i hope hart bought them all steak dinners every week all year long for that accomplishmentMuhahahahahahaha 6 sacks thats incredible!! didn't we give up 9 in one game this year?
I know we passed a lot less then but still 6 sacks....brilliant
1975 St. Louis Cardinals Team Highlights
- Thread starter NJCardFan
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you are absolutely right, they had structured the line in such a way as to be set up for a left handed qb, so at least the front office thought leinert was the guy
yes i did! even some of the regular season season games had a bunch of empty seat's, and this was for a team that was coming of a division championship,
i don't think st louis was the greatest football town, although they have supported the ram's (just barely) but you would think that the year after showing some success in the division that the st louis cards would be a hot ticket,
did the bidwills jack the ticket and parking price's sky high after the 74 season or what?
that seems like something these clowns would have done back then
true, they and the hogs are about the only thing i think of when i think about offensive line greatness,
at each lines peak who do you think would be better?
Wasn't the game in LA ?
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NJCardFan
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Um, the playoff game was in L.A.
PACardsFan
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Comparing Hart to DA is beyond ludicrous. Hart may have been streaky, but DA just flat our SUCKS. To be streaky, you have to occasionally show signs of greatness.
PACardsFan
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I beg to differ. Let's compare:
QB: Hart/Warner-edge Warner
RB: Metcalf/James-edge Metcalf
FB: Otis/Smith-edge Otis
WRs: edge 2008
TE: Smith/Patrick-edge to the hall of famer
O-Line: don't even play. The '75 o-line gave up 6 sacks all year.
Defense: slight edge to the '75 team and I do mean slight
The reason the '75 team was better was, for starters, they won 11 games against much tougher competition. Remember, there were only 26 teams back then. And the division was much, much tougher than the west has been over the last 2 seasons. Oh, and I played it out. '75 wins a squeaker 28-23.
I agree with most of your assessments, but the D during the Coryell years was below average. The 2008 D was below average all year, but did come up big during the playoffs. I have to give the 2008 & 2009 Cardinals the edge because of what they did in the playoffs. The 74 Cardinals (10-4) got embarrassed by the Vikings in the 1st round & the 75 Cardinals (11-3) completely layed an egg in the 1st half of the Rams game. The regular season records for the 74 & 75 team were a little inflated because Bakken was clutch & NEVER choked. The reverse can be said of the 2008, 2009 seasons with Rackers here.
BillsCarnage
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Funny how the word "Playoffs" and "Cardinals" always includes "shocked"
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NJCardFan
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You're saying the Cards defense played bad during that playoff game? The Rams scored 3 defensive TD's(2 long INT's and a fumble). The Cards defense gave up 14 points the entire game. The 74 game was tied at the half but a 3rd quarter fumble broke the game open.
conraddobler
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What was amazing about that team was how furious the comebacks were, you could see fear in the other teams eyes, they knew it was comming a lot of times but still couldn't stop them.
Not sure exactly why there were so many comebacks, part of it was a defense that was pretty bad thus we were always behind but that wasn't all it, I think it took time to wear down the other team and fatigue caused a lot of the comebacks.
That offense innovated a lot actually, a lot of the modern passing game can trace it's roots back to guys that ran that one.
Jim Hart had a ridiculously strong arm, he wasn't Elway but he was in that ball park.
Watching the old film is fun, but they look so not big and out of shape, very fun team to watch, it's hard to imagine how the completion percentage was so low yet it seemed to work so well.
Most of it was long strikes down the middle as I recall, like I said my theory is that worked better as the game went along and the defenders got tired.
Jim Otis I know was a beast at just picking up two or three yards at a time, and Metcalf was the change of pace back.
Don't remember if they did a lot of play action or not, but I thought they did.
You always knew Bakken was money too but only from a certain range in, he wasn't long range but he was the last of the straight on kickers too.
Wehrli was my favorite defender for years, ah the memories, curse them all!
They got me stuck on this team :]
Not sure exactly why there were so many comebacks, part of it was a defense that was pretty bad thus we were always behind but that wasn't all it, I think it took time to wear down the other team and fatigue caused a lot of the comebacks.
That offense innovated a lot actually, a lot of the modern passing game can trace it's roots back to guys that ran that one.
Jim Hart had a ridiculously strong arm, he wasn't Elway but he was in that ball park.
Watching the old film is fun, but they look so not big and out of shape, very fun team to watch, it's hard to imagine how the completion percentage was so low yet it seemed to work so well.
Most of it was long strikes down the middle as I recall, like I said my theory is that worked better as the game went along and the defenders got tired.
Jim Otis I know was a beast at just picking up two or three yards at a time, and Metcalf was the change of pace back.
Don't remember if they did a lot of play action or not, but I thought they did.
You always knew Bakken was money too but only from a certain range in, he wasn't long range but he was the last of the straight on kickers too.
Wehrli was my favorite defender for years, ah the memories, curse them all!
They got me stuck on this team :]
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NJCardFan
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And still only scored 14 offensive points. I don't care if their offense had 1,000 total yards, the key is they only scored twice.
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NJCardFan
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Rams scoring in the '75 playoff game because some don't seem to understand:
1st Rams Ron Jaworski 5 yard rush (Tom Dempsey kick)
Rams Jack Youngblood 47 yard interception return (Tom Dempsey kick)
2nd Rams Bill Simpson 65 yard interception return (Tom Dempsey kick)
Rams Harold Jackson 66 yard pass from Ron Jaworski (Tom Dempsey kick)
4th Rams Ron Jessie 2 yard fumble return (Tom Dempsey kick)
Final score: Cards 23 Rams 35
Take away those defensive scores and we have a 23-14 Cardinal victory. Defense didn't lose that game.
1st Rams Ron Jaworski 5 yard rush (Tom Dempsey kick)
Rams Jack Youngblood 47 yard interception return (Tom Dempsey kick)
2nd Rams Bill Simpson 65 yard interception return (Tom Dempsey kick)
Rams Harold Jackson 66 yard pass from Ron Jaworski (Tom Dempsey kick)
4th Rams Ron Jessie 2 yard fumble return (Tom Dempsey kick)
Final score: Cards 23 Rams 35
Take away those defensive scores and we have a 23-14 Cardinal victory. Defense didn't lose that game.
Super Bowl Appearence: Edge 2008 teamI beg to differ. Let's compare:
QB: Hart/Warner-edge Warner
RB: Metcalf/James-edge Metcalf
FB: Otis/Smith-edge Otis
WRs: edge 2008
TE: Smith/Patrick-edge to the hall of famer
O-Line: don't even play. The '75 o-line gave up 6 sacks all year.
Defense: slight edge to the '75 team and I do mean slight
The reason the '75 team was better was, for starters, they won 11 games against much tougher competition. Remember, there were only 26 teams back then. And the division was much, much tougher than the west has been over the last 2 seasons. Oh, and I played it out. '75 wins a squeaker 28-23.
2008 wins..
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NJCardFan
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I looked up some of the stats:
1975: 8 sacks (less than Cutler's 1st HALF against the Giants!)
rush: 172 ypg, 182 pass ypg, 354 total
1976: 17 sacks (still very good)
rush: 164 ypg, pass 203 ypg, 367 total
record (1975-1976): 21-7 (.750)
I was surprised to see how good the rushing attack was, the individual stats seemed modest, that's because they spread the ball around to a lot of people. Hart was good, but not great, but that's all you needed. Defense average to below average (11th points, 18th yards out of 26)
A good offensive line = balanced attack, good ground game, QB doesnt get beat to a pulp, fewer 3rd and longs, ability to run out clock, and most importantly wins!
And about winning without a good ground game, Manning can get away with it a lot of the time, but most cannot.
1975: 8 sacks (less than Cutler's 1st HALF against the Giants!)
rush: 172 ypg, 182 pass ypg, 354 total
1976: 17 sacks (still very good)
rush: 164 ypg, pass 203 ypg, 367 total
record (1975-1976): 21-7 (.750)
I was surprised to see how good the rushing attack was, the individual stats seemed modest, that's because they spread the ball around to a lot of people. Hart was good, but not great, but that's all you needed. Defense average to below average (11th points, 18th yards out of 26)
A good offensive line = balanced attack, good ground game, QB doesnt get beat to a pulp, fewer 3rd and longs, ability to run out clock, and most importantly wins!
And about winning without a good ground game, Manning can get away with it a lot of the time, but most cannot.
It's been THIRTY-FIVE YEARS and this organization has STILL not learned how to be this good again!
I'm sure that like me, many of you are not football geniuses and yet most of you figured it out with just the viewing of this one old video.
I just want to grab any Cardinal decision maker and scream repeatedly in their face: IT'S THE OFFENSIVE LINE YOU MOTHER F@#$ERS!!!
Even the old voice of the video got it right when he stated that, "the [Cards] line ESCORTED a ground attack..." Escorted: A group of persons...accompanying another...for protection or guidance on a journey. An armed guard. As a body of soldiers. Does that definition sound like any Cardinals o-line that has followed that early 70's line?
Only six sacks allowed! Imagine if K. Warner was only sacked six times a season. I bet they would have won that SB and Warner would still be playing.
The only way to overcome a miserable o-line in the NFL is to have a Hall o Fame QB...and since that RARELY happens, a la Warner, I have to scream this one moretime: PLEASE CARDINALS, FIX THE OFFENSIVE LINE!!!!!!
Have to disagree there, McCutcheon ran it down the Cards throats, 37 times for 5.5 yard average, they had a big lead and no need to produce a lot more offensive points, they had the ground game that couldnt be stopped and made it harder for the Cards to come back. Defense that year was average at best. (see stats in above post)
Seeing those old hip pads on Hart is funny, it's a wonder how he could even move.
edit to add: I think I turned blue waiting for the refs to make the touchdown call against Skins. I held my breath the whole time.
.
dylanbw
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Thanks for posting this link....
This line about Metcalf was funny. I was just a few years away from actively following the Cards, but Hart and Gray were still going when I started rooting for the Cards (from NJ!)...Metcalf not so much. Jim Otis and Metcalf were pretty bad ass in this video. Some crazy hair styles and facial hair. Interesting to see Namath, OJ Simpson, Too Tall Jones, and Thiesman, et al.
Yeah, our kingdom for a good o-line. Maybe one of these years.
Great find on that video, keep em coming....
This line about Metcalf was funny. I was just a few years away from actively following the Cards, but Hart and Gray were still going when I started rooting for the Cards (from NJ!)...Metcalf not so much. Jim Otis and Metcalf were pretty bad ass in this video. Some crazy hair styles and facial hair. Interesting to see Namath, OJ Simpson, Too Tall Jones, and Thiesman, et al.
Yeah, our kingdom for a good o-line. Maybe one of these years.
Great find on that video, keep em coming....
conraddobler
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Yep, immediately recognized it when I saw it, to this day I still think we got lucky on that call for once but I think the rules were different on that and it's the fact the defender knocked the ball out that it was ruled in our favor.
At the time it was the first equivalent of a replay, don't ever remember one call taking that long, would love to know how the meeting of refs went.
conraddobler
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I watched all the old footage, finally got that it was in fact a link way back on the first page of actual highlights.
Thanks!
Made my night last night, very cool to see them again, Metcalf was Barry Sanders before Barry Sanders.
Thanks!
Made my night last night, very cool to see them again, Metcalf was Barry Sanders before Barry Sanders.
PACardsFan
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You're delirious if you think that the 75 Cards D was anything other than average. Most of the time it was below average. The Rams jumped out to a huge early lead & then just ran the ball down our throats. When we needed a stop to get back in the game, we couldn't get it. That has ALWAYS been the case with any Cardinals D that I have watched. And I've been following this franchise since the early 60's. The '08 D was bad at times also, but it had the ABILITY to create turnovers that the 75 D did not. We would NOT have been in the SB if not for the D. Probably wouldn't have beaten the Falcons, if DD doesn't cause the fumble that Rolle returns for a td. The 5 picks against the Panthers on the road was something the 75 D could NEVER count on.
Don't get me wrong, I loved the Coryell years!!!! But I knew that if our offense had an average day, we were in trouble.
conraddobler
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Yep, our D could have moments back then but never ever did you really count on it for anything.
Most of the moments were in the secondary as I recall, Wehrli was good and a few others had good games but otherwise we were absolutely below average on D back then IMO.
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