2005 QB poll

[MaoTosiFanClub]

The other... the more literal - is simply to recognize that he's been consistent in his appraisal... and continues to see McCown as part of the team's future.

You're right that Green has been consistent in saying all the right things about McCown, but his actions speak louder than his words.

Exhibit A: Notice shortly after he proclaimed McCown the next Favre last offseason Green signed a free agent QB he has always liked to a multi-year deal and the drafted another QB.

Exhibit B: After his first benching in Carolina, Green said the quote I mentioned above about Josh being a good QB. Green then ran King out there another week. He then named Navarre the starter and stuck with Navarre through the Detroit game even when he was clearly hurt while a perfectly healthy McCown held a clipboard.

Exhibit C: Green speaks to NFL Total Access and says he has confidence in Josh and that as of "right now," he's our starter. As this is being said, Green and the Cardinals are being linked to multiple free agent QBs by many different publications.

Conclusion: What Green says to the media is not always true. This is not on only relegated to QB matters (we saw it with the 1200 yard Marel Shipp prediction and Kendall's spot in the starting lineup) but to the team as a whole. Does anyone really think Graves and Green, who have already begun the process of overhauling an offense that cost them a trip to the playoffs, are going to stop short of a change at the QB position when everybody from coaches, offensive lineman, and RBs have been sent packing?

 

[Russ Smith]

Conclusion: What Green says to the media is not always true. This is not on only relegated to QB matters (we saw it with the 1200 yard Marel Shipp prediction and Kendall's spot in the starting lineup) but to the team as a whole. Does anyone really think Graves and Green, who have already begun the process of overhauling an offense that cost them a trip to the playoffs, are going to stop short of a change at the QB position when everybody from coaches, offensive lineman, and RBs have been sent packing?

along these same lines, in John Clayton's pre combine column today he mentions the following. Says Rodgers may go #1, he and Smith are still maneuvering, and says neither is expected to work out at the combine instead saving it for their schools pro days and for "private workouts for the 49ers, Browns, Dolphins and Cardinals."

Note, he named only 4 teams and 3 of them have the top 3 picks. So I would suspect what Clayton is saying is the Cardinals are one of the teams who WOULD consider Rodgers or Smith if one of them is on the board at 8.

 

[john h]

along these same lines, in John Clayton's pre combine column today he mentions the following. Says Rodgers may go #1, he and Smith are still maneuvering, and says neither is expected to work out at the combine instead saving it for their schools pro days and for "private workouts for the 49ers, Browns, Dolphins and Cardinals."

Note, he named only 4 teams and 3 of them have the top 3 picks. So I would suspect what Clayton is saying is the Cardinals are one of the teams who WOULD consider Rodgers or Smith if one of them is on the board at 8.

I could easily see DG going for a QB as he is unpredictable. Forget what he says watch what he does.

 

[john h]

Yeah...and.....of course I want him to play all the games John....but I only need 8 starts to win the bet. If Josh isn't benched then it means we are winning and he is making the Bashers go away....and if not then I lose the bet and we get a guy that can get it done. I as always think Josh can get it done. And so does the coach that is such a mystery to you.

I am not for him being the starter but if he is I hope he proves me totally wrong and I eat crow. All I want is a good team and as to who leads this team matters less than results.

 

[clif]

along these same lines, in John Clayton's pre combine column today he mentions the following. Says Rodgers may go #1, he and Smith are still maneuvering, and says neither is expected to work out at the combine instead saving it for their schools pro days and for "private workouts for the 49ers, Browns, Dolphins and Cardinals."

Note, he named only 4 teams and 3 of them have the top 3 picks. So I would suspect what Clayton is saying is the Cardinals are one of the teams who WOULD consider Rodgers or Smith if one of them is on the board at 8.

I just dont see the cards taking a QB with their top pick after spending a pick last year on a Qb and you already have a 26 year old going into his 4th year.

Let me make this clear. I like Josh and I think he will be the starter in 2005. I predict he will make marked improvement and this team will be in the playoff race.

Now if the team decides to bring in competition either through the draft or FA then so be it. If Josh loses out to someone after a CLEAR competition, then I would have no problems with that whatsoever.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

You're right that Green has been consistent in saying all the right things about McCown, but his actions speak louder than his words.

Exhibit A: Notice shortly after he proclaimed McCown the next Favre last offseason Green signed a free agent QB he has always liked to a multi-year deal and the drafted another QB.

Exhibit B: After his first benching in Carolina, Green said the quote I mentioned above about Josh being a good QB. Green then ran King out there another week. He then named Navarre the starter and stuck with Navarre through the Detroit game even when he was clearly hurt while a perfectly healthy McCown held a clipboard.

Exhibit C: Green speaks to NFL Total Access and says he has confidence in Josh and that as of "right now," he's our starter. As this is being said, Green and the Cardinals are being linked to multiple free agent QBs by many different publications.

Conclusion: What Green says to the media is not always true. This is not on only relegated to QB matters (we saw it with the 1200 yard Marel Shipp prediction and Kendall's spot in the starting lineup) but to the team as a whole. Does anyone really think Graves and Green, who have already begun the process of overhauling an offense that cost them a trip to the playoffs, are going to stop short of a change at the QB position when everybody from coaches, offensive lineman, and RBs have been sent packing?

Re: Exhibit A: How many QBs did we have under contract prior to the signing of a Vet QB and a late round draft?

(Would Green have had to go into the season with just McCown to convince you that he he believed in him?)

Exhibit B: Are you suggesting that Green knowingly played a QB who was injured? Where's the proof?

Exhibit C: I hardly find speculation in a variety of print as convincing. .

In conclusion: It's hardly a "slam" on Josh, or an untruth - if Green brings in a QB (superior to the present 2nd and third string) to push Josh for the job.

 

[Russ Smith]

Re: Exhibit A: How many QBs did we have under contract prior to the signing of a Vet QB and a late round draft?

(Would Green have had to go into the season with just McCown to convince you that he he believed in him?)

Exhibit B: Are you suggesting that Green knowingly played a QB who was injured? Where's the proof?

Exhibit C: I hardly find speculation in a variety of print as convincing. .

In conclusion: It's hardly a "slam" on Josh, or an untruth - if Green brings in a QB (superior to the present 2nd and third string) to push Josh for the job.

B after the game Green said Navarre had hurt his thumb and it wasn't a big deal or something like that. So he didn't know at the time it was broken, but he knew it was bothering him.

So you're both right, he knew he was hurt, but didn't know how badly.

 

[Rats]

along these same lines, in John Clayton's pre combine column today he mentions the following. Says Rodgers may go #1, he and Smith are still maneuvering, and says neither is expected to work out at the combine instead saving it for their schools pro days and for "private workouts for the 49ers, Browns, Dolphins and Cardinals."

Note, he named only 4 teams and 3 of them have the top 3 picks. So I would suspect what Clayton is saying is the Cardinals are one of the teams who WOULD consider Rodgers or Smith if one of them is on the board at 8.

Oh....so now we understand Russ. You think they will start one of the Qb if they draft them? I do not see how this pertains to Joshs status this coming season. I would love to have Alex Smith if DG wants him. But not as a starter for this coming season....we have already discussed all of these scenarios.

 

[Rats]

I just dont see the cards taking a QB with their top pick after spending a pick last year on a Qb and you already have a 26 year old going into his 4th year.

Let me make this clear. I like Josh and I think he will be the starter in 2005. I predict he will make marked improvement and this team will be in the playoff race.

Now if the team decides to bring in competition either through the draft or FA then so be it. If Josh loses out to someone after a CLEAR competition, then I would have no problems with that whatsoever.

Thanks Cliff, you say it much better than I do. I agree 100%

 

[Russ Smith]

Oh....so now we understand Russ. You think they will start one of the Qb if they draft them? I do not see how this pertains to Joshs status this coming season. I would love to have Alex Smith if DG wants him. But not as a starter for this coming season....we have already discussed all of these scenarios.

2 people were discussing whether Green is being honest when he says he's still high on Josh or not. So I was pointing out that Clayton apparently feels we're interested enough in QB's that we're one of 4 teams who will attend their workouts for sure.

Last year Green came right out and said we're not picking a QB #1, this year Clayton thinks we might and Green has made no such statement yet.

And yes I do think if Green took a QB in round 1 there's a good chance he'd end up starting ahead of Josh at some point. Why? Because a QB we took in round 7 wound up starting ahead of Josh this year and might have continued to do so if he hadn't broken his thumb.

Wasn't a bash of Josh, just that it's blatantly obvious why the first 3 teams would be at workouts for Rodgers and Smith, they all need QB's and have the first 3 picks, but it's more telling that us with the 8th pick would go.

I don't think either guy will be there I'm still of the opinion SF will take Rodgers unless he's under 6 feet, then they'll take Smith. I think both will be gone by pick 4 unless Rodgers is short and Smiths' arm fails the private workouts in which case they'll both slide quite a bit.

 

[Russ Smith]

Thanks Cliff, you say it much better than I do. I agree 100%

I agree with everything CLif wrote save one thing. Dennis Green has NEVER gone into a season with the same 3 QB's he had the prior year, not once. So it's very unlikely he will this year given the QB play in 2004 was far below what he was used to in Minnesota. I think it's a given King is gone. But I also think it's entirely possible that even if we sign a veteran, if Rodgers or Smith is there at 8 and we liked their workouts, we'll pick one. I just don't expect either to be there.

I "think" Clif's point was Green wouldn't go into the year without a veteran QB, and I agree, but that doesn't mean he won't replace one of Josh or Navarre with a rookie if he thinks the rookie is a better prospect.

 

[Russ Smith]

So as I write this 69 people are voting for a QB other than Josh, and 31 for Josh. But Josh has the most votes of any single QB.

That's the problem I have with such polls, what are people saying, most of us want Josh as the starter, or most of want someone else as the starter, we just don't agree on who?

 

[clif]

So as I write this 69 people are voting for a QB other than Josh, and 31 for Josh. But Josh has the most votes of any single QB.

That's the problem I have with such polls, what are people saying, most of us want Josh as the starter, or most of want someone else as the starter, we just don't agree on who?

Most people want someone they can put all their faith in. We all pretty much have different opinions of who that person is.

I think the pole suggests that alot of people just aren't sold on Josh. That can certainly change, but some have already made up their minds one way or the other.

 

[Pariah]

I think the pole suggests that alot of people just aren't sold on Josh. That can certainly change, but some have already made up their minds one way or the other.

I think it's more accurate to say that some people have made up their minds that Josh is a good QB waiting to happen. Others would love it if he were to become a good QB, but right now he isn't.

 

[john h]

So as I write this 69 people are voting for a QB other than Josh, and 31 for Josh. But Josh has the most votes of any single QB.

That's the problem I have with such polls, what are people saying, most of us want Josh as the starter, or most of want someone else as the starter, we just don't agree on who?

With DG I have no idea what he is thinking when it comes to the QB. We all know that King had a horrible one game last year but that does not mean that DG is not going to keep him. In all fairness to King I do not think you can say how good or bad he is based on one game. Guess we will see very soon when he makes his cuts. We really do not have a lot of good options at QB in the FA market unless there was some trade to be made. I am not ruling out taking a QB in the draft if DG and Graves do not think one of our present QB's is going to be one who can grow into an NFL quality QB. You got to have someone on your roster you can grow as your rarely find one in FA who can do the job long term. McCown has not proved anything yet. Navarre had only one half before he was injured so our QB slot remains a mystery.

 

[john h]

I think it's more accurate to say that some people have made up their minds that Josh is a good QB waiting to happen. Others would love it if he were to become a good QB, but right now he isn't.

I think you sort of nailed it Clif. I certainly would like for Josh to be the next comming of Joe Montana but so far he is not. Some seem to think that those who do not like Josh's performance have something personal against him. Not at all the case. He may be a great young man. We are just questioning his ability as our future QB. My life would be a lot more fun if he does turn out to be a good or better yet a great QB. Based on what I saw I just have my doubts and think we need to have Plan B in place and not spend 6 years on Josh like we did on Jake and now have 8-9 years invested in QB's that have taken us nowhere. What do we have to show at the QB positon after 8 years and 8 drafts?

 

[clif]

I think you sort of nailed it Clif. I certainly would like for Josh to be the next comming of Joe Montana but so far he is not. Some seem to think that those who do not like Josh's performance have something personal against him. Not at all the case. He may be a great young man. We are just questioning his ability as our future QB. My life would be a lot more fun if he does turn out to be a good or better yet a great QB. Based on what I saw I just have my doubts and think we need to have Plan B in place and not spend 6 years on Josh like we did on Jake and now have 8-9 years invested in QB's that have taken us nowhere. What do we have to show at the QB positon after 8 years and 8 drafts?

I dont want it to take 6 years either. but last year was josh first real shot. strike 1

 

[Rats]

And yes I do think if Green took a QB in round 1 there's a good chance he'd end up starting ahead of Josh at some point. Why? Because a QB we took in round 7 wound up starting ahead of Josh this year and might have continued to do so if he hadn't broken his thumb.

At some point? Or some point this season? The only way it would happen is if the team is losing. Last season the team that was on the field was a work in progress. This years teams will be farther along in the progress with better Oline, better RB, healthy Wr( which I am not convinced they were last season). This will be a fairer season to Judge Josh on because of his understanding of the Offense and the upgrade of things that need to be fixed around him. It was no wonder that Josh was benched last season for John and King( who both did worse than Josh) because of the circumstances that this team was left in personel wise by the previous staff. DG identified the talent to build on, cut the dead wood, and is now going to add to it. I do not see a repeat of last year with the Qb carosel because of the changed circumstance. The only way there is a change is if the Offense is not getting the job done and Josh is turning the ball over. But if the Line is doing there Job this should be diminished and if the Rb is getting yards everyone will be looking better. Unless we are haveing another losing season I do not see a Drafted Qb hitting the field next season. This last season I could see it because the team was undermanned and our Qb got killed regularly. IF this does not get fixed it will not matter who is under center.

 

[Russ Smith]

And yes I do think if Green took a QB in round 1 there's a good chance he'd end up starting ahead of Josh at some point. Why? Because a QB we took in round 7 wound up starting ahead of Josh this year and might have continued to do so if he hadn't broken his thumb.

At some point? Or some point this season? The only way it would happen is if the team is losing. Last season the team that was on the field was a work in progress. This years teams will be farther along in the progress with better Oline, better RB, healthy Wr( which I am not convinced they were last season). This will be a fairer season to Judge Josh on because of his understanding of the Offense and the upgrade of things that need to be fixed around him. It was no wonder that Josh was benched last season for John and King( who both did worse than Josh) because of the circumstances that this team was left in personel wise by the previous staff. DG identified the talent to build on, cut the dead wood, and is now going to add to it. I do not see a repeat of last year with the Qb carosel because of the changed circumstance. The only way there is a change is if the Offense is not getting the job done and Josh is turning the ball over. But if the Line is doing there Job this should be diminished and if the Rb is getting yards everyone will be looking better. Unless we are haveing another losing season I do not see a Drafted Qb hitting the field next season. This last season I could see it because the team was undermanned and our Qb got killed regularly. IF this does not get fixed it will not matter who is under center.

Some point this season. Green replaced him this year on a win streak because he felt QB play needed to improve.

now if we're 8-2 yeah no way Green replaces Josh with a rookie I just don't think we're good enough to be 8-2 just on our defense and our running game. So the only way we have that kind of record is if Josh plays dramatically better, and if he does, there's no point discussing a replacement.

I also think the 2 rookie QB's most discussed are vastly different. Smith played in a system very atypical of NFL offenses, his own coach said he's not ready, and that he has to COMPLETELY understand the offense before he's any good. So Smith is going to have a much bigger learning curve than Rodgers who contrary to some didn't play in a "gimmick" system he played in a pro set with a TE, 2 WR's, a RB and FB, or 3 Wr's an no FB. Cal runs a very typical pro offense.

All of Rodgers' adjustments will be jump up in talent from college to pro, Smith has to do that, AND adjust to a totally new system to him. If I'm not mistaken Smith ran a veer or something similar in HS.

So if we took Smith I believe Josh would be the starter probalby all year, if we took Rodgers I think Aaron would be starting by midseason unless Josh improves immensely.

And if he does that's great then we have 2 good young QB's and have one for trade bait.

But again I don't see either guy being on the board for us unless they do poorly at the workouts in which case we won't pick them either.