2004 draft/possible trades

[frdbtr]

I still feel that Marbury, Marion and Amare can average 20/10's (Marion/Amare for Pts and rebounds and Marbury for Pts and assists) each and that would make a powerful front line for any team to contend with. One of the problems that the Suns have had in the past was they gave up on young players too soon and traded them for Veterans that weren't as good as the young players developed into (ie finley). I would like to see the Suns stick with this core and see what develops. I think that D'Antoni is a good coach and I would like to see what he can do with a full roster.

 

[George O'Brien]

Garnett is making $27 million this year. His contract for future years is similar to that of Marbury, but Stephon could easily be the second best point guard in the NBA including Payton. Marbury's contract is similar to that of Kidd.

Contracts are generally a function of what a team thinks the market is for a player. Teams that over value their players like Layton did in New York get killed. Teams that refuse to pay market price for their players, like the Clippers have historically, lost their players.

Star players whose contracts are expiring drive teams crazy. It only takes one crazy GM to offer a huge amount for a player and the former teams gets nothing. The Nets without Kidd would be lucky to make the playoffs. The Suns without Marbury would contend for the #1 pick in the draft.

If you let a player go, then the question is whether that player can be replaced in the free agent market THAT YEAR. The sad part is that in order to get enough cap space to go after a star, most teams end up being so weak that top players don't want to play fo them.

I'm inclined to give Brian C the benefit of the doubt. I would prefer that he did not gamble so much on two players, but I am also sure the Suns would be even worse off if they left.

 

[scotsman13]

Originally posted by elindholm
No one, including Garnett, can win a championship alone and His contract makes it impossible for them to win with him.


I'd say that Minnesota is in much better shape than Phoenix right now, and a large part of that is because Garnett agreed to a reasonable extension -- something the Suns, apparently, never gave either Marion or Marbury the chance to do, preferring instead to overpay them at the first available opportunity.

sorry elindholm, i wouldnt trade places with the puppys for anything. the puppies may have a better year this year but in the long run the suns have a better basis for succuss then the puppies.

marbury's contract was signed before he ever came to the suns and it is the standard for a top flight player. marbury is one (most people would say that he is the second best point in the nba right now).

marion is a great player who has earned his max contract by being a great person and a 20 and 10 player at the small forward spot. there is no other small forward in the nba that averages anywhere near what he does in rebounds blocks and steals. so what if he isnt drawing lots of fouls (yes it would be nice, if he did) he bring so much more to the table then just points. being you would be happy with a rasheed wallace but i wouldnt trade marion for wallace and a first rounds. and i would never give up marion and marbury for garrnet.

also who fault is it that garrnett got the contract that changed the face of the nba? it was garrnet saying you pay me this much or i am going somewhere else. so yes i can hold him to the fact that he broke his team and that he has never gone past the first round of the playoffs.

 

[elindholm]

scotsman13:

marbury's contract was signed before he ever came to the suns and it is the standard for a top flight player.

I'm referring to his gaudy extension, which he signed this summer after having been with the Suns for two years.

marion is a great player who has earned his max contract by being a great person and a 20 and 10 player at the small forward spot.

Unfortunately, overpaying players for being "great people" is not the way you build a champion.

so yes i can hold him to the fact that he broke his team and that he has never gone past the first round of the playoffs.

Yes, you can. But both he and his ball club have learned from their previous mistake. Garnett took a (relatively) modest extension, and starting next season, the Wolves will benefit.

George O'Brien:

If you let a player go, then the question is whether that player can be replaced in the free agent market THAT YEAR.

The Suns overpaid Marbury and Marion long before they had any chance of leaving through free agency.

I would prefer that he did not gamble so much on two players, but I am also sure the Suns would be even worse off if they left.

There's an enormous middle ground that you are overlooking.

The Suns could have waited another year for Marion to be a restricted free agent, then matched whatever the going rate was. The Clippers did that with Brand and Maggette, and so far it seems to have worked out just fine.

With Marbury, due to CBA rules, no team in the league could have offered him as much as the Suns did -- not even a team under the cap. They could have offered him an extension more in line with what another team could theoretically pay.

 

[George O'Brien]

I am not convinced the Wolves are any closer to being a championship team than they were before. Sprewell and Cassell are not going to get any better, Wally is overpaid for being role player, the Candy Man is not better than he was with the Clips, Ervin Johnson is a career journeyman, and Oliver Miller is getting minutes!

 

[scotsman13]

Originally posted by elindholm
marion is a great player who has earned his max contract by being a great person and a 20 and 10 player at the small forward spot.

Unfortunately, overpaying players for being "great people" is not the way you build a champion.

yea look at portland, see where buying the best players (not people) that they could got them. portland has earn the name jailblazers because they didnt care for the type of people they were bring in. they paid for this by having a team that every year sends some of their players to court on charges of drugs, or having a player suppended for going after a fan or even having one player hurt another player because they thought it would be funny. do me a favor elindholm name the last team that won a champainship with players who were not up standing people in their own right? (kobe doesnt count because he hasnt be conviced yet, but before this problem even the kobe had never had any problems with the law).

If you let a player go, then the question is whether that player can be replaced in the free agent market THAT YEAR.

The Suns overpaid Marbury and Marion long before they had any chance of leaving through free agency.

With Marbury, due to CBA rules, no team in the league could have offered him as much as the Suns did -- not even a team under the cap. They could have offered him an extension more in line with what another team could theoretically pay.

yea the suns didnt want a repeat of mcdyce. the suns could have given him all the money that the CBA would let them. more then any other team but he still went back to denver. the suns learned their lesson then and have gotten their players resigned as soon as their market value was set.

 

[elindholm]

yea look at portland, see where buying the best players (not people) that they could got them.

Is the Suns' goal to be better than the Blazers, or to win a championship?

do me a favor elindholm name the last team that won a champainship with players who were not up standing people in their own right?

The 1998 Bulls. Jordan is a compulsive gambler (and probably a womanizer), and I assume that Rodman needs no explanation.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by elindholm
yea look at portland, see where buying the best players (not people) that they could got them.

Is the Suns' goal to be better than the Blazers, or to win a championship?

do me a favor elindholm name the last team that won a champainship with players who were not up standing people in their own right?

The 1998 Bulls. Jordan is a compulsive gambler (and probably a womanizer), and I assume that Rodman needs no explanation.

I'm not sure the Blazers ever had the best players. Wallace is not only an off the court problem, but he is also very inconsistent as a player. Davis was over the hill when they got him. The overall team chemistry has been erratic.

Whatever else might be said about the Bulls, their on the floor chemistry was very good. At the same time, the "Jordan Effect" seemed to let guys like Longley get away with murder and made the team very good on defense. (When he came to the Suns, Longley found that the same stuff was called as fouls).

Rodman may have been a total jerk, but he never committed crimes and he always produced on court until his last year or so.

 

[Joe Mama]

Kevin Garnett may have never made it out of the first round of playoffs, but neither have Marbury or Marion. I also think that while KG's contract has made it difficult for the T-wolves to sign free agents for several years the bigger problem was Terrll Brandon's injuries. When Brandon was healthy Minnesota was one of the best teams in the NBA.

Joe Mama

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Technically Marion made is out of the first round a couple years ago in the SA series. Although he wasn't nearly as big a part of the team as he is now.


frdbtr said,

One of the problems that the Suns have had in the past was they gave up on young players too soon and traded them for Veterans that weren't as good as the young players developed into (ie finley).

Excuse me if I am wrong, but Finley was included in the package that landed Jason Kidd. In fact, he was a necessity for the suns to land him I though, the Mavs wouldn't deal unless he was included.

I think everyone would still take Kidd over Finley. Same thing for Marbury over Finley.

Other bright prospects we let go early.

Nash. However this landed us Shawn Marion. Especially since we had Kidd already, this was a great move.

Garrity. It got us Hardaway. Woohoo. Not a big loss, but not the best gain either.

I dont think there are any other young players we gave away. In fact, I think the suns are one of the best at keeping their young talent, unless it lands them something better in return.

Is there a move where the suns gave up a prospect and loss out in the short, or the long run??

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
Technically Marion made is out of the first round a couple years ago in the SA series. Although he wasn't nearly as big a part of the team as he is now.


frdbtr said,



Excuse me if I am wrong, but Finley was included in the package that landed Jason Kidd. In fact, he was a necessity for the suns to land him I though, the Mavs wouldn't deal unless he was included.

I think everyone would still take Kidd over Finley. Same thing for Marbury over Finley.

Other bright prospects we let go early.

Nash. However this landed us Shawn Marion. Especially since we had Kidd already, this was a great move.

Garrity. It got us Hardaway. Woohoo. Not a big loss, but not the best gain either.

I dont think there are any other young players we gave away. In fact, I think the suns are one of the best at keeping their young talent, unless it lands them something better in return.

Is there a move where the suns gave up a prospect and loss out in the short, or the long run??

one can try and argue Jayson Williams - but that goes back a long ways and it took him a long time to get his head on straight before he decided to become an ass again and flip a loaded shotgun around.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr

Is there a move where the suns gave up a prospect and loss out in the short, or the long run??

The Suns did not work hard enough to re-sign Sam Cassell, although this was not a trade issue.

 

[elindholm]

Steve Kerr.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by elindholm
Steve Kerr.

The Suns management hope that Casey will become a Steve Kerr kind of player. I think he has a long way to go, but I know they are high on his potential.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Originally posted by George O'Brien

Rodman may have been a total jerk, but he never committed crimes and he always produced on court until his last year or so.

um, i live in newport beach and dennis is routinely busted for stuff, fined or ticketed for his behavior, or has his club shut down.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
The Suns did not work hard enough to re-sign Sam Cassell, although this was not a trade issue.

actually, sam casselll was part of the package that went for kidd.

it was (if memory serves):

finley
cassell
someone else

for

kidd
meyer
dumas (not richard, the other dumas)

 

[PhxGametime]

AC Green was the other player in trade I believe...