2018 Draft Grades

[Cheesebeef]

Doncic could be a 6’8” Steve Nash by the time he peaks.

agreed.

by the end of the year, post-All Star Break, he was averaging 23/10/7 in his last 17 games.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yeah, I disagree that he is at his ceiling, but I think the difference between him and Ayton is that Doncic does have physical limitations.

true, but he also has a killer mentality that I don't think can be taught, which is where Ayton is lacking.

 

[Yuma]

uh... why couldn't he put up Harden stats? You realize as the season went on Doncic continued improve his game, putting up more and more impressive stats as the season went on, while Ayton reached a plateau in all of his stats... in Game 1 of the season.

He could. He probably will get better. He's already got a lot of professional miles on that body at a young age. Ayton is a relative amateur compared to Doncic. You may be right. I just think Ayton will be a better value for us over the long haul. Just a hunch.

 

[Yuma]

true, but he also has a killer mentality that I don't think can be taught, which is where Ayton is lacking.

THAT is what Booker has, too. Michael Jordan had it. Certain guys will kill you rather than lose a game.

 

[Chaplin]

Rough reading people that say they are “ok” with taking Ayton and the next minute gushing about how legendary Doncic is going to be.

 

[Yuma]

uh... why couldn't he put up Harden stats? You realize as the season went on Doncic continued improve his game, putting up more and more impressive stats as the season went on, while Ayton reached a plateau in all of his stats... in Game 1 of the season.

You do kind of prove my point here. He's pretty much at ceiling with Harden Stats. Do we think he's going to average 50 points a game for a season like Wilt? LOL!

 

[Cheesebeef]

Rough reading people that say they are “ok” with taking Ayton and the next minute gushing about how legendary Doncic is going to be.

Saying Doncic probably hasn't reached his ceiling, showing how he improved over the course of the season showing he still has room to grow doesn't say Doncic is going to be legendary.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You do kind of prove my point here. He's pretty much at ceiling with Harden Stats. Do we think he's going to average 50 points a game for a season like Wilt? LOL!

Harden averaged 36/10/6 this year. That's a far cry from 23/10/7. Now, that's not to say I think Doncic is going to average those numbers (even though I KNOW someone will accuse me of doing so)... but there's definitely room to grow for his game, especially becoming a better shooter both from 3 and the line, where he seemed to tail off as the year went and he had to carry a much bigger burden on the team after the big trade gutted them of whatever talent was on the team.

 

[Cheesebeef]

THAT is what Booker has, too. Michael Jordan had it. Certain guys will kill you rather than lose a game.

Booker has that mentality on OFFENSE. Haven't seen it much on the other end of the court.

 

[SirStefan32]

true, but he also has a killer mentality that I don't think can be taught, which is where Ayton is lacking.

Oh absolutely! I am a huge Luka fan. I watched almost as many Mavs games as I did Suns games just to watch him play. He is already an amazing player and I can't wait to see how he manages to improve. My comment was not intended to be critical of Doncic or to disparage him in any way. I just wanted to point out that he does have certain limitations.

 

[Yuma]

Harden averaged 36/10/6 this year. That's a far cry from 23/10/7. Now, that's not to say I think Doncic is going to average those numbers (even though I KNOW someone will accuse me of doing so)... but there's definitely room to grow for his game, especially becoming a better shooter both from 3 and the line, where he seemed to tail off as the year went and he had to carry a much bigger burden on the team after the big trade gutted them of whatever talent was on the team.

Again, the rebounds and assists are the same. Just more points scoring is all. Maybe it's semantics, but all he has to do is take as many shots as Harden and score more points at this point. Probably not hard to do if Dallas lets him. I say he's close already to that. You are saying it's room to grow. I guess technically it is. I just don't see it as him being that from from his peak or cap. Just shoot more. easy. LOL.

 

[SirStefan32]

Booker has that mentality on OFFENSE. Haven't seen it much on the other end of the court.

That's a good example of the limitations I was talking about. Neither Booker nor Luka have the athleticism to be elite defenders. They can get better, but neither of them is going to ever be a good defender.

 

[Hoop Head]

Doncic had great stats this year and not even just great stats for a rookie but in general. Despite his stats, the Mavericks sucked and seemed to get worse as the year went on and Doncic's usage went up. I'm not saying Doncic is the cause of that but rather than increasing his individual stats in the future I think Dallas is hoping he becomes more efficient and that his stats lead to more success rather than being fairly empty like they were this season. It's not always about increasing standard stats like points, rebounds, and assists per game. It's more about improving his field goal percentage, assist to turnover ratio, and his defense. If he's able to be more efficient then I think Dallas will be really happy with him but if his stats stay around what they were and the Mavs continue to lose 50+ games then will redrafts continue to place him first? I don't see how they could.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Doncic had great stats this year and not even just great stats for a rookie but in general. Despite his stats, the Mavericks sucked and seemed to get worse as the year went on and Doncic's usage went up. I'm not saying Doncic is the cause of that but rather than increasing his individual stats in the future I think Dallas is hoping he becomes more efficient and that his stats lead to more success rather than being fairly empty like they were this season. It's not always about increasing standard stats like points, rebounds, and assists per game. It's more about improving his field goal percentage, assist to turnover ratio, and his defense. If he's able to be more efficient then I think Dallas will be really happy with him but if his stats stay around what they were and the Mavs continue to lose 50+ games then will redrafts continue to place him first? I don't see how they could.

you realize his usage went up because they gutted the team around him, right? At that point, he was literally a one man show. You take him off that team post-trade and they probably win less games than you count on one hand.

And the idea that his stats were fairly empty this season is really out there. His stats in the clutch were really impressive and he was the main the reason the team jumped 10 wins from last season.

Do you consider Ayton's 16/10 empty stats? His stats went down as the season went on and the team which was atrocious last season somehow ended up WORSE this year.

 

[Cheesebeef]

That's a good example of the limitations I was talking about. Neither Booker nor Luka have the athleticism to be elite defenders. They can get better, but neither of them is going to ever be a good defender.

true... and while Ayton has the physical tools to become an elite defender, his mentality makes it more likely than not that he doesn't have the pitbull in him to do so.

 

[SirStefan32]

true... and while Ayton has the physical tools to become an elite defender, his mentality makes it more likely than not that he doesn't have the pitbull in him to do so.

Agreed.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Again, the rebounds and assists are the same. Just more points scoring is all. Maybe it's semantics, but all he has to do is take as many shots as Harden and score more points at this point. Probably not hard to do if Dallas lets him. I say he's close already to that. You are saying it's room to grow. I guess technically it is. I just don't see it as him being that from from his peak or cap. Just shoot more. easy. LOL.

Just score 13 more points per game over an entire season! Easy! Lol.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Doncic had great stats this year and not even just great stats for a rookie but in general. Despite his stats, the Mavericks sucked and seemed to get worse as the year went on and Doncic's usage went up. I'm not saying Doncic is the cause of that but rather than increasing his individual stats in the future I think Dallas is hoping he becomes more efficient and that his stats lead to more success rather than being fairly empty like they were this season. It's not always about increasing standard stats like points, rebounds, and assists per game. It's more about improving his field goal percentage, assist to turnover ratio, and his defense. If he's able to be more efficient then I think Dallas will be really happy with him but if his stats stay around what they were and the Mavs continue to lose 50+ games then will redrafts continue to place him first? I don't see how they could.

What?!? They traded his whole team away for an injured porzingas!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

you realize his usage went up because they gutted the team around him, right? At that point, he was literally a one man show. You take him off that team post-trade and they probably win less games than you count on one hand.

And the idea that his stats were fairly empty this season is really out there. His stats in the clutch were really impressive and he was the main the reason the team jumped 10 wins from last season.

Do you consider Ayton's 16/10 empty stats? His stats went down as the season went on and the team which was atrocious last season somehow ended up WORSE this year.

Borg

 

[Phrazbit]

Their reasoning for Porter made sense, IMO. He went to the Knicks because they were on a tank year so if he works out for them eventually, all the better, it acknowledges it being a gamble but the only reason he moved up is because they believed a team other than the Nuggets would take the risk of drafting him.

Almost all of the complaints people have are addressed in the article itself. If you're looking solely at where they have a player being selected then I can understand why some of the choices don't make much sense on the surface but if you actually read the little blurbs for each pick then everything makes a lot more sense.

I read it and I think the Knicks would even take Knox again over Porter Jr. Porter fell because of health concerns, since that point he's not played and had another back surgery. I know the Knicks are tanking but the red flags around Porter have only gotten redder.

 

[Yuma]

Just score 13 more points per game over an entire season! Easy! Lol.

He could do it. Just the coaches have to let you jack up that many shots. In Dallas, I could see that happening.

 

[Hoop Head]

What?!? They traded his whole team away for an injured porzingas!

I know that. I was saying that his stats may not increase much but his efficiency should as he gets better. There isn't much room for a statistical increase without putting him in a league of his own as far as comparing what he'd be posting to anyone else and I think that's unlikely but I do believe his efficiency will increase as he improves. So I don't think he's peaked or reached his ceiling, I was simply saying where and how he'd improve in the future, by increasing his efficiency you would see an increase in his advanced stats but perhaps his common stats would stay the same. I didn't say he was at fault for how the team played in the 2nd half of the year. His efficiency was never very good though. When his usage increased his efficiency stayed similar to what it was prior when he was asked to do a little less. I doubt he'll turnover the ball and shoot as low of percentages as he did this year, that's where you can look for improvements rather than seeing him get 2 or 3 more assists or 4-5 more points a game.

 

[BC867]

People keep trotting this out but that mid season article clearly stated they were trying to get Ayton to plant his posterior in the paint and go hard at the hole and draw fouls but he wasn’t doing so. So obviously this narrative that he wasn’t being coached to do so is either a complete fallacy or that player development coach that was quoted just decided to blatantly lie to the interviewer.

So Ayton setting picks 23 feet from the basket, then trying belatedly to get to the hole was his doing?

Even if that were true, a good coaching staff would have resolved it. That's their job!

Either way, it falls on Igor and the lack of a talented big man coach.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I know that. I was saying that his stats may not increase much but his efficiency should as he gets better. There isn't much room for a statistical increase without putting him in a league of his own as far as comparing what he'd be posting to anyone else and I think that's unlikely but I do believe his efficiency will increase as he improves. So I don't think he's peaked or reached his ceiling, I was simply saying where and how he'd improve in the future, by increasing his efficiency you would see an increase in his advanced stats but perhaps his common stats would stay the same. I didn't say he was at fault for how the team played in the 2nd half of the year. His efficiency was never very good though. When his usage increased his efficiency stayed similar to what it was prior when he was asked to do a little less. I doubt he'll turnover the ball and shoot as low of percentages as he did this year, that's where you can look for improvements rather than seeing him get 2 or 3 more assists or 4-5 more points a game.

Ah got it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

So Ayton setting picks 23 feet from the basket, then trying belatedly to get to the hole was his doing?

Even if that were true, a good coaching staff would have resolved it. That's their job!

Either way, it falls on Igor and the lack of a talented big man coach.

Holmes seemed to get back into the paint well.

The issues fall in everyone. You seem to want to point all the blame on the coaches when Ayton has to bear a large portion of the blame.