2011 Defensive Co-ordinator thoughts

[sportznutt]

Who would you like to go after, assuming Bill Davis gets fired?

 

[AzCardzFan]

Who would you like to go after, assuming Bill Davis gets fired?

Marvin Lewis..... assuming he gets fired.

 

[earthsci]

Make a list and go after a few. Wade Phillips for example. Going after one guy gets you people like Bill Davis. Whiz wanted Keith Butler but that didn't pan out.

 

[187]

Anybody that isn't promoted from within, please.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I think we should bring Clancy back and have him be run game defensive coordinator and Davis be passing game defensive coordinator.

 

[PaulW]

Whiz is just denying the truth about this team which he created. the defensive schemes are terrible, Davis got fired because his schemes did not work with the 9ers and will not work any where else. It's a shame that a coach cannot fess up to the truth. Even the players know there is a major problem, DRC discussed it yesterday after the game. Playing Wilson out of position, noted continuously, week after week by Mitch who lives in MA. I would hope Whiz can see it from the sidelines.

 

[Buckybird]

1)Kevin Greene

2)John Fox

3)Keith Butler

With a laid back coaching staff, this team needs a fiery, young DC. Kevin Greene knows the 3-4 & will not be scared to get in someones face and challenge him to be the best.

 

[O]

1)Kevin Greene

2)John Fox

3)Keith Butler

With a laid back coaching staff, this team needs a fiery, young DC. Kevin Greene knows the 3-4 & will not be scared to get in someones face and challenge him to be the best.

I agree, that's why I do not want Wade Phillips.

 

[Buckybird]

I agree, that's why I do not want Wade Phillips.

Wades defensive teams while good statiscally, generally don't force many turnovers. A beaten 65 yr old man...pass!!!

 

[sportznutt]

I'd love to have John Fox here, but I can't see him out of Carolina....too many injuries may save him.

I like the thought of Marvin Lewis.

Is Childress known for defense?

 

[joeshmo]

Whiz is just denying the truth about this team which he created. the defensive schemes are terrible, Davis got fired because his schemes did not work with the 9ers and will not work any where else. It's a shame that a coach cannot fess up to the truth. Even the players know there is a major problem, DRC discussed it yesterday after the game. Playing Wilson out of position, noted continuously, week after week by Mitch who lives in MA. I would hope Whiz can see it from the sidelines.

I am not sticking up for the guy because I to think he should be gone, but the schemes while he was with the 49ers was not his own. That D was without a doubt Mike Nolans defense - scheme and plays.

Not only is it the DC but we have to face facts as well that it is also the players. Wilson has done jack squat this year, even when in the box, and Wilson will tell you the same and he has. People said when we let go of McFadden that it couldn't get worse with Toler, well guess what it did, it got far worse now McFadden is playing very well in Pitt again. According to the Cards sideline reporter Toler got benched in the last game because he had no clue how to play in his bracket coverage, bracket coverage is a simple concept and he doesnt know how to play in it. Campbell was supposed to be a monster this year and hasnt done anything, he has let us down. We traded up in the 2nd round for what is starting to look like another Branch, meaning another 2nd round pick we traded for who will never live up to expectations. Wont even go into the OLB fiasco.

 

[joeshmo]

When coming up with a list do you automatically take the 4-3 coordinators off that list?

 

[Buckybird]

When coming up with a list do you automatically take the 4-3 coordinators off that list?

Ask Wiz

Given our personel, I would say no.

 

[sportznutt]

We could use a LB upgrade too.

 

[Chopper0080]

Our needs at D Coordinator start and end at the level of credibility that the coach brings in relation to scheme and success.

1-Marvin Lewis: Great scheme and great success. A proven history of making the most out of players with limited skills. See Dhani Jones/Roy Williams. the only negative is that he would be a head coach again in about 2 years.

2-Wade Phillips: Every time he has been a defensive coordinator he has been successful. He runs a 3-4, and understand the scheme as well as any in the league. Not fiery, but players play for him when his is at this position. Also has better long term possibilities.

3-Mike Zimmer: If Lewis gets the axe, and is not available Zimmer is a good back up plan. Solid scheme, and has shown he can develop young aggressive corners. A feasible signing but not a 3-4 guy.

4-Leslie Frazier: If Childress gets the axe and Frazier can't find a head coaching job, he would be a good fit albeit a short term fix. Solid defense where ever he has gone. Understands the need for pressure.

5-Mike Singletary: 3-4 guy who has a ton of passion. I don't think he is a head coach but can get players to run through walls for him. Knows the division, and the players to some extent.

No go list
-Gerg Manusky: I like him, but I don't see him having the credibility to overcome the 49ers stigma.

-Kevin Greene: Might be a great coordinator, but has never done it before. We can't afford for him to learn on the job. Sorry.

-Keith Butler: Will not leave the Steelers. Forget about it.

-John Fox: Will be a head coach somewhere.

 

[Chopper0080]

When coming up with a list do you automatically take the 4-3 coordinators off that list?

We shouldn't as our personnel fits a 4-3 better.

 

[cardpa]

I think we should bring Clancy back and have him be run game defensive coordinator and Davis be passing game defensive coordinator.

 

[Stout]

I am not sticking up for the guy because I to think he should be gone, but the schemes while he was with the 49ers was not his own. That D was without a doubt Mike Nolans defense - scheme and plays.

Not only is it the DC but we have to face facts as well that it is also the players. Wilson has done jack squat this year, even when in the box, and Wilson will tell you the same and he has. People said when we let go of McFadden that it couldn't get worse with Toler, well guess what it did, it got far worse now McFadden is playing very well in Pitt again. According to the Cards sideline reporter Toler got benched in the last game because he had no clue how to play in his bracket coverage, bracket coverage is a simple concept and he doesnt know how to play in it. Campbell was supposed to be a monster this year and hasnt done anything, he has let us down. We traded up in the 2nd round for what is starting to look like another Branch, meaning another 2nd round pick we traded for who will never live up to expectations. Wont even go into the OLB fiasco.

Joe, that simply isn't true. McFadden is still awful at finding the ball. I can't count the number of times over the season that I've thanked my dad for taking McFadden back, and he's sworn at me in return.

 

[chickenhead]

Slightly off-topic, but how do Marvin Lewis and Carson Palmer get along? Obviously if Lewis were DC he wouldn't be coaching Palmer, but worth noting since we're discussing both on the board.

 

[joeshmo]

Joe, that simply isn't true. McFadden is still awful at finding the ball. I can't count the number of times over the season that I've thanked my dad for taking McFadden back, and he's sworn at me in return.

Lets see they both have the same amount of INT's and PD's yet Toller has been targeted 30 more times then McFadden.

Toller has already in 9 games given up more 20+ yard reception then McFadden did all of last year.

Yep, simply not true, things did not get worse.

 

[Stout]

Lets see they both have the same amount of INT's and PD's yet Toller has been targeted 30 more times then McFadden.

Toller has already in 9 games given up more 20+ yard reception then McFadden did all of last year.

Yep, simply not true, things did not get worse.

I highlighted wrong. I'm not defending Toler, just saying that McFadden hasn't actually gotten any better. At all. He still stinks.

As for Toler, I don't think our DC is doing much to help him.

 

[joeshmo]

As for Toler, I don't think our DC is doing much to help him.

Gotcha, debating different points.

As for Toler, I don't like the DC either but I cant say that in this players case. According to reports from the sideline Toler was benched for not playing the system/schemes called he was supposed to be playing. So we don't know if Toler would be playing well or not playing well in the DC's system considering Toler isn't actually playing in it. Got to put most of the onus on Toler in this case with that news in place.

 

[Shane]

Lets see they both have the same amount of INT's and PD's yet Toller has been targeted 30 more times then McFadden.

Toller has already in 9 games given up more 20+ yard reception then McFadden did all of last year.

Yep, simply not true, things did not get worse.

I would bet big big big money that if you reversed the two and surrounded Toler with Pitts D and pass rush he would be far outperforming McFadden. To bad we cant!

 

[joeshmo]

I would bet big big big money that if you reversed the two and surrounded Toler with Pitts D and pass rush he would be far outperforming McFadden. To bad we cant!

So what you are saying is that you would just be handing me your money.

Toler doesn't even know how to play bracket coverage, a staple of the Pitt defense so I highly doubt it.

 

[john h]

Wades defensive teams while good statiscally, generally don't force many turnovers. A beaten 65 yr old man...pass!!!

I read a quote from one of the beat writers in Dallas that Phillips let the inmates run the asylum.