2006 World Cup

Stout

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Renz said:
Italy's defense will be the difference. Italy wins.

I hope not. I just HATE Italy's flopping style. I mean, they could win some Olympic medals in the pool. Granted, they played a relatively clean match diving-wise against Germany, and granted Australia didn't deserve to win because of lack of aggressiveness, but Australia got JOBBED by that flopping Italian at the end of regulation. After that, I could never, ever root for this team.
 

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Stout said:
I hope not. I just HATE Italy's flopping style. I mean, they could win some Olympic medals in the pool. Granted, they played a relatively clean match diving-wise against Germany, and granted Australia didn't deserve to win because of lack of aggressiveness, but Australia got JOBBED by that flopping Italian at the end of regulation. After that, I could never, ever root for this team.

:raccoon:

Go France!
 

English on tour

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it makes me laugh reading about football (soccer) and flopping :lol: i swear no one in England would have a clue what you are on about!

i really dont care who wins now (did i mention i backed Italy and France at the start :thumbup: ) i just hope its a great game with a few goals to finsh the World Cup!
 

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How did anyone pick France once Cissé broke his leg?

Im pulling for France. I cant stand France but they have played the best soccer in the tournament imo.
 
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Zeno

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BigDavis75 said:
Without Nesta, France's D is just as good as Italy's.

Cannavaro has consistently been the best defender in the tournament--he may be the best defender in the world right now. There isn't a single French defender on par with him.

Italy's defense as a whole is playing like the best in the world, even without Nesta. French defense is solid but not even close to playing at the same level.

I think Germany wins the 3rd place game rather easily--they have more to play for than the Portugese who I feel won't even care when the game starts.

Italy and France will go to extra time. Italian depth will win out as fresh legs from Del Piero will score the game winner 1 - 0.
 

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Zeno said:
Cannavaro has consistently been the best defender in the tournament--he may be the best defender in the world right now. There isn't a single French defender on par with him.

Italy's defense as a whole is playing like the best in the world, even without Nesta. French defense is solid but not even close to playing at the same level.

I think Germany wins the 3rd place game rather easily--they have more to play for than the Portugese who I feel won't even care when the game starts.

Italy and France will go to extra time. Italian depth will win out as fresh legs from Del Piero will score the game winner 1 - 0.

So what? One player does not make a unit. Outside of Cannavaro, who is not the nest in the world, I think that every starting French defender is better than every other starting Italian defender (except for maybe Abidal). Player for player on that defense, the French are better. How can you possibly say they are not playing close to the same level? The French not only shut out the Brazilians but held them without a SOG until like the 85th, did you even watch this game? The French defense absolutely dominated the Brazilian offense and before that they held the Spanish to 1 goal (on a PK) and shut out your Portugese. To say the French D is not near the same level is simply ignorant.
 
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Zeno

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BigDavis75 said:
So what? One player does not make a unit. Outside of Cannavaro, who is not the nest in the world, I think that every starting French defender is better than every other starting Italian defender (except for maybe Abidal). Player for player on that defense, the French are better. How can you possibly say they are not playing close to the same level? The French not only shut out the Brazilians but held them without a SOG until like the 85th, did you even watch this game? The French defense absolutely dominated the Brazilian offense and before that they held the Spanish to 1 goal (on a PK) and shut out your Portugese. To say the French D is not near the same level is simply ignorant.

Italy has surrendered 1 goal on an OWN goal--they are playing better than any defense, they are on their own level nobody else is even close right now. If I was building a team by unit (Defense/midfield/strikers) I'd take the Italians as I am sure most of the world would.

Did you watch the French defense versus South Korea? Italy's defense never looked that poor against better competition.

Also Buffon Vs. Barthez isn't even close and GK is as much a part of the defense as anything.

Yes they shut out the Portugese but the French were outshot over 2 - 1 in that game. The Portugese had trouble finishing all tournament long. The game versus Brazil--they played well, but 1 game isn't enough to make me feel they are better than Italy.
 
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BigDavis75

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Zeno said:
Italy has surrendered 1 goal on an OWN goal--they are playing better than any defense, they are on their own level nobody else is even close right now. If I was building a team by unit (Defense/midfield/strikers) I'd take the Italians as I am sure most of the world would.

Did you watch the French defense versus South Korea? Italy's defense never looked that poor against better competition.

Also Buffon Vs. Barthez isn't even close and GK is as much a part of the defense as anything.

Yes they shut out the Portugese but the French were outshot over 2 - 1 in that game. The Portugese had trouble finishing all tournament long. The game versus Brazil--they played well, but 1 game isn't enough to make me feel they are better than Italy.


The South Korea game was a fluke, France has turned it on when it mattered. They destroyed Togo, what did togo have 1 shot? Then they played a much better crop of teams, than the Italians, with Brazil/Portugal/Spain to Australia/Ukraine/Germany, you can't argue otherwise. Italy should not have beaten Australia in the first place and Ukraine, who was missing some key guys, put one off the woodwork and had one stolen from them by Zaccardo. France allowed 1 goal, off a PK I might add, against a much superior crop of offensive teams. There is no way you can say that Italy has been in a level of their own.

Also, when you say above that Italy's units are better than those of France's, there is no way I can agree. France has the better strikers, they both run 1 forwatd and Henry is clearly better than Toni. As far as the midfield, Zidane is better than Totti and Makalele and Viera are better than Pirlo and Gatusso, Ribery is also pretty decent and Malouda is a very underrated player IMO. I would also take France's MF. As far as D, with Nesta I would take and Italy and without I would take France. On GKs, well that isn't even remotely close.
 

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Just my two cents : Cannavaro is the best defensive player of the world cup and Zambrotta did very well 'til now. But Materazzi sucks and Grosso is nothing special, excepted in diving.

As an unit, they're performing at the same level as France, especially since the second stage : they did suffer against Australia and Ukraine, teams that could hardly be seen as powerful offensive squads.

And our defense wasn't that bad during pool stage either.
I mean, Switzerland didn't score and had maybe one real scoring chance, Korea scored an incredibly lucky goal on its lone chance and Todo didn't do squat. Ok, these teams suck but Spain, Brazil and Portugal don't.

I agree that Buffon is better than Barthez, though. (well Barthez said before the world cup that he wouldn't try to catch the ball but would just punching it, because the ball floated too much in the air and therefore sucked : mission accomplished, he doesn't catch anything).
 
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Zeno

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BigDavis75 said:
Also, when you say above that Italy's units are better than those of France's, there is no way I can agree. France has the better strikers, they both run 1 forwatd and Henry is clearly better than Toni. As far as the midfield, Zidane is better than Totti and Makalele and Viera are better than Pirlo and Gatusso, Ribery is also pretty decent and Malouda is a very underrated player IMO. I would also take France's MF. As far as D, with Nesta I would take and Italy and without I would take France. On GKs, well that isn't even remotely close.

It seems there are very few experts that agree with you...read this article...


Breaking down the teams

Goalkeeper

Italy: Gianluigi Buffon is either the best goalkeeper in the world or at worst in the top three, depending whom you talk to. Only Petr Cech and Iker Casillas merit comparison with Buffon. After Buffon was investigated for his gambling habits before the tournament, the fear was that he would be distracted, but he has looked anything but that. Factor in an Azzurri defense that has looked watertight for most of the tournament, and it's going to take something special to beat Buffon.

France: Fabien Barthez was a controversial choice as the French keeper before the tournament started, with Lyon's Gregory Coupet considered the safer choice. Barthez's reflexes have diminished over the years but he remains a solid shot-stopper. Barthez's chief flaw remains the same, however, and it's the reason he was run out of Manchester United a few years back. Simply put, he's an erratic keeper who can be prone to mistakes. Historically, the book on Barthez was that although he was unreliable on the club level, he was always under control for France. However, any French fan who witnessed him playing volleyball with Cristiano Ronaldo's 30-yard free kick in the semifinals cannot help but feel uneasy whenever Barthez is called on to make a save.

Edge: Italy

Defense
Italy: The amazing thing about Italy's defensive performance so far is that most of it has been achieved without tour de force center back Alessandro Nesta, out with injury since the game against the Czech Republic. Without his longtime partner in crime, Italy's other defensive stalwart, Fabio Cannavaro, has picked up the slack and has been sensational. The two attacking wingbacks -- Gianluca Zambrotta and Fabio Grosso -- have been excellent at the back and dynamic attacking down the flanks. Grosso in particular has proved to be a match winner, earning the penalty that saw Italy through against Australia (albeit a dubious one) and curling a sublime left-footed winner against Germany. The ***** in the armor continues to be Nesta's replacement, Marco Materazzi. To be fair to the big man, he actually has been fairly solid so far, surprising people, but Materazzi has a history of making a big error or lapse in concentration that leads to an opposition goal.

France: The French defense has been extremely solid, particularly from the second phase onward, when the back line has evoked memories of the majestic defense that carried France to the 1998 World Cup. One member of that starting unit, Lilian Thuram, remains (although now at center back instead of right back), and his partner in the middle, William Gallas, is equally proficient. Right back Willy Sagnol is solid, but the weakness here is left back Eric Abidal. Abidal is a threat going forward, but he remains shaky defensively and might be hard-pressed to counter the threat of Zambrotta on the wing.

Edge: Italy

Midfield

Italy: Italy's strength remains the playmaking duo of Andrea Pirlo and Francesco Totti. Totti's still not back to his best after his ankle injury and has had a tendency to drift in and out of games so far, but he still leads all players at this World Cup with four assists. Pirlo, on the other hand, has been consistently superb and, along with Cannavaro, has been Italy's best player so far. The book on Pirlo is that he's not your ideal lead playmaker because he can be shut down when a defense keys specifically on him and uses man-marking. However, when Pirlo is afforded a free role and the opportunity to play off another playmaker -- as he does at club level with Kaka at AC Milan and for Italy with Totti -- he has the capability to unlock any defense.

The remainder of the midfield offers a balance between defense and energy. Gennaro Gattuso is the ball-winning defensive stalwart; Mauro Camoranesi is a complete two-way player; and Simone Perrotta offers energy down the left flank. So far this World Cup, Perrotta often has found himself in promising offensive spots on the field, but his leaden first touch has let him down every time. Lippi might want to consider playing Daniele De Rossi (back from suspension) to help shadow Zidane.

France: The French team still revolves predominantly around Zidane, who was dominant against Brazil and less so, but still excellent, against Portugal. The defensive midfielders Claude Makelele and Patrick Vieira, have been superb, making it almost impossible for opposing teams to generate any offense through the center of the field. Youngster Franck Ribery offers an element of spontaneity on the right flank and prevents teams from focusing totally on Zidane in midfield. Ribery has an erratic shot, but his willingness to run at people creates space and problems. However, he'll need to learn to pace himself and conserve his energy better in the final. The final midfielder, Florent Malouda, is the most unheralded player in the unit but has been a mild disappointment, showing none of the flair he exhibits at club level.

Edge: France

Attack

Italy: The Azzurri have yet to find a go-to guy at forward for this World Cup, and this might ultimately prove to be their undoing. The man in question, Toni, has looked uncomfortable in his role as the single target man up front for Italy. He's been inconsistent so far this tournament and has had some extremely quiet spells, not what one expected coming off one of the most prolific seasons in Serie A history. Although he has good technical skill for a big man, he's not the ideal type of player to link up with the interplay provided by Pirlo, Totti and the other Italian players. Expect to see Toni subbed out for Alberto Gilardino early in the game if he fails to make an impression.

The other bone of contention is Lippi's infatuation with bringing on Vincenzo Iaquinta, who's quite possibly one of the most cumbersome strikers to don the Italian jersey in recent years. Aside from a fortuitous goal gifted to him on an error by a Ghanaian defender, the only thing Iaquinta has demonstrated so far, is his unique ability to fall down when trying to dribble. Lippi would be better off going with veteran Filippo Inzaghi, who at least has demonstrated a historical ability to put the ball in the net, or Alessandro Del Piero, who isn't the player he once was, but still offers a creative option. Del Piero is probably still haunted by his glaring misses against France in the Euro 2000 final, which would have sealed the game for Italy and will be looking for a chance at redemption.

France: Contrary to the '98 World Cup winning team, this French squad is loaded with talent at striker. Yes, Henry and David Trezeguet were also on the '98 team, but both had yet to blossom into the world-class strikers they are now. In Henry's case, he still has something to prove. Although regarded by many as the finest striker in the world, he has been dogged by two accusations: a seeming inability to reproduce his club form at Arsenal at the national team level and a disturbing habit of choking in big games (see the Champions League final against Barcelona). Henry's goal against Brazil in the quarterfinal took care of the first label; now we'll see whether he can shake the second charge on the biggest stage of them all.

Trezeguet is a prolific scorer in Serie A but is unlikely to see much time in this game. Domenech favors the lone striker formation and prefers to replace Henry late in games with someone who can mimic his pace and ability to run at defenders. Trezeguet is more finisher than speed merchant. So far, Domenech has been using Louis Saha in this role, but with Saha out through suspension, Sidney Govou will get the call. It remains to be seen whether Domenech's continued insistence on subbing out Henry late in games will come back to haunt him.

Edge: France

Prediction

The French have played superbly since the group stage and, in Zidane, have the biggest clutch player in the game in recent memory. However, this Italian team is just too good defensively and might prove difficult to unlock even without Nesta. For the French to win, they'll need a piece of magic from Zidane or Henry, but in a defensive game where the buildup will be slow on both sides, the Italians must be favored. Italy has been the most consistent team in the World Cup so far and has been troubled only by teams that have forced the pace and played a physical style. In a game between two very similar teams, Italy narrowly edges France, although it goes almost without saying that if the game goes to penalties, bet your life savings on Italy losing.

Jen Chang is the U.S. editor for ESPNsoccernet. He can be reached at: [email protected]
 
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Zeno

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BigDavis75 said:
Also, when you say above that Italy's units are better than those of France's, there is no way I can agree. France has the better strikers, they both run 1 forwatd and Henry is clearly better than Toni. As far as the midfield, Zidane is better than Totti and Makalele and Viera are better than Pirlo and Gatusso, Ribery is also pretty decent and Malouda is a very underrated player IMO. I would also take France's MF. As far as D, with Nesta I would take and Italy and without I would take France. On GKs, well that isn't even remotely close.

Read what I said again, I said , "Italy has surrendered 1 goal on an OWN goal--they are playing better than any defense, they are on their own level nobody else is even close right now. If I was building a team by unit (Defense/midfield/strikers) I'd take the Italians as I am sure most of the world would."

I didn't say as a TEAM I said as a unit and I was only referring to the defense. I think Henry on any day can be the best striker in the World...I'd take him before any of the Italian forwards--the Italians have more depth there though but none of them measure up to him.

I honestly think the MF is a lot more even, Zidane has had 2 very good games but he looked ordinary in the group stages. Italy has been much more consistent, they just haven't looked special like Zidane and Ribery have at times.

Either team can win, it will be low scoring and my guess it goes in extra time and Italian depth wins out. I wouldn't be shocked in France wins, I'd have no problems with them winning--its not a side I dislike, its just from watching most of the matches, in my opinion, the Italians have been playing better and more consistent from the start.
 

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Zeno said:
I honestly think the MF is a lot more even, Zidane has had 2 very good games but he looked ordinary in the group stages. Italy has been much more consistent, they just haven't looked special like Zidane and Ribery have at times.
This is the key to the entire game IMO.

Zinane and Ribery is among the top 5 players at this WC, but Italy has without doubt the best overall squad. The best team will win IMO. (kinda like Colts' starplayers vs. Patriots team when I think about it)

Good game so far...
 
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BACH said:
This is the key to the entire IMO.

Zinane and Ribery is among the top 5 players at this WC, but Italy has without doubt the best overall squad. The best team will win IMO. (kinda like Colts' starplayers vs. Patriots team when I think about it)

Good game so far...

Certainly more entertaining so far than 80% of the previous games.
 

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BACH said:
I'm guessing Zidane won't be the tournament MVP after that!

Made absolutely no sense at all. None. Now that Italy has won it, can Zidane's bonehead red card be a major reason? Not sure since it was so close to the end.

I'm just mystified that he did that. Just speechless.
 

BACH

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Chaplin said:
Made absolutely no sense at all. None. Now that Italy has won it, can Zidane's bonehead red card be a major reason? Not sure since it was so close to the end.

I'm just mystified that he did that. Just speechless.
Exactly. Not sure it made a huge impact on the game, but one of the greatest players ever will now forever be remembered for that!
 
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Dback Jon

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Unless the French player that missed the PK wouldn't have kicked a PK if Zidane was around, then in the end, it looks like it had little bearing on the game.

Still, sad and stupid way to end an illustrious career.
 

Chaplin

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Even considering the Zidane red card, the horrific officiating in the first 2 rounds and the US's lack of any playing ability, this has been a pretty good World Cup. Makes me want to actually start paying attention to some of the club leagues and maybe even MLS (since we have Landon Donovan and Coby Jones on the LA Galaxy here).
 

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