2019 NBA Playoff Discussion

[Russ Smith]

Re: letting the inbound roll. It’s not a basketball play so they should just make it illegal and call it a turnover after a few seconds, when it’s clear it’s intentional. I don’t think it would be missed.

To be clear I'm not fauling the Clips for doing it I'm faulting Kerr for allowing them to do it. in one of the games late Draymond starting picking up in the backcourt to stop it and the Warriors pulled away. They were getting a longer shot clock every possession by doing that, with an offense as efficient as the Clips is, 3-4 extra seconds is huge and the Warriors let them do it the whole series.

 

[Hoop Head]

Re: letting the inbound roll. It’s not a basketball play so they should just make it illegal and call it a turnover after a few seconds, when it’s clear it’s intentional. I don’t think it would be missed.

I highly doubt they'd make a rule against it since it is so easy to stop. If a team is getting torched because they keep allowing their opponent to do it then that's on them. It doesn't really give that much of an advantage and to stop a team from doing it all that needs to be done is a defender needs to pick up their man just before half court or they need to make a play for the ball.

The only way I think the league might make a change to the rules with doing that is if players start colliding while going for the ball and a star gets hurt. Even then, it'll probably require more than 1 star to get hurt for them to step in.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I highly doubt they'd make a rule against it since it is so easy to stop. If a team is getting torched because they keep allowing their opponent to do it then that's on them. It doesn't really give that much of an advantage and to stop a team from doing it all that needs to be done is a defender needs to pick up their man just before half court or they need to make a play for the ball.

The only way I think the league might make a change to the rules with doing that is if players start colliding while going for the ball and a star gets hurt. Even then, it'll probably require more than 1 star to get hurt for them to step in.

Actually, in the NBA it is not "so easy to stop", quite the contrary IMO. It's easy to draw a foul or be picked off trying to defend that far away from the basket. In a league that protects the perimeter players this can be a real challenge to deal with - especially if the other team has someone like Beverley (or Chris Paul) that excels at creating contact and has the speed to take advantage of a defender 50 feet from the basket. There are more and more players developing their shots out to Curry range for the same reason, it's quite difficult to defend effectively with today's rules.

 

[Superbone]

I have no issue with the rolling inbound play. It's up to the defense to make the offense pick up the ball. The defenders should have the advantage. They could dive on the ball and steal it while the offense has to pick it up off the floor and start dribbling.

 

[Superbone]

Actually, in the NBA it is not "so easy to stop", quite the contrary IMO. It's easy to draw a foul or be picked off trying to defend that far away from the basket. In a league that protects the perimeter players this can be a real challenge to deal with - especially if the other team has someone like Beverley (or Chris Paul) that excels at creating contact and has the speed to take advantage of a defender 50 feet from the basket. There are more and more players developing their shots out to Curry range for the same reason, it's quite difficult to defend effectively with today's rules.

On this, we do not agree.

 

[Western Font]

To be clear I'm not fauling the Clips for doing it I'm faulting Kerr for allowing them to do it. in one of the games late Draymond starting picking up in the backcourt to stop it and the Warriors pulled away. They were getting a longer shot clock every possession by doing that, with an offense as efficient as the Clips is, 3-4 extra seconds is huge and the Warriors let them do it the whole series.

No worries, and I don’t have a problem with anyone’s position on it, really. Some good points made here. In fact, I’ve re-thought my own position reading them. Instead of a rule against it, just start the clock when the ball goes inbounds instead of when it’s touched.

Then there’s no point in “walking the dog” throughout the game to conserve time. I don’t think people mind as much at the end of the game, when it becomes something more like calling a timeout to advance the ball, or an intentional foul. (Which can still get boring themselves.)

 

[AzStevenCal]

On this, we do not agree.

I'm okay with that, just don't do it again. California is a big state but it's not THAT big.

 

[Superbone]

I'm okay with that, just don't do it again. California is a big state but it's not THAT big.

Ha! The only reason I said that is because I find myself almost always agreeing with you. Sometimes I get confused if you are me. In fact, we share the same first name. Well, I guess I'm sharing it as I believe you had it before me. Other than the fact that you spell it wrong!

 

[Superbone]

The rolling the ball thing reminds me of another thing that has always bothered me in NBA basketball. When there's 20 seconds left in a game or quarter even, why does the defense let the offense dribble the ball at the top of the key with no pressure and allow them to dictate when they make their move for the final shot? If I were the coach, I'd have them pressure them the whole time so they can't get comfortable before making their final play for the last shot.

 

[Yuma]

Buddenholzer just got outcoached by the Celtics staff. The Celtics had a "mini-zone" each time back. They created a three main wall basically to get the Freak to shoot jumpers or pass the ball. They disguised it well so that the Bucks didn't notice it, or had no counter move prepared. Then when it was slowed down to half court, Al Horford used his forearm to redirect the Freak so he couldn't do his spin move to get open or dunk. The Celtics really coached well.

 

[Hoop Head]

The rolling the ball thing reminds me of another thing that has always bothered me in NBA basketball. When there's 20 seconds left in a game or quarter even, why does the defense let the offense dribble the ball at the top of the key with no pressure and allow them to dictate when they make their move for the final shot? If I were the coach, I'd have them pressure them the whole time so they can't get comfortable before making their final play for the last shot.

I think that has more to do with fear of fouling. You don't double in that situation because someone will be left open, we see that happen to the Suns quite a bit. They'll double the ball handler and give up a great look by a wide open teammate, the Wizards vs Suns game comes to mind when Booker was guarding Beal and Bender doubled which allowed Thomas Bryant to get open. I don't think you want the player to pass though.

If you pressure the ball handler too much then there is a chance they can slip past their defender. By being a few feet away you can have your arms extended and take away more space. If the ball handler puts the ball on the floor and tries to make a move it only takes a small shift to get in front of them, the ball handler basically walks right into coverage. The defender doesn't know which way they'll go so they need to guard both and having a few feet between them allows for them to lean into either side to try and stop them. You want the ball handler to take a shot themselves, if anyone does, and the further from the basket they are the lower their percentage generally is. So as they closer you close the gap more and more but that also has to do with having less room behind you, as the defender, and having help on the sides because your teammates are there.

I think that's really the only way you can guard it. I may be misunderstanding what you're describing, I'm not sure. I looked at the Lillard 3 over George because I think that applies to what you're saying. If the ball handler shoots form that far out then you're grateful you didn't get them a closer look. It's not often players drain 40 footers like that. I know there was debate about that shot in particular, it wasn't a great look for Lillard. Some say it was but I still take PG-13's side in that he didn't give him space to get a better or closer look and a player taking a 40 footer is a bad shot, regardless of his percentage from out there. His percentage from out there isn't as good as it is right on the 3pt line.


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[Russ Smith]

Harden finding out if the ref doesn't reward you for kickign your leg out and falling back it's a lot harder. To be fair Klay made contact on 2 of those but both there the same Harden kicked the right leg forward and fell back. And they made up for it with a touch foul on Curry and a quick T on Draymond for pointing out the ref standing right there didn't call it.

Harden is so hard for the refs, there's so much deception going on

 

[Russ Smith]

Both teams go into the locker room mad at the refs. The rockets because Harden isn't getting the fallback fouls, and the Warriors because they keep reaching in on Durant and not getting called so he's got 4 turnovers the Warriors have shot a total of 4 Ft's 2 of them in the last 4 seconds that Iggy missed.

For the half Rockets shot an NBA record 28 threes, the Warriors took only 9, and yet Houston shot 9 more ft's.

Great game you can see why I think the Rockets will win the series, very tough matchup for the Warriors with 3 guards who can make 3's and a stretch 4 who's really a 3 in either Tucker or House.

 

[Hoop Head]

Great game you can see why I think the Rockets will win the series, very tough matchup for the Warriors with 3 guards who can make 3's and a stretch 4 who's really a 3 in either Tucker or House.

I'm surprised you're still saying the Rockets will win. I'd be really surprised if they did. They don't have homecourt this year and I think they needed that to stand a chance. The Rockets this year are not better than last year. Perhaps the Warriors aren't as good as last year either but I think the Rockets lost more than the Warriors did. Complacency is the biggest opponent of the Warriors right now.

I think we could see this over in 5 if Golden State can keep homecourt through these first 2 games. I don't think it will go further than 6. The Clippers helped wake the Warriors up. They learned a lesson already about taking your opponent lightly.

 

[Russ Smith]

refs just lost it end ofthe 3rd and damn near every call went to the Warriors. I think the refs are getting tired of players trying to trick them. They gave the foul to Looney andthen saw on the replay that Harden had hooked Looney and pulled his arm and then they did a makeup call and tehn 2 Ts on the Rockets. Really bad 3rd quarter for the refs

 

[Russ Smith]

I'm surprised you're still saying the Rockets will win. I'd be really surprised if they did. They don't have homecourt this year and I think they needed that to stand a chance. The Rockets this year are not better than last year. Perhaps the Warriors aren't as good as last year either but I think the Rockets lost more than the Warriors did. Complacency is the biggest opponent of the Warriors right now.

I think we could see this over in 5 if Golden State can keep homecourt through these first 2 games. I don't think it will go further than 6. The Clippers helped wake the Warriors up. They learned a lesson already about taking your opponent lightly.

I think their starting 5 is better. Paul is healthy, Harden is better, Capela is better and I think they won't have to worry about a playoff choke like with Ariza last year.

THe Warriors bench fell off a cliff although they've been getting great play from Looney.

 

[GatorAZ]

Why does is seem like Curry is playing hurt every postseason?

 

[Russ Smith]

Just too much for the refs to try and keep track of if this whole series goes like this everyone's going to be exhausted.

At the end there I thought Paul fouled Durant on the pokeaway just like Currys' 5th, then I thought Green fouled harden on the 3, and then I thought there was a pull down on the rebound that gave Houston the ball. I don't think Klay fouled Paul he was there Paul left his feet for some reason and just knocked Klay down, that was a no call.

 

[Russ Smith]

Why does is seem like Curry is playing hurt every postseason?

He always is. One of the things they've been talking about is this is exhausting for the guys like Steph and Klay who've been to 4 straight finals because of all the games.
If you missed the last game both Klay and Steph stepped on someone's foot and rolled an ankle. They said Klay's was worse and I thought that was pretty obvious today he couldn't elevate and had no burst.

If you'd told me those 2 would play that poorly I'd say they lose for sure. Just a crazy game to officiate all the was that an air space foul or did Harden kick his legs into the defender, the grab of Looney's arm, I don't think the refs have caught on to Paul yet either he grabs the offensive player with his left hand while reaching in with the right Durant and Kerr were complaining about it the whole game.

I just hold my breath everytime Harden gets the ball you just know he's going to draw a foul

 

[Russ Smith]

Per the local post game tv show don't be surprised if the NBA hands down some fines to the Rockets for post game behavior in and around the locker room. Supposedly some damage to the room and a couple of exchanges with fans that could result in fines.

and it's only game 1.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Houston are the Seattle Seahawks of the NBA...they commit constant fouls (on both offense and defense) and dare the refs to call them...

 

[Bufalay]

Why were shumpert and nene in the game at the end?

 

[Russ Smith]

Houston are the Seattle Seahawks of the NBA...they commit constant fouls (on both offense and defense) and dare the refs to call them...

They have 4 guys who are remarkable at reaching in for pokeaways without fouling, harden, Tucker, Gordon and the master Paul. Harden just has great hands and Tucker is a terrific defender. I think Gordon is underrated. Paul is great but again he does this misdirection thing where he pulls with the left hand but not enough to get a foul, but while the ref is looking at that to see is that a foul, he fouls with the right hand and knocks the ball away.

I would say in this game the Warriors probably got the most advantage with some of the fouls on shots not called but it's so hard to say. If they ever call harden for the pushoff with the right hand I'll be happy

 

[GatorAZ]

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[Russ Smith]

Jazz players on Twitter complaining if they got the ability to contest shots the Warriors did things might be different.

I fully expect that will change in game 2. They need to clarify the rule, the "air space" has to be where an offensive player would reasonably land, not where he's going to land if you kick your feet forwards and land on your butt.