2018-19 Season | Point Guard Discussion

sunsfan88

ASFN Icon
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Posts
11,660
Reaction score
844
I’ve always found slin’s pure hatred for Dragic so amusing. He has it for most Euro prospects and players (which is ironic) but Dragic got the worst of it.

Without even asking him, I feel confident to say that he would take prime Telfair/Marshall/Price/Smith over prime Goran Dragic.
 

Phrazbit

ASFN Icon
Joined
Oct 10, 2011
Posts
20,290
Reaction score
11,366
Dragic is an empty stat player. For him to put up numbers he requires being the focal point of the offense, and Dragic as the focal point has never led to team success.

Dragic is an elite player in transition, no question, one of the best in the game in that respect... and he's been either below average or flat out awful in every other respect for most of his career.

Bledsoe is a far more well rounded player, he also has the advantage of not requiring the ball in his hands to be effective. Sure, it's hard to give Bledsoe a ton of credit for the Bucks success given the Greek Freak's dominance... it's also hard to imagine Dragic even functioning on a team with a similar defensive style and that asked him to play off the ball.

They both have their warts. Dragic is a selfish, ball dominating player who values his own role more than team success and doesn't even pretend to try on defense, Bledsoe is a quitter who throws in the towel when his team is struggling.

Neither would be helpful on the current Suns.
 

Proximo

ASFN Icon
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Posts
12,683
Reaction score
10,557
I am really liking Ja Morant more and more.

Check out this game performance.
xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
 

1Sun

ASFN Addict
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
Sep 8, 2018
Posts
8,750
Reaction score
1,129
Location
Chandler, AZ
I am really liking Ja Morant more and more.

Check out this game performance.
xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Flashy highlights, too much hero ball and defensive lapses in a come-from-behind home win against that perennial power Eastern Kentucky. I'm sold. :sarcasm:
 

ColdPickleNachos

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Mar 5, 2016
Posts
2,577
Reaction score
1,654
Okay...without cheating and looking at names...

Tell me which one is Ja Morant and which one is Isaiah Canaan.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
117,418
Reaction score
57,618
Kinda Bledsoe-ish.

Perhaps some De'Aaron Fox as well. What initially caught my eye on Fox is his ability to penetrate and his athleticism. In the video Morant looks like a better passer but of course the competition is different.
 

Proximo

ASFN Icon
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Posts
12,683
Reaction score
10,557
So, I just listened to the latest locked on suns podcast, and they talked about the bright side event where James Jones spoke.

According to them

1. Jones has no interest in making a trade for a pg, he wants to sign one in fa.
2. Apparently his targets are 1. Terry Rozier 2. Deangelo Russell
3. He does not want anymore young players, so a trade of our pick is most likely.
4. He does not want to give up any of our young players in trade, and instead wants to focus on developing them.

If this is true, and the suns are going hard after Rozier I think I am going to be sick. I am not really crazy about Russell either, but I would far prefer him if those are the two options.

Rozier will just be a horrific signing, this actually makes me pray Boston will offer him to us at the deadline cheap - like just the milwaukee pick basically and he can play awhile on the suns so Jones can see how much he sucks, and we avoid paying him a huge contract.
 

SirStefan32

Krycek, Alex Krycek
Joined
Oct 15, 2002
Posts
18,494
Reaction score
4,905
Location
Harrisburg, PA
So, I just listened to the latest locked on suns podcast, and they talked about the bright side event where James Jones spoke.

According to them

1. Jones has no interest in making a trade for a pg, he wants to sign one in fa.
2. Apparently his targets are 1. Terry Rozier 2. Deangelo Russell
3. He does not want anymore young players, so a trade of our pick is most likely.
4. He does not want to give up any of our young players in trade, and instead wants to focus on developing them.

If this is true, and the suns are going hard after Rozier I think I am going to be sick. I am not really crazy about Russell either, but I would far prefer him if those are the two options.

Rozier will just be a horrific signing, this actually makes me pray Boston will offer him to us at the deadline cheap - like just the milwaukee pick basically and he can play awhile on the suns so Jones can see how much he sucks, and we avoid paying him a huge contract.

That's at best a gross oversimplification of what he said. At worst it is a complete fabrication. He talked about how difficult it is to make a trade. How you can't just trade for a player- the player's team has to actually trade him. In other words, it takes two to tango. They even talked about how he called Boston about Rozier. Jones simply said it is easier to sign a free agent than it is to trade for someone.

His exact words were:
“I say it all the time, it takes two to tango. So, when your primary vehicle for acquiring a player is via trade, you don’t control that. We’ve seen time and time again you don’t control that,” Jones said. “At some point, the other team can back out or you can back out. So, the only way you can add is free agency, where you have more control, and the draft where you have complete control. That, for us, it will most likely be free agency. Just because when you look at our team and the way we construct it.”
That's a far cry from "having no interest in a trade."

Now, that said, I agree with you about Rozier, and would add that I am not a fan of Russell either. I would also point out that it is quite risky to rely on free agency too. Putting aside my dislike of Rozier and Russell, let's assume they are actually great targets for the Suns. What do you do when Celtics match Rozier's offer and Russell decides to sign an extension with the Nets, or signs elsewhere. Same thing with Rubio- what if he decides he likes Utah and extends with them?
 

Proximo

ASFN Icon
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Posts
12,683
Reaction score
10,557
That's at best a gross oversimplification of what he said. At worst it is a complete fabrication. He talked about how difficult it is to make a trade. How you can't just trade for a player- the player's team has to actually trade him. In other words, it takes two to tango. They even talked about how he called Boston about Rozier. Jones simply said it is easier to sign a free agent than it is to trade for someone.

His exact words were:
“I say it all the time, it takes two to tango. So, when your primary vehicle for acquiring a player is via trade, you don’t control that. We’ve seen time and time again you don’t control that,” Jones said. “At some point, the other team can back out or you can back out. So, the only way you can add is free agency, where you have more control, and the draft where you have complete control. That, for us, it will most likely be free agency. Just because when you look at our team and the way we construct it.”
That's a far cry from "having no interest in a trade."

Now, that said, I agree with you about Rozier, and would add that I am not a fan of Russell either. I would also point out that it is quite risky to rely on free agency too. Putting aside my dislike of Rozier and Russell, let's assume they are actually great targets for the Suns. What do you do when Celtics match Rozier's offer and Russell decides to sign an extension with the Nets, or signs elsewhere. Same thing with Rubio- what if he decides he likes Utah and extends with them?

If Boston matches Rozier's offer I would celebrate. But why would they do that - They are not going to pay starting money to a bad backup when they already have marcus smart.

Well honestly if we missed out on Rozier, Russell, and Rubio, it honestly wouldn't bother me that much, because I don't really like any of them especially at 15 million + a year. I would rather get someone like Corey Joseph, Tyus Jones. Pat Beverly, jose Barea, or TJ Mcconnell than overpay one of them. Better yet by far I would draft Morant.
 
OP
OP
Hoop Head

Hoop Head

ASFN Icon
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Posts
17,268
Reaction score
12,433
Location
Tempe, AZ
According to them

1. Jones has no interest in making a trade for a pg, he wants to sign one in fa.
2. Apparently his targets are 1. Terry Rozier 2. Deangelo Russell
3. He does not want anymore young players, so a trade of our pick is most likely.
4. He does not want to give up any of our young players in trade, and instead wants to focus on developing them.

I've read and hear a good bit about that event and this is the first time I've seen those 2 mentioned as the only targets in free agency. From what I understood he didn't name anyone specifically. I don't believe he's even allowed to name specific players due to the tampering rules. So claiming that his targets are Rozier and Russell, as the #1 and #2 options, is simply speculation. I haven't listened to that podcast yet but did they say Jones mentioned them or how did it come about that those 2 are his top targets?
 

Proximo

ASFN Icon
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Posts
12,683
Reaction score
10,557
I've read and hear a good bit about that event and this is the first time I've seen those 2 mentioned as the only targets in free agency. From what I understood he didn't name anyone specifically. I don't believe he's even allowed to name specific players due to the tampering rules. So claiming that his targets are Rozier and Russell, as the #1 and #2 options, is simply speculation. I haven't listened to that podcast yet but did they say Jones mentioned them or how did it come about that those 2 are his top targets?

Well, they were saying that Bill Simmons has said the Suns have repeatedly tried to trade for Rozier, and that the first thing James Jones did once he took over was to contact the Celtics to try and get Rozier. Also Gambo has reported the same thing.

I don't think they said he mentioned those names at the event, it was kind of them putting info together.

Maybe I am overreacting but the thought of Rozier being the number 1 target stunned me.
 

Proximo

ASFN Icon
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Posts
12,683
Reaction score
10,557
You must be registered for see images attach


Ok - this is one time I really hope Gambo knows something.
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,747
Reaction score
16,501
I'm not a big Smith fan but I can't see him being available for the Milwaukee pick. And if he is, we should jump on that deal as quickly as possible.
 

Proximo

ASFN Icon
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Posts
12,683
Reaction score
10,557
I'm not a big Smith fan but I can't see him being available for the Milwaukee pick. And if he is, we should jump on that deal as quickly as possible.

I don't believe it either.

But as I have already stated I would be fine giving up our own pick top 3 protected plus Okobo. If they are already planning on trading that pick, I think it would be hard to get more veteran value for it than this.
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,747
Reaction score
16,501
I don't believe it either.

But as I have already stated I would be fine giving up our own pick top 3 protected plus Okobo. If they are already planning on trading that pick, I think it would be hard to get more veteran value for it than this.

That's going too far for me. I don't really like the way he plays the game and I hate the idea of taking someone with his injury risk. For free, as in the Milwaukee pick, yes, but not for a top 3 or even top 5 protected pick even in a weak draft. And it's hard for me to consider him veteran help; his value has more to do with what you hope he can become because what he's been so far is a well below average starter.
 

SirStefan32

Krycek, Alex Krycek
Joined
Oct 15, 2002
Posts
18,494
Reaction score
4,905
Location
Harrisburg, PA
That's going too far for me. I don't really like the way he plays the game and I hate the idea of taking someone with his injury risk. For free, as in the Milwaukee pick, yes, but not for a top 3 or even top 5 protected pick even in a weak draft. And it's hard for me to consider him veteran help; his value has more to do with what you hope he can become because what he's been so far is a well below average starter.

I agree. If he can be had on the cheap side, sure, take him and the worst case scenario is you can decline the team option next year. But I would not give up a top-ten pick for him. I've been watching Dallas closely this year, and I wouldn't trade even a top-ten protected pick for him.
 

Proximo

ASFN Icon
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Posts
12,683
Reaction score
10,557
I agree. If he can be had on the cheap side, sure, take him and the worst case scenario is you can decline the team option next year. But I would not give up a top-ten pick for him. I've been watching Dallas closely this year, and I wouldn't trade even a top-ten protected pick for him.

Really? Even when the likely other option is Rozier?

That needs to be factored into this equation.
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,747
Reaction score
16,501
Really? Even when the likely other option is Rozier?

That needs to be factored into this equation.

If someone forced me to choose between the two and salary wasn't a factor, I'd probably choose Smith but it would be by a thin margin. Rozier plays hard on defense and doesn't have a bad knee but Smith is a threat to score any time he sees an uncrowded lane, so, small edge to Smith. Regardless, I'm going to continue hoping that we have better plans than either of these guys.
 
Last edited:

SirStefan32

Krycek, Alex Krycek
Joined
Oct 15, 2002
Posts
18,494
Reaction score
4,905
Location
Harrisburg, PA
Really? Even when the likely other option is Rozier?

That needs to be factored into this equation.

Well, that's tricky, but I would challenge that premise. The choice is not between just those two players. Frankly, I'd probably look at someone like Collison as a stopgap measure. Hell, I may even overpay Rubio or Brogdon slightly over choosing between Smith and Rozier.
 

SirStefan32

Krycek, Alex Krycek
Joined
Oct 15, 2002
Posts
18,494
Reaction score
4,905
Location
Harrisburg, PA
I'd also throw Dragic in there, depending on what really happened to his knee and what that looks like when he recovers. I prefer good defenders at PG spot, but I'd be OK with Dragic as a one-year stop gap while others (Melton, okobo, maybe Morant) develop a bit. I'd certainly rather have that scenario than overpaying Rozier for four or five years. Collison is still my low-key, modest, attainable target. He plays defense, facilitates, and can hit an open jumper. Nothing fancy about his game, but he just does everything well enough to be a positive factor. I think that's all the Suns need from the PG spot.
 

Mainstreet

Cruisin' Mainstreet
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2003
Posts
117,418
Reaction score
57,618
I'm not a big Smith fan but I can't see him being available for the Milwaukee pick. And if he is, we should jump on that deal as quickly as possible.

Definitely do this trade for the Bucks pick and maybe the Suns second round pick.
 

sunsfan88

ASFN Icon
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Posts
11,660
Reaction score
844
I'd also throw Dragic in there, depending on what really happened to his knee and what that looks like when he recovers. I prefer good defenders at PG spot, but I'd be OK with Dragic as a one-year stop gap while others (Melton, okobo, maybe Morant) develop a bit. I'd certainly rather have that scenario than overpaying Rozier for four or five years. Collison is still my low-key, modest, attainable target. He plays defense, facilitates, and can hit an open jumper. Nothing fancy about his game, but he just does everything well enough to be a positive factor. I think that's all the Suns need from the PG spot.
Corey Joseph is a good cheap and attainable target as well. Has the game and attributes to compliment Booker well.
 
OP
OP
Hoop Head

Hoop Head

ASFN Icon
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Posts
17,268
Reaction score
12,433
Location
Tempe, AZ
I'd add Jeff Teague into the equation of PG's for this summer, if he opts out. Minnesota would still have Tyus Jones and possibly Derrick Rose, who looks rejuvenated up there.


His current contract makes him unattractive but he's as good of a PG as Collison at the least. He's a decent shooter and can get those around him going. If Minnesota misses the playoffs this year it'll be the first time that Jeff Teague misses the postseason. Considering he's played for 3 different teams and none of them were considered good or great says something positive about his production as a floor general.

His shooting is down a little this year but he's playing pretty well overall. He's a career 45% shooter with 36% from 3pt range while averaging 5.8 assists and 12.7 ppg. His more recent numbers are more encouraging since he went from playing in Atlanta for 7 years to Indiana for a season and then to Minnesota last year and this year. His stats over the last 2 1/2 season are a bit better than his career stats also. He's averaging 14.4 ppg, 7.6 apg, 2.5 turnovers, 1.3 steals, 44% shooting and 36% from 3 in 32.4 minutes a game. He'd be new here as well and it seems like changing teams doesn't hurt his production. Next season is a player option that pays him $19 million and I don't think he'll opt out but we might be able to get the Wolves to move him in a salary dump. That would help solve our starting PG issues and we already have Melton and Okobo for backups. Then with what's left we can go after a PF.
 

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
552,804
Posts
5,403,003
Members
6,313
Latest member
50 year card fan
Top