of an abysmal team on the field:

I'm sure everyone has heard the oft repeated and blown out of proportion story about Eagles fans pelting Santa with snowballs. I'm not going to get into the actual and never reported reasons why this poor fella was dodging snowballs like he was filming a scene from the TV movie The Lottery. What I am going to point out is that this game was the final game of the season, a loss to the Vikings and the Eagles finished the season 2-12 and the previous week won in New Orleans and took themselves out of the OJ Simpson sweepstakes. The game was played after a night of heavy snow(hence the snowballs). It was an overcast and damp day, 28 degrees with a wind chill of 15 degrees. The stands at Franklin Field were never cleaned off so the stands were cold, slushy, and wet. In short, it was a cold, miserable day(which is why the person who was supposed to play Santa for the halftime parade was a no show) and the team tied for the worst record in the NFL and 2nd worst in all of football(Bills finished 1-12-1 in the AFL). The game, however, was a sell out and the crowd wasn't full of Vikings fans.

The moral is, football fandom is like a marriage. You're supposed to stick with your team through better or worse and those of us who have been Cardinal fans for decades understand what worse is. You go to the games even if it's to voice displeasure. But you never turn the stadium over to the opposing fans.

It cannot be said any better, NJ. Thank you for the great write-up!

 

[Gandhi]

Not to pile on here Ghandi, but I think the fans leaving and this looking like a Broncos home game on national television played a role in Bidwill’s (I doubt it was Wilks’) decision to start firing people. It was one of the more embarrassing things to happen to this franchise since moving.

You really think that, Reasonable? Because if you are right (and you could easily be), then firing McCoy seems to me like wanting to appease the public without dealing with the problem, you know? My point is that Michael Bidwill and everyone else know that the people wanted McCoy gone, but everyone also knows that there are multiple issues that can be traced directly back to Steve Keim or Steve Wilks. I guess you have to start somewhere, and it would be kind of strange to start at the top, but I just think that letting McCoy go seems like a small move if Bidwill was that concerned with the fans leaving. Almost as if he wanted the fans to think that Leftwich would magically save the season.

 

[NJCardFan]

You much braver than me.

If I can find it, I'll post a picture of me in my #15 Lomax Jersey with my Cardinals baseball cap with assorted pins on it from 1985 or '86 from my local newspaper.

 

[NJCardFan]

And they’ve grown up with generations of (a) family being fans and (b) good teams. Though the cards have been in az now for almost 3 decades that doesn’t span generations yet.

I should point out that the Cards have been in Arizona for 30 years now and should have a solid fan base built up by now. I would be willing to bet had they chosen Baltimore over AZ that the stands in Baltimore, even at old Memorial Stadium, would be filled with new Cardinal fans.

 

[WildBB]

Fans have the right to be treated to competitive games. They've been short changed because of the offensive ineptitude beyond compare so far. Don't like them offering their tix up online for opponents fans, like is happening though, it's only game 7 of the year. Fans are giving up very early, even if the team does suck. Commentators were like, there's more Denver fans in the stands then Cardinals fans. Where else does that happen??

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Not true in the instance I gave. Eagles were bad for a while after their 1960 championship with an ownership that would make Bill Bidwill look good. It wasn't until Leonard Tose bought the team did they start to turn it around. Incidentally, it was Tose who first threatened to move the Eagles to Phoenix in 1984.

So from 1945- present the eagles gave their fans 41 seasons of .500 or better. That’s 41/72 seasons. 57% of the time.

Since the cards move to AZ they’ve given the fans 10/30 seasons of .500 or better. 33% of the time.

70 years of almost 60% good seasons verses 30 years of 33% good seasons. You’re really comparing these? Cmon.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think it was Voltaire who said that “I disagree with what you are saying, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” I do disagree with your opinion, but it is almost always interesting to hear the other side of an argument, and thank you for widening my perspective.

By the way, I do not question your fandom, and I did not in any way mean to imply it. I am sorry if I did, and it is important to me to tell you that it was not my intent. I would never do that. You are a fan the way you want to be, just as I am, and both ways are perfectly fair and fine.

I agree that we can all be fans differently. That’s why I don’t get down on fair weather fans. That’s just the way they find their interest. I do have a problem if they want to equate their level of fanaticism, but that’s it (and truly, who really cares in the big scheme of things?).

I do find it odd that you criticize fans for leaving but then say you be a fan your way and I’ll be my way. How do you reconcile those two positions?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I should point out that the Cards have been in Arizona for 30 years now and should have a solid fan base built up by now. I would be willing to bet had they chosen Baltimore over AZ that the stands in Baltimore, even at old Memorial Stadium, would be filled with new Cardinal fans.

You again ignore the fact that Baltimore is a static population whereas Arizona is a transplant population and the concept of people having outdoor alternatives verse Baltimore being like most east coast and cold weather climates.

If you havent lives in an Arizona or SoCal you’ll just never understand.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I should point out that the Cards have been in Arizona for 30 years now and should have a solid fan base built up by now. I would be willing to bet had they chosen Baltimore over AZ that the stands in Baltimore, even at old Memorial Stadium, would be filled with new Cardinal fans.

And 30 years doesn’t create generations that hand down traditions.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I should point out that the Cards have been in Arizona for 30 years now and should have a solid fan base built up by now. I would be willing to bet had they chosen Baltimore over AZ that the stands in Baltimore, even at old Memorial Stadium, would be filled with new Cardinal fans.

I should point out that for the first 20 years the Cards were in Arizona they were ATROCIOUS, with only ONE season with a winning record and making the playoffs. If you think any town builds a rabid fan base if their team sucks out loud for twenty straight years from it's inception, you're drinking drano.

 

[NJCardFan]

And 30 years doesn’t create generations that hand down traditions.

30 years is long enough to build a fan base.

 

[NJCardFan]

I should point out that for the first 20 years the Cards were in Arizona they were ATROCIOUS, with only ONE season with a winning record and making the playoffs. If you think any town builds a rabid fan base if their team sucks out loud for twenty straight years from it's inception, you're drinking drano.

I've been a Cardinal fan since 1975 meaning I've been through more lean years than I care to remember. And I'm still a fan. The Saints went 20 years before recording a winning season and the Superdome was always full even when they went 1-15. Nashville isn't exactly a hockey hotbed and they have one of the more loyal and rabid fan bases in the NHL. The Titans have less time in Nashville than the Cards do in AZ and their stadium is filled with Titan fans. And if we're going to use the "the Cards were terrible for years" excuse, over the past 10-11 years the Cards have been one of the more competitive teams in the NFL and the stadium is still filled with the other team's fans. Even in the good years. No excuse for that.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I've been a Cardinal fan since 1975 meaning I've been through more lean years than I care to remember. And I'm still a fan. The Saints went 20 years before recording a winning season and the Superdome was always full even when they went 1-15. Nashville isn't exactly a hockey hotbed and they have one of the more loyal and rabid fan bases in the NHL. The Titans have less time in Nashville than the Cards do in AZ and their stadium is filled with Titan fans. And if we're going to use the "the Cards were terrible for years" excuse, over the past 10-11 years the Cards have been one of the more competitive teams in the NFL and the stadium is still filled with the other team's fans. Even in the good years. No excuse for that.

what's it like to be so angry all the time?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

30 years is long enough to build a fan base.

It has a fanbase. Guess you haven’t been to a game when they’ve been anything but horrid.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Even in the good years. No excuse for that.

Not true. Not even remotely true.

 

[phillycard]

You are much braver than me.

az, you give them too much credit. NJ is right, I've been attending eagles games since the Vet and have had my fair share of confrontations. I will never confuse rabid for idiotic. Most of the so called "great fans" are sloppy drunks who are looking to ef with any one in an opposing jersey. Yes, it's hard to come to come to a game here, but as long as you cheer respectfully and avoid obvious trouble you'll be okay. You just gotta be smart that's all.

 

[oaken1]

I've been a Cardinal fan since 1975 meaning I've been through more lean years than I care to remember. And I'm still a fan. The Saints went 20 years before recording a winning season and the Superdome was always full even when they went 1-15. Nashville isn't exactly a hockey hotbed and they have one of the more loyal and rabid fan bases in the NHL. The Titans have less time in Nashville than the Cards do in AZ and their stadium is filled with Titan fans. And if we're going to use the "the Cards were terrible for years" excuse, over the past 10-11 years the Cards have been one of the more competitive teams in the NFL and the stadium is still filled with the other team's fans. Even in the good years. No excuse for that.

not so on the saints... I remember the announcers always teasing and busting on the saints for empty stadiums... saw several games myself where the "Aints" had entire sections to themselves...the TV camera just could not miss all the paper bags... NO used to play with the entire upper bowl empty... Saints fans didnt get rabid and loyal until after Katrina and Drew Brees.... Bobby Hebert played to empty stands.

just as the phoenix cardinals did.

we were but 20k strong for the longest time.... half of SDS would be empty and we were STILL outnumbered by the opponents fans.

The simple facts are that most of the "cardinal fans" these days are fair weather fans who didnt show up until after UOP...after Denny green and Wis and Warner...after the team started winning....and when the team stops winning they go away...
I always wished the team could operate without their money because honestly I prefer to not have to sit in the stadium next to someone like that... it sickens me a bit to see these folks sell their tickets...especially to opposing fans.... when I am stuck in another state and would give my left nut to be back in my upper corner seats watching my team play live...win or lose

but its the way of arizona sports... they all want to feel like they are part of something when the team is winning. I guess it gives them some form of personal validation to be associated with a winner. But they are still just fair weather fans and times like these show them for what they are.

 

[DeAnna]

The simple facts are that most of the "cardinal fans" these days are fair weather fans who didnt show up until after UOP...after Denny green and Wis and Warner...after the team started winning....and when the team stops winning they go away....

True ... I know quite a few that are snowbirds - with allegiances to other teams. They bought season tix to have something to do during their winters here, and sell the earlier tickets (Aug-Sept) or games they don't want to attend.

Prior to UofP stadium, they had never attended a football game here.

 

[Cardiac]

At this point I'm getting ready to cancel my dtv NFL ticket. I stopped watching the Broncos game in the 2nd qtr, watched something I actually enjoyed and then checked back in to confirm Cards still were sucking.

I use to pride myself in sticking with the team no matter how much they sucked, not this season. I will give them a couple more games but if there is no or little improvement I'm canceling NFL ticket.

I've been a Cards fan for 46 years and the NFL ticket since a year after it's inception but this team has sucked the life out of me.

Btw, enjoy your posts Ghandi.

 

[Gandhi]

I agree that we can all be fans differently. That’s why I don’t get down on fair weather fans. That’s just the way they find their interest. I do have a problem if they want to equate their level of fanaticism, but that’s it (and truly, who really cares in the big scheme of things?).

I do find it odd that you criticize fans for leaving but then say you be a fan your way and I’ll be my way. How do you reconcile those two positions?

The 15 thoughts are mine, and I don’t expect everyone to agree. It’s not up to me to tell others what to do, but I offer my opinion on various topics, and thus it is my preferences and way to do things that will inevitably be the dominant view in some instances. I don’t expect Keim and Wilks to follow all my opinions on the football side of it either, and I have no doubt that they are doing everything they can to fix the situation, but I don’t think that should prevent me from having thoughts on the matters.

 

[WisconsinCard]

Sorry, but you can't compare Eagle fans with Cards fans or in fact with any other fan base. Eagle fans are the most rabid in all sports. I would be afraid to wear an opponents jersey at an Eagle game.

I was in Philly two years ago with my son, we wore our Cards gear and the worse thing that happened was as we walking the stadium some people booed us. And even that was was IMO good natured ribbing. Eagle fans were classy and polite as the proceeded to stomp the living hell out of us.

I think they felt sorry for us for a bit.

 

[WisconsinCard]

We were season ticket holders from 1988 to 1999 and we never left games early not even preseason games. My son and I have traveled to 21 or 22 different stadiums and have witnessed some of the most horrendous trampling's, but we never left early. We took our medicine, not saying others have to feel that way it just our way. Maybe were just masochists? Sometimes I do wonder how I lured my entire family into this mess though. I never encouraged them to be cards fans I just took them to every game and they fell into the trap.

 

[phillycard]

We were season ticket holders from 1988 to 1999 and we never left games early not even preseason games. My son and I have traveled to 21 or 22 different stadiums and have witnessed some of the most horrendous trampling's, but we never left early. We took our medicine, not saying others have to feel that way it just our way. Maybe were just masochists? Sometimes I do wonder how I lured my entire family into this mess though. I never encouraged them to be cards fans I just took them to every game and they fell into the trap.

WC. I think it has to do with the travel! LOL!. If I'm spening hard earned cash to travel to another teams's stadium, best beleive I'm going to take that beating like a man and get full damn value. Even in AZ, I'm hanging around. I
ll be teh first to admit that I have left a few Phillies or Sixers games early though. I can handle only so much.