2017 Official Draft Thread

[Yuma]

My take away from the night is the Suns got stronger on defense, and added some shooting.

 

[sunsfan88]

I don't care much for the 2nd round guys but the Suns got the guy most people viewed as the best prospect of the draft 4th overall so that alone nets them an A for the draft in initial observations imo.

If the Suns can sign someone like Jonathan Motley as an UDFA to bring to summer league and training camp then I would be pumped!! Or even the Kobi kid from Arizona.

 

[sunsfan88]

Lots of people praised the Jackson pick. You can't like one but not the other? WTH? Sounds like an overreaction to a reaction but I digress.

^this.

 

[Hoop Head]

You really should stop right there. Plenty of posters on this board have researched the hell out of 2nd rd picks and we've debated guys like Jordan Bell, Semi Ajeleye, Hart among others to death. Don't assume for even a mini second that we all just looked at mock drafts today and came to the conclusion on who to pick.

McD is one of the worst GMs in the league at drafting outside the lottery with Ulis as his only hit so he doesn't deserve benefit of the doubt there.

Why do you think well established and ten times smarter than Suns front offices like GSW and Boston immediately traded up or bought picks just to draft the guys I just mentioned above?

Outside of the lottery the Suns have selected 6 times under McD in 4 years. He's picked #32 in 2016, #18, #27, and #50 in 2014, #29 and #57 in 2013. That's 6 picks over 4 years, not counting this season.

2016- #32 - Tyler Ulis
2014- #18 - Tuler Ennis
2014- #27 - Bogdan Bogdanovic
2014- #50 - Alec Brown
2013- #29 - Archie Goodwin
2013- #57 - Alex Oriakhi

Ulis was a good pick, I think we all agree on that and Ennis was the only bad pack. So where do you figure that he sucks when he's picking outside of the lottery? All of the other picks are average, none can be called bad when you really look at them in perspective. McD has done really well in the draft since he's been here, lottery or outside the lottery. Compare the success rate of his 2nd round picks to other GM's, it's probably equal. Not many of them pan out, neither do late 1st round picks usually.

 

[3rdside]

I don't see a Ginobli, Isaiah Thomas or latrell sprewell there; I see not a whole lot of success (bogdan n/a).

So he's hit on 1 / 5.

Not sure where a 20% success rate places him, maybe a little above average?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Hoop Head]

I wasn't going to start a thread specifically for Peters but saw this posted elsewhere, it's Coach Cal talking about defending Peters, he speaks very highly of him. Hopefully he can make it as a role player, who knows. He'll be with our G-League team next year, I'm sure. I know the rosters have expanded this year with the extra room for the 2 way players signed on G-League contracts so who knows if he'll make it up to us for any games or not. He's a good rebounder and shooter with size though.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I don't see a Ginobli, Isaiah Thomas or latrell sprewell there; I see not a whole lot of success (bogdan n/a).

So he's hit on 1 / 5.

Not sure where a 20% success rate places him, maybe a little above average?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think Bogdan counts as a hit whether he develops or not because he was key to getting Chriss. That's a late first rounder well spent.

 

[Ronin]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[elindholm]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

That's pretty cool.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The lottery is the lottery for a reason. I don't know why your continuing to argue about players drafted in the lottery. And I'm not gonna repeat myself so you can go back yourself and read what I said about Ulis.

Using the lottery as a demarcation is dumb. The players oiil diesnt suddenly change mid-teen because one team made the playoffs and another different. You want to use an arbitrary line to make a point, by all means do so, but the rest of us certainly are entitled to think it's a baseless argument.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I wasn't going to start a thread specifically for Peters but saw this posted elsewhere, it's Coach Cal talking about defending Peters, he speaks very highly of him. Hopefully he can make it as a role player, who knows. He'll be with our G-League team next year, I'm sure. I know the rosters have expanded this year with the extra room for the 2 way players signed on G-League contracts so who knows if he'll make it up to us for any games or not. He's a good rebounder and shooter with size though.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Reminds me of Jon Leuer.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't see a Ginobli, Isaiah Thomas or latrell sprewell there; I see not a whole lot of success (bogdan n/a).

So he's hit on 1 / 5.

Not sure where a 20% success rate places him, maybe a little above average?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You nailed it. You might not see a ginobili but ulis might be that guy. The "hit" rate for all GMs in the second round has to be relatively low. There's only so many spots in the NBA and only so many spots in each team's rotation. So to call McDonough's track record outside of the lottery (which is arbitrary) terrible is disingenuous at best. Unless someone has researched the actual hit rate of GMs and can prove it. Otherwise the preponderance of the evidence surely points otherwise.

I mean, other than draymond green, what other 2nd round pick do the warriors have in their rotation that they drafted? Or any other playoff team?

 

[TheBook1]

Jackson will be the best player out of this draft if he gets that jump shot. Book it!

 

[Raindog]

Nobody is saying McD is doing a terrible job drafting... at least, I don't think anyone is. Just that the picks he has made later in the draft since he has been here haven't been so great that he is above question on the ones last night.

Personally, I think Reed was a classic reach pick - probably would have been there late in the second, and very likely may have gone UFA. So they might have gotten much better value out of using that pick on someone who was more of a first round quality talent, as there were still several players like that on the board.

Of course, it's not going to make or break the future, anyway, especially if Jackson lives up to expectations... so in the end it all comes down to picking nits. But questioning whether they maximized value on that pick is at least legitimate fodder for fan board discussion.

 

[Chaplin]

Don't fool yourself, GMs and agents talk. There is certainly a possibility that the Suns had some information Reed might be gone by the #54, so they did what they had to do. Besides, even though I would have liked Bell (although there is talk that he had some medical red flags), I'm ok drafting a young backup to Devin Booker. I'm pretty sure Knight and Barbosa weren't going to cut it. His skill set was also a need for the team, so I don't have a problem with it.

Besides, the overwhelming success of our #4 pick pretty much drowns out ALL the negativity about our 2nd rounders, IMO. My favorite Suns pick since Amare Stoudemire.

 

[Ronin]

Jeff Zillgitt @JeffZillgitt

A little late to this, but ESPN's draft ratings were up 13% on Thursday compared to 2016 draft coverage, per Nielsen.

 

[Mainstreet]

Nobody is saying McD is doing a terrible job drafting... at least, I don't think anyone is. Just that the picks he has made later in the draft since he has been here haven't been so great that he is above question on the ones last night.

Personally, I think Reed was a classic reach pick - probably would have been there late in the second, and very likely may have gone UFA. So they might have gotten much better value out of using that pick on someone who was more of a first round quality talent, as there were still several players like that on the board.

Of course, it's not going to make or break the future, anyway, especially if Jackson lives up to expectations... so in the end it all comes down to picking nits. But questioning whether they maximized value on that pick is at least legitimate fodder for fan board discussion.

If you really like a player in the 2nd round, grab him. Dragic was not on anyone's radar when the Suns drafted him. The Spurs even helped the Suns get the draft pick they needed.

 

[JS22]

Does this mark the end of Slin's sentence?

I kinda missed Slin throughout the draft process.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You really should stop right there. Plenty of posters on this board have researched the hell out of 2nd rd picks and we've debated guys like Jordan Bell, Semi Ajeleye, Hart among others to death. Don't assume for even a mini second that we all just looked at mock drafts today and came to the conclusion on who to pick.

McD is one of the worst GMs in the league at drafting outside the lottery with Ulis as his only hit so he doesn't deserve benefit of the doubt there.

Why do you think well established and ten times smarter than Suns front offices like GSW and Boston immediately traded up or bought picks just to draft the guys I just mentioned above?

I would like to know how many of these "plenty" posters have conducted the amount and type of in-depth research that an nba front office undertakes. When you say "researched the hell out of 2nd rd picks" you're telling me they've seen all of Reed's games this year? I am going to say they haven't watched a SINGLE full game of his. You're telling me they've got any insight into his private workout? I'm going to go out a limb again and say they've never been privy to ANY workout from Reed, and to very little (other than maybe those televised on the nba network at the combine, and even then I'm going to bet they didn't watch every single workout televised, and certainly couldn't see those not televised) workouts of any of the second rounders. None of the posters here do this as a fulltime job. I am going to say they've researched online, maybe watched a handful of games of those few prospects that were televised, read a bunch of stuff online from media types, and watched what little hype vids exist on Youtube.

As for your denegration of McDonough's 2nd round history . . . I doubt the hit rate across the nba is very good for 2nd round picks. He seemingly has a good one with Ulis. I'll bet that's one of 5 or 6. If he's hitting 20% I'll bet that's average to high compared to most.

For instance let's take the two you just used as examples of "ten times smarter than Suns front offices like GSW and Boston" . . .

Boston's recent 2nd rounders:
Deyonte Davis - Traded to Grizzlies
Rade Zagorec - Not in NBA, rights traded to Grizzlies
Demetrius Jackson - D Leaguer
Ben Bentil - Waived after 3 pre-season games
Abdel Nader - D League Rookie of Year (still not on roster)
Jordan Mickey - D Leaguer
Marcus Thornton - D Leaguer
Kris Joseph - Two nondescript seasons with Boston and Nets and then international
E'Twuan Moore - Four teams with 6 year averages of 6.6pts and 1.8rebs per game

Golden States 2nd rounders:
Patrick McCaw - Averaged 4pts/game on limited minutes - could be something or nothing
Draymond Green - Obviously a great pick - one of best historic picks of2nd rounders ever
Ognjen Kuzmic - played 36 games for GS over 2yrs, averaged 1pt 1reb now intl
Charles Jenkins -Intl after waived
Richard Hendrix - D league then intl
Jermareo Davison - Waived
Stephane Lasme - Waived
Kosta Perovic - Waived

So Boston is batting 0.000
Golden State is batting 1 or 2 of 8, so 0.125 or .250

Neither is exactly burning McDonough

 

[sunsfan88]

I kinda missed Slin throughout the draft process.

Considering how offensive you got when just one of the Suns 3 picks wasn't praised and got criticism, I don't you would've enjoyed slin had he been here.

 

[Mainstreet]

I kinda missed Slin throughout the draft process.

Same here. He knew a lot about draft prospects.

 

[3rdside]

Considering how offensive you got when just one of the Suns 3 picks wasn't praised and got criticism, I don't you would've enjoyed slin had he been here.

He was pro tatum over jackson and Fultz over Ball; I was Jackson over tatum and Ball over fultz....go figure

 

[JS22]

Considering how offensive you got when just one of the Suns 3 picks wasn't praised and got criticism, I don't you would've enjoyed slin had he been here.

Sorry, I just get "offensive" when an argument doesn't make much sense. (Hitting on guys like Booker and Warren late in the lottery counting for nothing. But, if Warren and Booker go one or two picks later suddenly McD gets credit since they're "outside the lottery?")

Slin and I have had some disagreements and he can be kind of a pain in the ass at times. But he knew a TON about draft prospects and helped keep this board alive throughout some pretty poopy seasons. Did he know as much as the Suns FO? Nope. Nobody on here does. But his ... personality ... led to some interesting discussions on this board.

 

[elindholm]

Slinslin has been messaging me on Facebook. I don't think he'll mind if I share that he was opposed to a possible Porzingis trade, because he's high on the young players the Suns have and is skeptical that Porzingis can stay healthy. At #4, he liked Tatum and "could talk himself into Jackson," which is pretty much where I was too.

 

[JS22]

Slinslin has been messaging me on Facebook. I don't think he'll mind if I share that he was opposed to a possible Porzingis trade, because he's high on the young players the Suns have and is skeptical that Porzingis can stay healthy. At #4, he liked Tatum and "could talk himself into Jackson," which is pretty much where I was too.

Maybe I'm out of the loop but I thought he was supposed to be back from his ban before the draft?