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Less than Rubio or Collison will be a huge letdown for fans.
2019 Free Agency
- Thread starter JCSunsfan
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Less than Rubio or Collison will be a huge letdown for fans.
With all of the talk of needing someone next to Booker who can hit a jump shot, if they sign Cory Joseph, whose shot is as ugly as Lonzo Ball's and Melton's, we know that the true motivation is $$$.
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The Suns should consider how the fans will view it as the same old Suns.
GatorAZ
feed hopkins
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34 years old...
The next Tyson Chandler...
If he could be had for the MLE I'd actually prefer him for 1 or 2 years instead of Randle. He could play alongside Ayton and teach him a lot. Not only is he a big but he's similar to Draymond Green in how he helped facilitate a lot of offense for Boston. He averaged 4.2 assists last year and 4.6 assists throughout his 3 years in Boston to go with 7 boards and 13.5 ppg while shooting 50% from the field and 38% from 3. Of course we have more pressing needs so he's not a realistic option for us, regardless of cost.
I don't think he'll see a multi year deal for that much. He just turned 33 on June 6th and he has stayed relatively healthy throughout his career but he has slowed down with age, which I believe is part of why he's more of a high post Center/facilitator now. Depending on where he ends up he could make a big impact on a team.
Folster
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It's seems that everyone is hung up on the point guard position for the Suns in free agency and the draft.
Gambo is pointing to drafting Coby White and signing a modest veteran point guard. That sounds fairly underwhelming to those expecting big moves and trades of Warren and JJ to free up cap space. No DLo, no Holiday, no Brogdon, or Ball?
What if a power forward is what we are trying to free up cash to pursue and not a PG like DLo? What about Tobias Harris? No chance right? Maybe we need to pay more attention to connections that our front office and coaches have to give hints on possible free agent targets.
Jeff Bower traded for him in Detroit. Monty just recently coached him in Philly.
Bower is also connected to a couple of point guards who are of note this off-season. He drafted Collison in New Orleans and Dinwiddie in Detroit.
How would you feel about losing Warren and JJ, but adding Collison, Harris, and White?
Collison, White
Booker, Johnson
Oubre, Bridges
Harris, ?
Ayton, ?
Gambo is pointing to drafting Coby White and signing a modest veteran point guard. That sounds fairly underwhelming to those expecting big moves and trades of Warren and JJ to free up cap space. No DLo, no Holiday, no Brogdon, or Ball?
What if a power forward is what we are trying to free up cash to pursue and not a PG like DLo? What about Tobias Harris? No chance right? Maybe we need to pay more attention to connections that our front office and coaches have to give hints on possible free agent targets.
Jeff Bower traded for him in Detroit. Monty just recently coached him in Philly.
Bower is also connected to a couple of point guards who are of note this off-season. He drafted Collison in New Orleans and Dinwiddie in Detroit.
How would you feel about losing Warren and JJ, but adding Collison, Harris, and White?
Collison, White
Booker, Johnson
Oubre, Bridges
Harris, ?
Ayton, ?
I like that more than Randle and Russell, a lot more. Harris isn't the rebounder that Randle is but I think he can improve. He'd be a good stretch 4 and he also isn't a PF who can be slid to Center so we're forced to play small, he can actually be slid over to SF and we could play big. I think Harris has earned his payday compared to Randle who hasn't, a lot of his contract would be based on what you hope he becomes.
I would feel like we don't believe that "Defense wins championships". While Tobias isn't a bad defender, he's not really good either. Collison IS a bad defender (#42 for PGs), and next to Book we'd be the single worst Defensive back court in the NBA. (Same with Russell).
Toronto played D and won a championship.
GS played D and won a bunch of championships.
All of LeBron's teams played D and won championships.
The Spurs in 2014 played D and won a championship.
Heck, even the Mavericks played D and won a championship.
It's just extremely rare for a team to win a championship and not commit to D.
The other side of the coin is also true. You have to be a top Offensive team to win as well.
By my count the last 10 Champions averaged league ranks were:
Ortg: 5.0
Drtg: 5.7
Essentially that means that to win a championship you need to be top 10 in BOTH categories (only GS in 2018 and LA in 2009 weren't top 10; both were 11th)
If our goal is to eventually win a championship... with Book, it's nearly impossible to see that happening with a bad defender at PG. So guys like Collison and Russell CAN NOT be seriously considered if you want to win it all. (As much as I can't stand Kyle Lowry and think he's a whiny complainer, I'd rather have him because he gives us a shot at winning with his incredible D.)
This team as it stands with Book and Ayton is eventually, hopefully, going to be a good offensive team. They have pieces already in place to "potentially" become a top 10 O. But we have very little hope of becoming a top 10 D without some serious additions.
That's why I'd be all in on landing Jrue and Young. Starting:
Holliday (D and O)
Book (O)
Bridges (D)
Young (a little bit of everything)
Ayton (O)
has enough O and D to eventually become something to reckon with. If it means trading JJ, Warren, Johnson,#6, 3 future 1sts, and not signing Oubre... fine, do it. Let's put a team together that ACTUALLY has a chance of doing something.
JonnySuns
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Hey fellas, I don't post much at all. I'm a UK based Suns fan so my coverage of the NBA is limited so hopefully I won't make a fool of myself with anything I post, if I do then please bear with me.
Anyway, I need to have a bit of a rant about Gambo and his recent "info".
So besides the fact that he constantly repeats everything he says at least 3 times - which I won't dwell on - I feel like he's defo giving mixed messages and I'm starting to feel like whilst I believe he has heard what he's heard and he's passing that on in good faith, I'm not sure I believe the actual info itself and wonder if it's a lot of smoke and mirrors.
He said the Suns want a combo guard at PG so that they can facilitate but also knock down open shots, taking the burden off of Book, allowing him to get more open looks himself. Makes sense.
He said previously that the likely options at PG are Rubio, Cory Joseph, Collison, Pat Bev (heading for Lakers now possibly). However he had previously said Rubio wasn't an option but now he is. Slight problem is that Rubio isn't a great shooter. Neither is Corey Joseph, who he has regularly said he likes. Both of those players completely contradict this combo guard plan that the Suns apparently have.
In terms of DLo, I can understand why he wouldn't necessarily be considered a great fit due to the lack of D etc but all Gambo has said so far is that he hasn't heard that DLo is an option for the Suns. He hasn't actually said that he's off the table. He also describes him as ball dominant but Russell averaged 7 assists per games last season. Surely it's also fair to say that just because he played a certain way in BKN, that doesn't mean he wouldn't be adaptable to a new system in PHX, particularly with his best bud alongside him and a coach like Monty showing how he can be a more rounded player.
I'm not entirely sure who I'd like to see at PG but personally it feels like DLo would make a big statement for this organisation and whilst the D might not be great to start with, wouldn't it be cool to have him and Book setting each other up and equally if they started to dominate games it would space the floor better to allow Ayton the room to do his thing too?
I dunno, just a few thoughts with not many ppl over here to talk to about it.
Anyway, I need to have a bit of a rant about Gambo and his recent "info".
So besides the fact that he constantly repeats everything he says at least 3 times - which I won't dwell on - I feel like he's defo giving mixed messages and I'm starting to feel like whilst I believe he has heard what he's heard and he's passing that on in good faith, I'm not sure I believe the actual info itself and wonder if it's a lot of smoke and mirrors.
He said the Suns want a combo guard at PG so that they can facilitate but also knock down open shots, taking the burden off of Book, allowing him to get more open looks himself. Makes sense.
He said previously that the likely options at PG are Rubio, Cory Joseph, Collison, Pat Bev (heading for Lakers now possibly). However he had previously said Rubio wasn't an option but now he is. Slight problem is that Rubio isn't a great shooter. Neither is Corey Joseph, who he has regularly said he likes. Both of those players completely contradict this combo guard plan that the Suns apparently have.
In terms of DLo, I can understand why he wouldn't necessarily be considered a great fit due to the lack of D etc but all Gambo has said so far is that he hasn't heard that DLo is an option for the Suns. He hasn't actually said that he's off the table. He also describes him as ball dominant but Russell averaged 7 assists per games last season. Surely it's also fair to say that just because he played a certain way in BKN, that doesn't mean he wouldn't be adaptable to a new system in PHX, particularly with his best bud alongside him and a coach like Monty showing how he can be a more rounded player.
I'm not entirely sure who I'd like to see at PG but personally it feels like DLo would make a big statement for this organisation and whilst the D might not be great to start with, wouldn't it be cool to have him and Book setting each other up and equally if they started to dominate games it would space the floor better to allow Ayton the room to do his thing too?
I dunno, just a few thoughts with not many ppl over here to talk to about it.
I'm not sure if you've seen how it seems most of what Gambo is saying is being directly contradicted by the reporting of the Suns beat writer with AZCentral. I think there is something to that. I think Gambo is floating a lot of ideas that won't happen on purpose, like he's been directed to in order to build value somewhere or take eyes off of someone so when the Suns do make their move it comes out of left deal. Gambo is tasked with giving misinformation because they know he'll scream from the rooftops he heard X while the Suns actually plan for Y. That's my theory at least, whatever Gambo is saying the Suns will do, we'll end up seeing the opposite. I guess we'll learn what it is on draft day.
JonnySuns
Newbie
Thanks for this. Makes me feel a bit better.
I haven't been on AZCentral for ages because of the need for a subscription and I'd used up my "free reads" as it were. I'll go take a look.
I had hoped he might be on a deliberate move to divert attention away from who we're really interested in so fingers crossed.
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If you clear your cache and cookies it should allow you to view more articles, that's what it does for me. It will say I have 3 articles left and I clear my browsing history and cache and then I'm back to 8 articles or whatever it is. You can also use different browsers for more articles, like Chrome gets you 8, or however many, and Firefox will do that same, and so will Safari.
Here is an article from the Suns beat writer saying the exact opposite of Gambo as far as the #6 pick, Jackson, and Warren are not being shopped.
https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...rren-josh-jackson-no-6-pick-trade/1481883001/
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I think there is what the Suns want and what the Suns can afford.
This is probably why we keep hearing the names of Rubio, Joseph, Collison and Beverley because they are more affordable options.
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It boggles my mind if a 33 year Al Horford declines a $30 million player option with the Celtics. Obviously someone must be willing to pay him more but that's a lot of money.
So weird how the initial reports were that he was going to sign a new contract with the Celtics, then quickly went to Horford's leaving the Celtics. Celtics will most likely lose Kyrie and Horford now, a complete turn of events considering they had those two players and were the favorites to land AD. Now their stash of picks hardly mean anything with the new draft odds.
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I keep waiting for the counter moves from the Celtics which most assuredly will come. Ainge will do something.
SirStefan32
Krycek, Alex Krycek
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Ouchie-Z-Clown
I'm better than Mulli!
I suspect he’ll have a backup plan. But sometimes you just get hamstrung by circumstances outta your control. This could just be a terrible offseason for the Celtics.
But only Collison and Beverley are upgrades over the dreck we currently have.
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Maybe I have too much confidence in Ainge.
Something had to have happened between Horford and the Celtics for negotiations to cease as quickly as they started. Just seems like the cast of youngsters drove away Kyrie and Horford. Just guessing on my part, but why would you two main guys not want to continue and build on winning.
overseascardfan
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I would be okay with Collison if we end up with Jerome. Maybe work out a deal with NO for Randle for Warren, Jackson & MIL pick Then trade #6 to ATL for #10 & #17. Take BPA at #10 and Jerome at #17. Use #32 on a back up PF or C.
Edit: Forgot Randle was a FA, never mind trade with NO.
Edit: Forgot Randle was a FA, never mind trade with NO.
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It's been reported that Horford is opting out because he feels he can get a multi-year deal at $25+ million a year and that's a bit crazy at his age. Boston probably had a lower price point set since he's not as valuable if Kyrie leaves and he felt they lowballed him. I'll be surprised if he can get more than a 2 year deal at $20 million a year but word is he wants 4 years and $100 million, which I can't see him getting.
