2019 Free Agency

[1Sun]

You know, if you were to go to a Miami Heat board a year or two ago and asked what they thought of him, you wouldn't get anywhere near a consensus. From what I've read on the RGM Miami board, most fans liked him a lot but were disappointed that he didn't improve as much as they expected and they were greatly disappointed in how much he was costing the team.

And, you really didn't just "simply answer the question", you made it clear that you consider yourself an expert compared to the rest of us because your son is a Heat fan. My son loved anime and manga but surprisingly enough, it didn't make me an expert on Ghost in the Shell.

No, what I made clear is not that I am an "expert", but that I have more insight and knowledge regarding Tyler Johnson than those with no connection to Miami Heat fans, because I was actually paying attention to Tyler Johnson's play before the Suns decided to trade for him. This likely also explains why I was up in arms when the Suns traded for him while others on this board wondered why I cared so much one way or the other.

I cannot speak to whether there was a "consensus" among Heat fans or not, but from what I saw and heard of the Heat while following them for my son's sake, at best Tyler Johnson was a tremendous disappointment after he signed the big contract, and at worst, he was a Brandon-Knight-like cancer, only with better but still disappointing defense.

 

[Mainstreet]

Suns didn't want to pay the cost of Payton and told him. He shut is down.

Sounds like something McD would say directly to a player without thinking about the psyche of the player.

If such is the case and that's the issue, the Suns should revisit the subject.

Payton is a solid point guard when he is motivated. I think he is better than Rubio and a lot of posters liked him. He is worth more than the $3 million or so he was payed last season.

I wouldn't depend on Payton to be the primary point guard though.

He averaged 10.6 points and 7.6 assists last season. Here are his stats.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/paytoel01.html

 

[95pro]

Didn't Payton also have the same regressive pattern with the Magic?

 

[Yuma]

Didn't Payton also have the same regressive pattern with the Magic?

I thought unscientifically remembering a triple double or couple big games, then seeing he settled into the 10 and 7 stats. I remember thinking it was the same thing that happened with us. It seems if he wants to drive to the hole, not many guards can stop him. I know you don't want your guard to drive all the time, but it seemed like he could have used that more in games when his teams hit struggling spots in games.

 

[Ronin]

Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
·
1m

Miami Heat guard Goran Dragic has picked up his $19.2M player option for the 2019-20 season, league sources tell
@TheAthleticNBA
@Stadium
.

 

[Yuma]

Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
·
1m

Miami Heat guard Goran Dragic has picked up his $19.2M player option for the 2019-20 season, league sources tell
@TheAthleticNBA
@Stadium
.

Oh hell yeah! If I was Goran there would be no doubt!

 

[SirStefan32]

Shocking, haha!

 

[Mainstreet]

It's interesting Tyler Johnson hasn't done anything with his $19,245,370 player option as yet.

It's probably coming unless the Suns can figure out a way to do something with it.

 

[Raindog]

The current state of the PG position in the NBA is a lot like that of QB in the NFL. There are very few really good ones, and a lot of mediocre to bad ones are staying employed as a result.

 

[1Sun]

The current state of the PG position in the NBA is a lot like that of QB in the NFL. There are very few really good ones, and a lot of mediocre to bad ones are staying employed as a result.

And you can't compete without a good one...

 

[devilalum]

It's interesting Tyler Johnson hasn't done anything with his $19,245,370 player option as yet.

It's probably coming unless the Suns can figure out a way to do something with it.

Is it possible to sign him to a 2 year $22 million contract then release him?

That would give the Suns an extra $8 million to spend and TJ an extra $3 million in his pocket.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mainstreet]

Is it possible to sign him to a 2 year $22 million contract then release him?

That would give the Suns an extra $8 million to spend and TJ an extra $3 million in his pocket.

The Suns could waive and stretch Tyler Johnson and save even more money if they want to do that.

 

[Hoop Head]

The Suns could waive and stretch Tyler Johnson and save even more money if they want to do that.

I think you're missing what Devilalum suggested. They would actually have more money available to spend now if they signed him to a deal like he suggested because of how stretching works. It's the length of guaranteed years times 2 plus 1. So if we signed him for 2 years and $11 million a year and stretched it, we'd owe him $4.4 million a year for the next 5 years. If we waived him after he picked up the $19 million dollar option then we'd be paying him $6.3 million over the next 3 years. So we would free up an extra $2 million in cap space this summer but it we'd be on the hook to pay him for longer. The Suns would be paying him $3 million extra to sign that so we can stretch it rather than picking up his option.

It's not about what the Suns save, it's about the cap space the Suns could make.


I don't know if that would be allowed under league rules or not, I can't see why it wouldn't be allowed but I could definitely see the league amending their rules so teams could not do that any longer if we managed to pull it off. That puts teams in a position to cheat their way into extra cap space and other owners would complain.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think you're missing what Devilalum suggested. They would actually have more money available to spend now if they signed him to a deal like he suggested because of how stretching works. It's the length of guaranteed years times 2 plus 1. So if we signed him for 2 years and $11 million a year and stretched it, we'd owe him $4.4 million a year for the next 5 years. If we waived him after he picked up the $19 million dollar option then we'd be paying him $6.3 million over the next 3 years. So we would free up an extra $2 million in cap space this summer but it we'd be on the hook to pay him for longer. The Suns would be paying him $3 million extra to sign that so we can stretch it rather than picking up his option.

It's not about what the Suns save, it's about the cap space the Suns could make.


I don't know if that would be allowed under league rules or not, I can't see why it wouldn't be allowed but I could definitely see the league amending their rules so teams could not do that any longer if we managed to pull it off. That puts teams in a position to cheat their way into extra cap space and other owners would complain.

It's interesting for sure. Do you know of teams that have done this particular maneuver with a player to create more salary space?

 

[Folster]

It's interesting Tyler Johnson hasn't done anything with his $19,245,370 player option as yet.

It's probably coming unless the Suns can figure out a way to do something with it.

His contract was extremely back-loaded by the Nets to try to dissuade Miami from matching. No way he bypasses this contract year as it's nearly 40% of the total $50M contract value.

 

[Mainstreet]

His contract was extremely back-loaded by the Nets to try to dissuade Miami from matching. No way he bypasses this contract year as it's nearly 40% of the total $50M contract value.

Unless the Suns can offer him a contract he likes better, I think he picks up his option as well. It's hard to see the Suns increasing their investment in him this summer.

 

[Yuma]

Unless the Suns can offer him a contract he likes better, I think he picks up his option as well. It's hard to see the Suns increasing their investment in him this summer.

To me we aren't freeing up enough space relative to the huge amount of cap space we have the following season. I'd rather suffer now, hope we improve our record, then have a bunch of cap space to get a bigger free agent possibly.

 

[Hoop Head]

It's interesting for sure. Do you know of teams that have done this particular maneuver with a player to create more salary space?

I don't. It would take a lot of trust on the players part and I think it might also violate the CBA. It is agreeing to a contract outside of how contracts are supposed to be negotiated so that's one potential issue. The player would only have a handshake deal that the team would offer the new contract and then waive them. They would have zero recourse if the team said, "Too bad, you opted out." and didn't offer the new deal or didn't release them from the new deal.

 

[Mainstreet]

To me we aren't freeing up enough space relative to the huge amount of cap space we have the following season. I'd rather suffer now, hope we improve our record, then have a bunch of cap space to get a bigger free agent possibly.

It depends on what that money can buy I guess. I'd like to keep Tyler and use his contract space for a top free agent next summer. Also the Suns might be sign him to a more reasonable salary after his contract expires if it works out well in Phoenix.

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't. It would take a lot of trust on the players part and I think it might also violate the CBA. It is agreeing to a contract outside of how contracts are supposed to be negotiated so that's one potential issue. The player would only have a handshake deal that the team would offer the new contract and then waive them. They would have zero recourse if the team said, "Too bad, you opted out." and didn't offer the new deal or didn't release them from the new deal.

Danny Manning is one of the last handshake deals that I can remember although I'm sure there are more.

 

[Phrazbit]

The most recent known attempts at "hand shake" deals, both back fired terribly for their teams.

The Wolves signed Joe Smith to an under valued contract with the agreement to pay him way more the next year. The league got wind of it, voided the contract and took like 4 1st round picks away from the Wolves.

The other I can remember is, back when 2nd round picks had screwed up RFA clauses, the Cavs made a deal with Carlos Boozer that they'd release him from his contract early so they could resign him while they had the space, they did and he went and signed a big fat contract with the Jazz.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Danny Manning is one of the last handshake deals that I can remember although I'm sure there are more.

Carlos Boozer ended all that.

 

[JCSunsfan]

KD’s injury has a huge trickle down effect for free agency. I think he is more likely to stay with the Warriors now. He won’t play for a year, so who makes an investment if not the Warriors. The Lakers cannot afford to lose a year.

 

[Yuma]

KD’s injury has a huge trickle down effect for free agency. I think he is more likely to stay with the Warriors now. He won’t play for a year, so who makes an investment if not the Warriors. The Lakers cannot afford to lose a year.

Conjecture on TV is Lebron trying to get Kawhi to joing him and AD. I guess they figure AD going there eventually.

 

[Cheesebeef]

KD’s injury has a huge trickle down effect for free agency. I think he is more likely to stay with the Warriors now. He won’t play for a year, so who makes an investment if not the Warriors. The Lakers cannot afford to lose a year.

Same with Klay's ACL tear.

What the hell do the Warriors do here? sign TWO MAX contracts to TWO guys who just suffered serious injuries?!

The Lakers are getting AD. I don't want it to happen, but I just know it will.