2008-2009 Roster

[Irish]

Barbosa and Bell are both much better than Barnes.

Based on last year's stats, that is true. But several articles suggest that Barnes personal problems were a big part of what happened last year. In any case, big things are expected of Barnes.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/2008/07/22/20080722barnessuns.html

"We're excited to add a player of Matt's caliber to our roster," said Suns President of Basketball Operations and General Manager Steve Kerr said in a release. "He has a chance to have a big impact on our team. His athleticism and versatility at both ends of the court will be important for us along with his playoff experience."

Barnes, 28, spent the past two seasons in a mostly reserve role with the Golden State Warriors. He collected a career-best 9.8 points and 4.6 rebounds in the 2006-07 season. Last season, he averaged 6.7 points and 4.4 rebounds in 19.4 minutes per game.

General Manager Steve Kerr and coach Terry Porter talked with Barnes by phone last week from Las Vegas, where the Suns were in NBA Summer League action. The team likes his shooting touch, ball-handling and big-game experience.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Well we can agree that DJ isn't the answer at the backup PG.
However i do think it's very important who you put on the floor with him coming off the bench and Barbosa isn't that guy.

Then we need to trade him. A team can't afford to have two need-to-be-a-1-but-have-to-play-the-2-because-decision-making-ability-is-poor type players.

 

[Mainstreet]

Here's some more of how the roster turns.

Jerry Brown of the East Valley Tribune gives some additional thoughts on how he views Barnes may shape the Suns roster. I would really like Hinrich on the Suns roster.

But Barnes’ ability to play power forward and even shooting guard in addition to small forward makes the Suns more flexible and might give them some interesting options.

Are both Boris Diaw and Leandro Barbosa now necessary on the roster? Would the Bulls, who are still sparring with Luol Deng on a contract and looking to move Kirk Hinrich’s contract, entertain the idea of swapping Hinrich for Diaw (they have almost identical contracts) and then go after some center depth with their last roster spot?

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/121519

 

[elindholm]

Based on last year's stats, that is true. But several articles suggest that Barnes personal problems were a big part of what happened last year.

Even in his best year, Barnes was not at the level of either Bell or Barbosa.

In any case, big things are expected of Barnes.

Come on. Every press conference for every free agent signed by every team says the same things. You can't possibly put any stock into such blatant salesmanship. Maybe they're expecting big things and maybe they aren't, but there's no way to tell that from cheerleading at a press conference.

 

[Irish]

Eric, I'm not sure I agree with your analysis, I do agree with your conclusion. Right now it is premature to assume Barnes will mean the Suns should IMMEDIATELY trade Leandro and/or Boris.

Change the subject: I am not counting on much from Strawberry this year, but I am not ready to give up on him either. Raja was not much of a shooter his first two seasons in the NBA. In his first two seasons, Raja shot for three 33.3% and 27.3%. In his third year he shot 41.2% for three.

 

[Splinters81]

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[JCSunsfan]

Even in his best year, Barnes was not at the level of either Bell or Barbosa.



Come on. Every press conference for every free agent signed by every team says the same things. You can't possibly put any stock into such blatant salesmanship. Maybe they're expecting big things and maybe they aren't, but there's no way to tell that from cheerleading at a press conference.

I agree with this. Does Bell seem to be declining though?

I have never been in favor of trading Barbosa. He is one of the most unguardable players in the league 1 on 1. He's a decent shooter. He has the potential to be a very good defensive player with just a little coaching.

As a pg, he is fine on the break. He'll score more on his own than Steve would, and he won't find the open man as often. But he is a better scorer on the break than Steve. He is fine bringing the ball up. His speed and handles are fine for doing that. His great difficulty is running the team in the half court. Our half court offense for a while now has been give the ball to Steve and let him create off the dribble or the pick an roll. If we had a half court offense that was a little more structured, I think LB would do better.

At this point, trading LB would be a mistake. If we could get good value for Diaw, fine, but I don't think we can unless its for another player that HAS to be moved (Heinrich or Artest maybe?) but if its Heirich, we need another big.

 

[Irish]

I agree with this. Does Bell seem to be declining though?

I have never been in favor of trading Barbosa. He is one of the most unguardable players in the league 1 on 1. He's a decent shooter. He has the potential to be a very good defensive player with just a little coaching.

As a pg, he is fine on the break. He'll score more on his own than Steve would, and he won't find the open man as often. But he is a better scorer on the break than Steve. He is fine bringing the ball up. His speed and handles are fine for doing that. His great difficulty is running the team in the half court. Our half court offense for a while now has been give the ball to Steve and let him create off the dribble or the pick an roll. If we had a half court offense that was a little more structured, I think LB would do better.

At this point, trading LB would be a mistake. If we could get good value for Diaw, fine, but I don't think we can unless its for another player that HAS to be moved (Heinrich or Artest maybe?) but if its Heirich, we need another big.

The only player I was willing to trade Barbosa for was Calderon, but BC would have none of it and traded Ford instead.

D'Antoni kept pushing the idea of letting Hill and Diaw handle the ball in the half court. I never felt they had that worked out all that well, but I think it COULD work if it was better designed. While I hope they find a backup PG, the point forward system could serve as a stop gap until Dragic develops.

 

[mojorizen7]

Even in his best year, Barnes was not at the level of either Bell or Barbosa.

I always think in terms of a players performance in the playoffs as a true measure of his mental abilities as well as his physical talent. I won't argue that Bell has proven he can step up and impact a series.....but i'd argue that Barnes may have as much ,if not more value in the playoffs than Barbosa has shown. I'm willing & eager to see another year of Barbosa out from under D'Antoni's wing. If he can show he can guard someone....anyone......we'll be sittin' pretty.
Personally,i do think that Barnes will have a larger positive impact on the upcoming season then Barbosa will.
Also, i'm hoping Barbs & Barnes will start w/Nash,Stat & Shaq.

 

[AceP]

Bell and Barbosa had their best seasons alongside Nash, that's why Nash was named MVP twice. And do u recall how many role players had a breakout season and earn a fat contract because of playing alongside Shaq? Such as Damon Jones.

Baron Davis might be close to Nash, but GSW never got anything like Amare and Shaq. In common basketball sense, it is highly favorite that Barnes will perform better in this new Suns. His shooting % will definitely improve as Amare + Shaq will give him more open looks he ever had in entire career. He was doing 36% for 3p in his best season 06-07, I expect him to upgrade close to 40%.

More importantly, stats only speak half of the player. What we need most from Barnes is his defence. In GSW, he was always assigned to defend opponent top scorer, which he did pretty well night in and night out. If we had him in April, we would have handled Parker + Ginobili duo much much better.

 

[SirStefan32]

Also, i'm hoping Barbs & Barnes will start w/Nash,Stat & Shaq.

As does every opposing coach. It's bad enough that Nash can't guard a chair, we don't need to throw in 2nd guard who might be even worse defensively.

As far as Barnes goes- he is a good, talented player, but there is absolutely no way in hell he should start over Hill or Diaw. I like the guy, he works hard, defends, does a little bit of everything- he is a homeless man's Shawn Marion who doesn't complain about everything, but he is not even close to Hill or Diaw.
Hill is probably one of the smartest players in the league and Diaw is a match up nightmare. I do see value of having Hill and Diaw (playmakers) in the 2nd unit, but I just don't see Barnes as a starter.

 

[SirStefan32]

I agree with this. Does Bell seem to be declining though?

I have never been in favor of trading Barbosa. He is one of the most unguardable players in the league 1 on 1. He's a decent shooter. He has the potential to be a very good defensive player with just a little coaching.

As a pg, he is fine on the break. He'll score more on his own than Steve would, and he won't find the open man as often. But he is a better scorer on the break than Steve. He is fine bringing the ball up. His speed and handles are fine for doing that. His great difficulty is running the team in the half court. Our half court offense for a while now has been give the ball to Steve and let him create off the dribble or the pick an roll. If we had a half court offense that was a little more structured, I think LB would do better.

At this point, trading LB would be a mistake. If we could get good value for Diaw, fine, but I don't think we can unless its for another player that HAS to be moved (Heinrich or Artest maybe?) but if its Heirich, we need another big.

Barbosa has the same problem Amare has- low (or no) basketball IQ. He either shoots three's like there is no tomorrow or charges to the hoop like an angry rhino and takes any shot, no matter how difficult it may be. He has no understanding of fundamental principles of basketball, especially defense and has no court vision.

Barbosa is a good role player- come in for some instant offense. Beyond that, he is useless. Having said that, his contract is great, and the Suns have no shooters except for him, Bell and Nash. That probably means he's safe from trades.

 

[Irish]

Barbosa has the same problem Amare has- low (or no) basketball IQ. He either shoots three's like there is no tomorrow or charges to the hoop like an angry rhino and takes any shot, no matter how difficult it may be. He has no understanding of fundamental principles of basketball, especially defense and has no court vision.

Barbosa is a good role player- come in for some instant offense. Beyond that, he is useless. Having said that, his contract is great, and the Suns have no shooters except for him, Bell and Nash. That probably means he's safe from trades.

Leandro spreads the floor with his shooting but forces guys to stay close to basket because he can get pas them if they aren a step or two away. In a sense, he creates a defacto double team. But obviously Porter has a lot of work to do to get more out of him:

1. Learn to look to pass when driving the basket. He has shown he can do it, but somehow doesn't on a regular basis.

2. Work on the mid range shot. Nobody is going to come out to guard him because he'll blow by them. Once again, he can do it but just doesn't do very often.

3. Play position defense and stop gambling. Porter has a reputation as a defense oriented coach and a teacher of point guards.


It has been reported that Porter intends to change the defensive scheme to force the ball baseline rather than into the middle. Push the ball middle is designed to put guys where there is more help available, but requires quick rotations or it just leaves the lane open. Baseline has less help, but it can be played more straight up.

With both Nash and Barbosa being weak one on one defenders, this scheme may help to counter this problem. I have no opinion on whether this will work, but at least it is an attempt to deal with the team personnel .

 

[mojorizen7]

Originally Posted by mojorizen7

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Also, i'm hoping Barbs & Barnes will start w/Nash,Stat & Shaq.

As does every opposing coach. It's bad enough that Nash can't guard a chair, we don't need to throw in 2nd guard who might be even worse defensively.

As far as Barnes goes- he is a good, talented player, but there is absolutely no way in hell he should start over Hill or Diaw. I like the guy, he works hard, defends, does a little bit of everything- he is a homeless man's Shawn Marion who doesn't complain about everything, but he is not even close to Hill or Diaw.
Hill is probably one of the smartest players in the league and Diaw is a match up nightmare. I do see value of having Hill and Diaw (playmakers) in the 2nd unit, but I just don't see Barnes as a starter.

I hear ya & you're right but in starting Barnes he can guard just about anybody that Bell would be asked to guard in his place + you get more offensive production from Barbs than you would from Bell...IMO.
Also having Bell on the 2nd unit as a veteran 3 pt threat who can defend would be a nice luxury.

 

[Irish]

I'm not concerned about who starts and just about the minutes. I think we will see a lot fewer minutes for starters than we are used to.

INSIDE: I think Shaq,and Lopez will all play more than 20 but less than 25 minutes. I look for Amare to let low 30's and Diaw will end up in teens. I expect Diaw will get a few minutes at SF, but only if there ia an injury.

96 minutes: Amare 32, Shaq 24, Lopez 24, Diaw 16

SF: I expect Hill and Barnes will split the SF minutes. Initially, I'd look for Hill at 28 and Barnes at 20; but that may change if Hill shows his age or Barnes gets really hot.

SG: I expect Bell will play 28 and Barbosa 20 unless Barbosa plays some PG.

PG: I think everyone is hopping the Suns will get a real PG to backup Nash. Otherwise Bell will play more and Barbosa will play the #1 slot for about 16 minutes.

IMHO, Diaw is going to have to fight for his minutes if he wants to be a rotation player. I could easily see him drop to 12 minutes a game range and even fewer if the Suns get a strong PG. He's still valuable because he can play so many positions and do ball handling if Barbosa is at the #1. But he cannot expect the treatment he had under D'Antoni.

 

[mojorizen7]

IMHO, Diaw is going to have to fight for his minutes if he wants to be a rotation player. I could easily see him drop to 12 minutes a game range and even fewer if the Suns get a strong PG

Wow, i really don't see him getting that small a role here....not with his versatility & fat contract.

 

[BC867]

I'm not concerned about who starts and just about the minutes.

I'd add one thought to that. Who finishes, as well.

What with the Hack-a-Shaq situation, Amare's foul trouble (hopefully a thing of the past) and the Suns putting their five best players on the court with the game on the line, regardless of position.

Usually resulting in a Power Forward, a Small Forward and three Guards in the past (once again, hopefully a thing of the past).

 

[SirStefan32]

Originally Posted by mojorizen7

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Also, i'm hoping Barbs & Barnes will start w/Nash,Stat & Shaq.


I hear ya & you're right but in starting Barnes he can guard just about anybody that Bell would be asked to guard in his place + you get more offensive production from Barbs than you would from Bell...IMO.
Also having Bell on the 2nd unit as a veteran 3 pt threat who can defend would be a nice luxury.

I agree on both point- Barnes can guard anyone Bell would usually guard, and Barbosa will probably give you more on offense than Bell would.
Here is my concern:
In our usual lineup- Nash/Bell/Hill or Diaw/Amare/Shaq- you have only one player who can't guard a chair- Nash. Bell, Hill and Diaw are good defenders.

Substitute Hill (or Diaw) and Bell with Barbosa and barnes- and you get Nash/Barbosa/Barnes/Amare/Shaq- 2 players who can't guard a chair. You are taking 2 good defenders out of the starting lineup and substituting them with one good defender and 1 player who can't play any defense to save his life.

I can definitely see where you're going with this- bringing one hell of a strong unit off the bench with Bell, Hill and Diaw, but I am terrified of what other teams starting back courts would do to Nash/Barbosa back court.
Barbosa might work as a starter if you have Jason Kidd to play alongside him, but I don't see it happening with Nash.

I am just curious to see what Suns roster is going to look like, and if we are even going to have Barbosa and/or Diaw. I am also curious to see if Barnes gets his shot back.

 

[SirStefan32]

Wow, i really don't see him getting that small a role here....not with his versatility & fat contract.

I couldn't agree more. No way does Diaw play 12 minutes off the bench. I think he earned himself some minutes with his performance in playoffs. He is 2nd best play maker on the team, one of the best defenders on any position (1-4) and in addition to all that, he is making a lot of money. He will see plenty of minutes next year.

 

[Chaplin]

IMHO, Diaw is going to have to fight for his minutes if he wants to be a rotation player. I could easily see him drop to 12 minutes a game range and even fewer if the Suns get a strong PG. He's still valuable because he can play so many positions and do ball handling if Barbosa is at the #1. But he cannot expect the treatment he had under D'Antoni.

Come on George, that's just ridiculous. You are thinking that Robin Lopez is going to get more minutes than Boris Diaw? Seriously? You can't be serious.

Boris is EASILY our 3rd best big on the team, 2nd if you ask the right people. He'll get plenty of minutes. In fact, I don't think it's going out on a limb to say that he and Amare will probably be the TOP minutes-played guys on the team. Boris not only plays in crunch time and along with the starters, he also is usually the only rotation player that plays with the bench scrubs in blowouts.

 

[AceP]

About Diaw's minutes, I'm really lost here, r u guys crazy?

The signing of Barnes is a clear signal that Kerr and Porter don't trust Diaw to play SF at all. And if u remember, exactly a year ago, D'Antoni signed Grant Hill to be our starting SF ahead of Diaw!

Now we also have an emerging Tucker. Bell, Hill, Barnes, Tucker and Barbosa (if we keep him), 5 is already more than enough to cover 2-3. How many minutes could Diaw get at SF position?

At PF, he'll compete with Skinner or any other backup PF we sign for minutes, unfortunately, Amare is young and healthy now, how many minutes left?

After all, it looks like Diaw will get most of his minutes as backup center, because, thanks God, Shaq would not play more than 30 minutes and almost certain to rest 20 games during regular season. But do we forget something here? Oh, we have just drafted a talent young 7 footer Robin Lopez ...

 

[SirStefan32]

About Diaw's minutes, I'm really lost here, r u guys crazy?

The signing of Barnes is a clear signal that Kerr and Porter don't trust Diaw to play SF at all. And if u remember, exactly a year ago, D'Antoni signed Grant Hill to be our starting SF ahead of Diaw!

Now we also have an emerging Tucker. Bell, Hill, Barnes, Tucker and Barbosa (if we keep him), 5 is already more than enough to cover 2-3. How many minutes could Diaw get at SF position?

At PF, he'll compete with Skinner or any other backup PF we sign for minutes, unfortunately, Amare is young and healthy now, how many minutes left?

After all, it looks like Diaw will get most of his minutes as backup center, because, thanks God, Shaq would not play more than 30 minutes and almost certain to rest 20 games during regular season. But do we forget something here? Oh, we have just drafted a talent young 7 footer Robin Lopez ...

First of all, signing Matt Barnes means that Kerr found a good player willing to play for the minimum. It means nothing more and it has nothing to do with Diaw. As far as Hill signing a year ago goes- D'Antoni is gone. Hill will no longer be forced to play more than 25 minutes per game.

As far as Lopez goes, I hope that you are not seriously saying that Lopez is more talented or better in any way, shape, or form than Diaw. Lopez is a scrub, and nothing more.

I realize Boris does not live up to his potential, but neither Barnes nor Lopez are serious competition for Diaw.

 

[Griffin]

With the Amundson signing, one spot remains for either Dragic or some other back-up PG, though it seems most likely it will be Dragic after all.

Matt Barnes, replacing Gordan Giricek
Robin Lopez, replacing Brian Skinner
Goran Dragic, replacing Marcus Banks
Louis Amundson, replacing Sean Marks

It also looks like Eric Piatkowski's tenure with the Suns is officially over. In Marks and Pike, we are losing two great locker room guys. But we have potentially improved on the floor at every one of those positions.

 

[arwillan]

With the Amundson signing, one spot remains for either Dragic or some other back-up PG, though it seems most likely it will be Dragic after all.

Matt Barnes, replacing Gordan Giricek
Robin Lopez, replacing Brian Skinner
Goran Dragic, replacing Marcus Banks
Louis Amundson, replacing Sean Marks

It also looks like Eric Piatkowski's tenure with the Suns is officially over. In Marks and Pike, we are losing two great locker room guys. But we have potentially improved on the floor at every one of those positions.

 

[Irish]

With the Amundson signing, one spot remains for either Dragic or some other back-up PG, though it seems most likely it will be Dragic after all.

Matt Barnes, replacing Gordan Giricek
Robin Lopez, replacing Brian Skinner
Goran Dragic, replacing Marcus Banks
Louis Amundson, replacing Sean Marks

It also looks like Eric Piatkowski's tenure with the Suns is officially over. In Marks and Pike, we are losing two great locker room guys. But we have potentially improved on the floor at every one of those positions.

I think this is deceptive. At the end of the season it would be Pike that is being replaced since Banks had been traded already.

At the start of last season, it would be Barnes replacing Marion and Dragic replacing Banks. I love Barnes, but I think Marion is better. But the trade radically changed the team dynamic.

It is hard to be sure if the Lopez eill be remarkably better than Skinner, but he has upside and Skinner doesn't.