2010 Roster

[RugbyMuffin]

Just hit me this morning

Kevin Kolb - out of the league
Beanie Wells - out of the league
Levi Brown - out of the league
Early Doucet - out of the league
Todd Heap - out of the league

-----------------------------------------------

D'Anthony Batiste - currently unsigned.
LaRod Stephens-Howling - currently unsigned.
Daryn Colledge - currently unsigned.

..and of course there was Adam Snyder who is a utility backup for SF, getting paid the league minimum. The Cardinals signed him to be a starter.....that lasted a year.
-----------------------------------------------

Still on the Cardinals:
Larry Fitzgerald
Michael Floyd
Rob Housler
Lyle Sendlien
Bobby Massie
Nate Potter

Amazing. When you look back it is not hard to see why that team was so bad, and why Graves was fired.

 

[AZCrazy]

Every team churns 50% of its roster every season. It's just too competitive and too physically grinding to keep guys for very long.

The five or six stars stay, everyone else gets upgraded whenever possible.

Pretty sure Floyd wasn't on the team in 2010. Colledge will get work somewhere, too.

 

[GimmedaBall]

NFL.com writer Rosenthal had an article in April 2014 and looked at the roster turnover since 2011:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000340908/article/which-teams-have-had-the-most-nfl-roster-turnover

Hard to pinpoint the rationale. The Colts have only 7 players still on the roster from 2011 but have a competitive team. Cards have 13 which puts them toward the top of the league with turnover. The Seahags and Whiners are near the top in stablility. Those two teams were bad for several years---brought in new mgmt with their vision, assembled their players, now reaping the benefits of a bunch of guys in the prime playing years within the coaches system.


Is it the new mgmt/coaching staff that comes in and cleans house to get 'their' guys to run their scheme? Saw that with the roster churning done by BASK. They have brought in players to match BA's version of the 'Air Coryell' offense and Bowles version of the 3-4. Players that don't fit the new schemes are let go.


Is it because the teams with bad records have higher draft picks and can jettison veterans when they bring in a high pick to take his place? A lower-round player will be hard pressed to break into a roster loaded with previous high picks who are in their prime---Whiners have a several high picks in their prime playing on their current OL.Washington gave up several 1st round picks for RGIII---they are not bringing in top tier talent with several drafts and it is not surprising to see their roster pretty stable by comparison.


Injuries are another huge factor in roster turnover. Go out with a knee, etc. and lose a step on your return---get cut. That applies to Kolb, Beanie, LSH. The career length for players is pretty short---it's rare to get guys into double digits with and NFL career.

Lots of reasons for roster turnover.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

True enough.

Yet, 4 out of those 5 players that are not in the league were "starters" for the 2010 season, and Doucet was a heavily used role player.

And its not even that they are not on the team anymore, they out of the entire league.

Fair enough, if some people don't see it as a big deal, to me it is very telling of why this team became so poor so quick. It also drives home why things needed to change, and why certain players needed to go.

You have to understand, there are many a poster that fought tooth and nail for keeping some of those players, and even more than where 100% sure that Whizenhunt would be the best coach that the Cardinals ever had, and should have never been fired. And I can't even say I posted this as a "I told you so" post. I actually was just thinking about it today, and figured to give the topic a once over.

This organization can screw up your head making bad players seem better for lack of comparison. I am as guilty as the next fan, see Bradley Sowell.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Injuries are another huge factor in roster turnover. Go out with a knee, etc. and lose a step on your return---get cut. That applies to Kolb, Beanie, LSH. The career length for players is pretty short---it's rare to get guys into double digits with and NFL career.

Lots of reasons for roster turnover.

Injury was part of the problem with those 3 players, specifically LSH who was a good player for us.

BLOK, and Beanie Wells could have been in 100% health, and I doubt anything would have prevented them leaving the league.

BLOK just wasn't NFL quality, and Wells couldn't stop from tripping on blades of grass.

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[GimmedaBall]

If I had my druthers . . . I'd like to see some stability within the Cards and that includes assembling a core group of players who are with us through their prime years of production. You have to expect the older guys to leave either via FA or because they are no longer productive. Some because they can't follow simple rules on personal responsibility to the team. You also expect to see roster turnover with draft picks coming in and claiming a job. In fact, you should almost require mgmt. to bring in a couple of keepers via the annual draft which means other guys are going out the door.

It took a few years for both the Whiners and the Hags to draft that core group of guys and also get them in line with the coaching scheme/philosopy.

Got my fingers crossed that BASK are on the right path---but before they get to the roster stability seen in the current Whiners/Hags---expect to see plenty of turnover and churning of the roster. That doesn't necessarily mean the Whiz/Graves players were bad---it might just mean they are not a fit to what BA and staff want to do on the field.

That kind of turnover can be a positive. Only time will tell.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

If I had my druthers . . . I'd like to see some stability within the Cards and that includes assembling a core group of players who are with us through their prime years of production. You have to expect the older guys to leave either via FA or because they are no longer productive. Some because they can't follow simple rules on personal responsibility to the team. You also expect to see roster turnover with draft picks coming in and claiming a job. In fact, you should almost require mgmt. to bring in a couple of keepers via the annual draft which means other guys are going out the door.

It took a few years for both the Whiners and the Hags to draft that core group of guys and also get them in line with the coaching scheme/philosopy.

Got my fingers crossed that BASK are on the right path---but before they get to the roster stability seen in the current Whiners/Hags---expect to see plenty of turnover and churning of the roster. That doesn't necessarily mean the Whiz/Graves players were bad---it might just mean they are not a fit to what BA and staff want to do on the field.

That kind of turnover can be a positive. Only time will tell.

There is a host of posters/fans that feel the same way.

One of the biggest reasons the Cardinals lack a large fan base is that the team, in the past, the future remains to be seen, has destroyed the core of successful teams time and time again for the sake of money.

1999 comes to mind as well as 2010.

In both cases they had a core of players, and either let those players walk, or traded them.

That being said, the Cardinals have since tried to shed off that "Same Ol' Cardinals" reputation, and unfortunately, they have been bitten for their efforts, whether it be Fitzgeralds' ridiculous contract, or Washington's failure to be a professional.

Dockett, and Campbell are exceptions to the what normally happens out in the desert. Hopefully more of this, and less of the former will start happening more frequently.

Things are looking pretty good right now, it will be interesting once Keim finally gets Rod Graves' mistakes from the past off the books and can start forming his own core. Cause starting every offseason with 10 million+ in dead money is getting old for everyone.

 

[b8rtm8nn]

I just remember Pete Carroll and the Seahags GM churning the roster his first two years (especially the first) - and now they are stable and have a Superbowl. I'll take that for the Cardinals

 

[GimmedaBall]

I just remember Pete Carroll and the Seahags GM churning the roster his first two years (especially the first) - and now they are stable and have a Superbowl. I'll take that for the Cardinals

And the Seahags went 7-9 the first two years under Carroll as they shuffled their roster. That makes the Card's 10-6 last year even more impressive since we had just as significant roster shuffle.

On the other hand, Harbaugh, when he came into the Whiner HC job, reaped the benefits of years of high draft picks coming off losing seasons. Nolan and then Singletary left him with a lot of good players that they had drafted.

Looks like the Cards are having to go the Howdy Dowdy Carroll route--but we had better results in our first year under BASK. Let's do it in our second year instead of the 4th.

 

[iRobot]

Todd Heap haha..

I run into Todd so often out here in North Mesa. He lives in Las Sendas and I've ran into him getting Panda Express and ran into him at the gas station. Always have my Cardinals shorts on and my Cardinals hat each time and he just stares my way like "Is he gonna recognize me?" and right before I leave I just say.. "Sup Todd?"

He just smiles and nods every time.. nice guy, too bad he was practically useless for us.

 

[Cardiac]

Interesting topic and thoughts. I know Duckjake has been posting that our SB run happened in part because of the number of good players who had been with the Cards for about 5 years. (Correct any misses on my part Duck).

So yes not churning the entire roster is preferred but obviously some churn has to happen because of the CAP, injuries, upgrades and aging. No roster in the NFL is without some holes so hence the upgrades mention.

To Gimme's point it is encouraging how well BASK has done with the roster churn but I would counter that the Cards had more core players and talent then the Seahawks when Carol took over.

 

[DoTheDew]

The only question that really matters is were they productive when they were here. The physical nature of the NFL can turn elite players into unemployed players in a year or two.

Kolb, Beanie, Heap, and Doucet all had constantly health problems while they were with us. Levi had a nasty injury, followed by another nasty injury after we got rid of him. If their bodies had held up, there's no reason why all of those guys couldn't at least be backups in the NFL today, except for maybe Heap who likely would be retired anyway due to age.

I think the real point is that Graves and Whis were too quick to take guys with durability questions. Kolb, Beanie, Heap and Doucet all had histories of getting dinged up when we brought them in. If those guys were out there 16 games a season, we probably wouldn't be complaining about any of them.

 

[52brandon]

The only question that really matters is were they productive when they were here. The physical nature of the NFL can turn elite players into unemployed players in a year or two.

Just hit me this morning

Kevin Kolb - out of the league NO. Was worth the price/risk in acquiring, but absolutely not the price of his contract. HUGE mistake. Possibly a huge contribution to Graves' demise
Beanie Wells - out of the league NO. Wasted 1st rd pick.When it would have been much, MUCH better used on Laurinaitis who was even on the same team... possibly another factor in the end of Graves
Levi Brown - out of the league NO, I'm sure I, as well as the majority of posters here, can go on for days about how he wasn't productive/shouldn't have been here, and on and on and on
Early Doucet - out of the league NO. Rookie with potential that didn't work out
Todd Heap - out of the league NO. Was worth a shot but couldn't stay healthy

-----------------------------------------------

D'Anthony Batiste - currently unsigned. NO. Sucked. Enough said
LaRod Stephens-Howling - currently unsigned. YES. He did quite well here, but likely suffered a career ending injury to start the 2013 season
Daryn Colledge - currently unsigned. YES. Way overpaid. But still a benefit. He was healthy and a fair blocker

..and of course there was Adam Snyder who is a utility backup for SF, getting paid the league minimum. The Cardinals signed him to be a starter.....that lasted a year.
-----------------------------------------------

Still on the Cardinals:
Larry Fitzgerald
Michael Floyd
Rob Housler
Lyle Sendlien
Bobby Massie
Nate Potter

Amazing. When you look back it is not hard to see why that team was so bad, and why Graves was fired.

I assume you meant 2012 since most weren't here

 

[Duckjake]

Interesting topic and thoughts. I know Duckjake has been posting that our SB run happened in part because of the number of good players who had been with the Cards for about 5 years. (Correct any misses on my part Duck).

So yes not churning the entire roster is preferred but obviously some churn has to happen because of the CAP, injuries, upgrades and aging. No roster in the NFL is without some holes so hence the upgrades mention.

To Gimme's point it is encouraging how well BASK has done with the roster churn but I would counter that the Cards had more core players and talent then the Seahawks when Carol took over.

The 2009 team which I think was even better than the '08 team had 16 of 22 starters left from 2008. 8 starters from the 2008 team are still starting in the NFL. Boldin, Fitz, Sendlein, Antonio Smith, Dockett, Dansby, DRC and Rolle. 6 of them have been to at least one Pro Bowl. The other two, Sendlein and Dansby have started a combined 152 games since then.

 

[52brandon]

The 2009 team which I think was even better than the '08 team had 16 of 22 starters left from 2008. 8 starters from the 2008 team are still starting in the NFL. Boldin, Fitz, Sendlein, Antonio Smith, Dockett, Dansby, DRC and Rolle. 6 of them have been to at least one Pro Bowl. The other two, Sendlein and Dansby have started a combined 152 games since then.

Hard to believe Dansby never made a Pro Bowl. If he came along 5 years later, I bet he'd have made it

 

[RugbyMuffin]

The 2009 team which I think was even better than the '08 team had 16 of 22 starters left from 2008. 8 starters from the 2008 team are still starting in the NFL. Boldin, Fitz, Sendlein, Antonio Smith, Dockett, Dansby, DRC and Rolle. 6 of them have been to at least one Pro Bowl. The other two, Sendlein and Dansby have started a combined 152 games since then.

Thus the point I was trying to make, which was not about roster turnover, it was about keeping a core in tact.

By 2010:
Antonio Smith
Anquan Boldin
Antrel Rolle
Karlos Dansby
Kurt Warner

Were all gone, via free agency, trade, and retirement. All that talent that is still in the league 4 to 5 years later was allowed to walk out the door.

All replaced by the sack of snail snot roster that I listed above from 2010. Whose talent landed them out of the league in 2 to 3 years or less.

Its that kind of management that allows the "Same Ol' Cardinals" mantra to stick.

You can apologize for the Cardinals all you want, and talk about how all NFL rosters have turnover, but that turnover has to be managed, or you get what we all saw from 2008 to 2010.

You can't let that much talent walk out the door, and overpay bad players with bad contracts to replace them.

 

[Duckjake]

Thus the point I was trying to make, which was not about roster turnover, it was about keeping a core in tact.

By 2010:
Antonio Smith
Anquan Boldin
Antrel Rolle
Karlos Dansby
Kurt Warner

Were all gone, via free agency, trade, and retirement. All that talent that is still in the league 4 to 5 years later was allowed to walk out the door.

All replaced by the sack of snail snot roster that I listed above from 2010. Whose talent landed them out of the league in 2 to 3 years or less.

Its that kind of management that allows the "Same Ol' Cardinals" mantra to stick.

You can apologize for the Cardinals all you want, and talk about how all NFL rosters have turnover, but that turnover has to be managed, or you get what we all saw from 2008 to 2010.

You can't let that much talent walk out the door, and overpay bad players with bad contracts to replace them.

I know there will be apologists for the Cards but to have done it twice after making the playoffs, 1999 and 2010. is just unreal.

Another problem with letting guys walk is that you use valuable draft picks to replace them as well. So instead of improving another position you have to draft to fill a hole.

Let Rhodes and Wilson go in 2013. Use a first round draft pick on a Safety in 2014.

As for longevity, the Seahawks, according to pro football-reference.com, had 19 players who started games for them who were in at least their 3rd season with Seattle in 2013. Experience + QB = SB

 

[52brandon]

As much as I hate to say it, letting AW go was the right move. He became a significant liability in coverage. And I think by him staying unemployed after having such a good year, there's more to it than we can see. But I'm pretty sure that's why our GM/HC combo is entirely different

 

[Duckjake]

As much as I hate to say it, letting AW go was the right move. He became a significant liability in coverage. And I think by him staying unemployed after having such a good year, there's more to it than we can see. But I'm pretty sure that's why our GM/HC combo is entirely different

AW wasn't unemployed. He signed a 3 year deal with the Patriots within a few days of being released by the Cards and got hurt and wasn't released by NE until this Spring.

The weird deal was signing Bell who was older and now drafting D-1 who from reports is the exact same player as ADub. But the latter is ok. A guy gets NFL old and you replace him with a younger guy. However, you should, if possible, do it a year before it is time to let the veteran go.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Thus the point I was trying to make, which was not about roster turnover, it was about keeping a core in tact.

By 2010:
Antonio Smith
Anquan Boldin
Antrel Rolle
Karlos Dansby
Kurt Warner

Were all gone, via free agency, trade, and retirement. All that talent that is still in the league 4 to 5 years later was allowed to walk out the door.

All replaced by the sack of snail snot roster that I listed above from 2010. Whose talent landed them out of the league in 2 to 3 years or less.

Its that kind of management that allows the "Same Ol' Cardinals" mantra to stick.

You can apologize for the Cardinals all you want, and talk about how all NFL rosters have turnover, but that turnover has to be managed, or you get what we all saw from 2008 to 2010.

You can't let that much talent walk out the door, and overpay bad players with bad contracts to replace them.

Antonio Smith = Calais
Anquan Boldin = Disgruntled and wanted Fitz type $$$
Antrel Rolle = deal in NY made him highest paid FS in game at the time.
Karlos Dansby = franchised twice, which indicates FO wanted him. In the end, the coin and tax advantages in Florida won out.
Kurt Warner = a man who leaves $11m+ on the table, clearly had enough of the game.

 

[52brandon]

AW wasn't unemployed. He signed a 3 year deal with the Patriots within a few days of being released by the Cards and got hurt and wasn't released by NE until this Spring.

The weird deal was signing Bell who was older and now drafting D-1 who from reports is the exact same player as ADub. But the latter is ok. A guy gets NFL old and you replace him with a younger guy. However, you should, if possible, do it a year before it is time to let the veteran go.

lol. So... Uh... I forgot a sentence in there. I was referring to Kerry Rhodes as being the unemployed one under suspicious circumstances. He had a great couple seasons. His play couldn't be the cause. My only guess is that the rumors were true, he is in fact gay. And I'm assuming they expected some sort of locker room disintegration from it and it seems either every NFL team, or Rhodes himself agreed

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Antonio Smith = Calais
Anquan Boldin = Disgruntled and wanted Fitz type $$$
Antrel Rolle = deal in NY made him highest paid FS in game at the time.
Karlos Dansby = franchised twice, which indicates FO wanted him. In the end, the coin and tax advantages in Florida won out.
Kurt Warner = a man who leaves $11m+ on the table, clearly had enough of the game.

All good reasons.

Still remains that those players were all gone by 2010.

It is tough to believe Rod Graves, and company talk about "core players" when twice in his tenure he let the core of a contending team walk out the door.

Reasons and excuses are great and all, but bottom line they didn't get the job done.