2020-21 Around the NBA Thread

[Russ Smith]

Eh, what do you think his point is, Russ?

That the way the NBA works, it protects the teams and the league but not the players.

It's ok for the team to say we're going to trade Drummond so we're sitting him, and if he complains, or doesn't just go along with it, he's a bad guy. It's unlikely in Drummond's case, only his 2nd year in Cleveland, and it's Cleveland, but it's possible he really likes being in Cleveland and being traded adversely impacts him. That's been the case in teh past, but if the player speaks out, he's a problem child and often gets fined.

note I don't support what Harden did, as Draymond said he literally let himself get out of shape and dogged it to get traded, I don't like that, but I think the point Draymond was trying to make was if a team wants to trade you, unless you have a no trade, they trade you. If YOU want to be traded, for whatever reason, if they don't really want to trade you there's only so much you can do, so Harden went to extremes to force it.

Again I don't totally agree I think there are 2 sides to it, but in general right now the rules favor the league and team not the players. The exception of course being the players make a TON of money. I can be unhappy being traded if I'm Drummond because I'm getting 28.7 million.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That the way the NBA works, it protects the teams and the league but not the players.

It's ok for the team to say we're going to trade Drummond so we're sitting him, and if he complains, or doesn't just go along with it, he's a bad guy. It's unlikely in Drummond's case, only his 2nd year in Cleveland, and it's Cleveland, but it's possible he really likes being in Cleveland and being traded adversely impacts him. That's been the case in teh past, but if the player speaks out, he's a problem child and often gets fined.

note I don't support what Harden did, as Draymond said he literally let himself get out of shape and dogged it to get traded, I don't like that, but I think the point Draymond was trying to make was if a team wants to trade you, unless you have a no trade, they trade you. If YOU want to be traded, for whatever reason, if they don't really want to trade you there's only so much you can do, so Harden went to extremes to force it.

Again I don't totally agree I think there are 2 sides to it, but in general right now the rules favor the league and team not the players. The exception of course being the players make a TON of money. I can be unhappy being traded if I'm Drummond because I'm getting 28.7 million.

I think the mistake that draymond, and you, are making is that for some reason y’all think the power should be equal. It’s not. It’s an employer-employee relationship. One side is paying you to be a good, producing, professional employee. And as long as they are paying you they are keeping up their end of the bargain. You need to do likewise in keeping up your end of the bargain: produce and be professional. Not much different from other employer-employee relationships. The only reason this gets any press is bc pro athletes wield a disproportionate amount of power in their employee-employer relationships at present.

 

[Mainstreet]

D'Angelo Russell is expected to miss 4-6 weeks. He reportedly will undergo arthroscopic surgery to left knee.

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[Cheesebeef]

D'Angelo Russell is expected to miss 4-6 weeks. He reportedly will undergo arthroscopic surgery to left knee.

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KAT demands a trade at the end of this season.

 

[Mainstreet]

KAT demands a trade at the end of this season.

The odds appear good.

 

[Hoop Head]

KAT demands a trade at the end of this season.

He missed a lot of time because he had COVID, having just returned in the last week or so. I read an article recently where he spoke on his bout with Covid and in addition to losing his mom, almost losing his dad, he's lost 6 other family members. The other 6 were all uncles, aunts, and first cousins. He was talking up how much the team and organization has helped him through all of that. I was shocked to hear he's lost that many people and even bothered returning to play this season. Dude has had a really bad year but the way he spoke about the Wolves it seemed like they're the only stable thing he's had during this pandemic so I'd be surprised if he asks out, even if it is a garbage fire of a team.

 

[Chaplin]

He missed a lot of time because he had COVID, having just returned in the last week or so. I read an article recently where he spoke on his bout with Covid and in addition to losing his mom, almost losing his dad, he's lost 6 other family members. The other 6 were all uncles, aunts, and first cousins. He was talking up how much the team and organization has helped him through all of that. I was shocked to hear he's lost that many people and even bothered returning to play this season. Dude has had a really bad year but the way he spoke about the Wolves it seemed like they're the only stable thing he's had during this pandemic so I'd be surprised if he asks out, even if it is a garbage fire of a team.

I’d put money on him thinking about playing on a good team with Devin Booker.

 

[Cheesebeef]

He missed a lot of time because he had COVID, having just returned in the last week or so. I read an article recently where he spoke on his bout with Covid and in addition to losing his mom, almost losing his dad, he's lost 6 other family members. The other 6 were all uncles, aunts, and first cousins. He was talking up how much the team and organization has helped him through all of that. I was shocked to hear he's lost that many people and even bothered returning to play this season. Dude has had a really bad year but the way he spoke about the Wolves it seemed like they're the only stable thing he's had during this pandemic so I'd be surprised if he asks out, even if it is a garbage fire of a team.

I’m just thinking he might need a change of scenery after one of the most hellacious years of personal grief I can ever imagine. Like a clean slate or something.

But the above could totally be on point.

I truly feel awful for that guy. That is so much loss to deal with in such a short amount of time.

 

[Russ Smith]

I think the mistake that draymond, and you, are making is that for some reason y’all think the power should be equal. It’s not. It’s an employer-employee relationship. One side is paying you to be a good, producing, professional employee. And as long as they are paying you they are keeping up their end of the bargain. You need to do likewise in keeping up your end of the bargain: produce and be professional. Not much different from other employer-employee relationships. The only reason this gets any press is bc pro athletes wield a disproportionate amount of power in their employee-employer relationships at present.

Not equal but I do think it's too one sided.

I'm biased I grew up a Warriors fan when Franklin Mieuli was the owner. The reason they went 40 years between titles was Mieuli crapped the bed over money. He not only lost Jamaal Wilkes to FA, he lost him to a team in his own conference the Lakers. He let Rick Barry leave over money, Gus Williams, Phil Smith. He traded Parrish and the draft pick that became McHale because Parrish wanted to win and was fed up with the Warriors being cheap and him having to carry the franchise. Just this weekend they played a long interview with Al Attles and Scotty Stirling who was the Warriors GM at the time. It was taped from 20 years ago and it explained the trade. The Warriors wanted McHale to team with Parrish but they were concerned Parrish would not sign a new contract and leave as a FA, he'd even talked retiring he was so fed up with the cheap ways of the Warriors. They also wanted Parrish to be more of a low post banger and Stirling said in the end we decided it's easier to trade Parrish, than trade the whole front line. Boston wanted McHale but 1st overall was too early to take him, so they got McHale at 3 and Parrish, teh Warriors got the first pick, JB Carroll, and 13th pick Rickey Brown. The worst part is if they had just not done that deal the next year they got Purvis Short, one pick ahead of Larry Bird who of course was still in college. So if they had not panicked they would have had Parrish, McHale and Short, not Parrish, McHale and Bird of course but the Celtics dynasty wouldn't have happened without Parrish and McHale.

Jim Barnett used to play for the Warriors and was on tv for them for ages. He told a story once where he had a long talk with Attles and they discussed that 2-3 year period where they lost all the talent. Gus Williams played 2 years for them they let him walk as a FA, the next year they traded Parrish. If you just replay all that, and I know you can't assume draft picks stay the same, but they could have had Gus, Parrish, McHale and Short, all 28 or under at the same time. That's a championship contending team, instead they were horrible for decades.

So I've seen what bad ownership and players are always expendable can do to a franchise.

I know that sort of ineptness doesn't really happen anymore in the NBA but I do see some of Draymond's point that the power is too one sided

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Not equal but I do think it's too one sided.

I'm biased I grew up a Warriors fan when Franklin Mieuli was the owner. The reason they went 40 years between titles was Mieuli crapped the bed over money. He not only lost Jamaal Wilkes to FA, he lost him to a team in his own conference the Lakers. He let Rick Barry leave over money, Gus Williams, Phil Smith. He traded Parrish and the draft pick that became McHale because Parrish wanted to win and was fed up with the Warriors being cheap and him having to carry the franchise. Just this weekend they played a long interview with Al Attles and Scotty Stirling who was the Warriors GM at the time. It was taped from 20 years ago and it explained the trade. The Warriors wanted McHale to team with Parrish but they were concerned Parrish would not sign a new contract and leave as a FA, he'd even talked retiring he was so fed up with the cheap ways of the Warriors. They also wanted Parrish to be more of a low post banger and Stirling said in the end we decided it's easier to trade Parrish, than trade the whole front line. Boston wanted McHale but 1st overall was too early to take him, so they got McHale at 3 and Parrish, teh Warriors got the first pick, JB Carroll, and 13th pick Rickey Brown. The worst part is if they had just not done that deal the next year they got Purvis Short, one pick ahead of Larry Bird who of course was still in college. So if they had not panicked they would have had Parrish, McHale and Short, not Parrish, McHale and Bird of course but the Celtics dynasty wouldn't have happened without Parrish and McHale.

Jim Barnett used to play for the Warriors and was on tv for them for ages. He told a story once where he had a long talk with Attles and they discussed that 2-3 year period where they lost all the talent. Gus Williams played 2 years for them they let him walk as a FA, the next year they traded Parrish. If you just replay all that, and I know you can't assume draft picks stay the same, but they could have had Gus, Parrish, McHale and Short, all 28 or under at the same time. That's a championship contending team, instead they were horrible for decades.

So I've seen what bad ownership and players are always expendable can do to a franchise.

I know that sort of ineptness doesn't really happen anymore in the NBA but I do see some of Draymond's point that the power is too one sided

You really think so? Sports players have more power than almost any other employee relationship in the world.

 

[Russ Smith]

You really think so? Sports players have more power than almost any other employee relationship in the world.

sure but they have more impact on the product too.

I watched the last half of the Pelicans game last night, it was a relatively close 10 point game. Zion came back in and just went nuts and it was a 20 point game like that. 2nd year guy at his size you have to be concerned about longevity. But that's a franchise that really isn't all that far from being good if they sort out their defense. But so much of that rides on Zion, if I'm him I have to admit I'd be very careful how I play out the rest of my time there you either commit now to putting pieces around me, or I walk first chance I can. Take him off that team, they have some talent but with him they're one of the best offensive teams in the NBA, and it's largely him, everyone else gets open shots because the defense worries about him

same game I'm watching Ja Morant and thinking if he's not careful he's going to spend his career on a bad team that's never bad enough to get a guy like Zion to make them good

So I do see why NBA players want a bit more control, really if you're not a FA you have almost no say unless you do what Harden did.

I mentioned Vucevic the other day that guy is probably going to play out his career with lots of people having no clue who he is because Orlando always sucks. Put him on a good team he's a hero, really good solid player, but he's wasting his career away and appears like they're not going to trade him again.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don’t understand how Zion only averages 7 rebounds per game. I think he’s the Amare Stoudemire version of Charles Barkley.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

sure but they have more impact on the product too.

I watched the last half of the Pelicans game last night, it was a relatively close 10 point game. Zion came back in and just went nuts and it was a 20 point game like that. 2nd year guy at his size you have to be concerned about longevity. But that's a franchise that really isn't all that far from being good if they sort out their defense. But so much of that rides on Zion, if I'm him I have to admit I'd be very careful how I play out the rest of my time there you either commit now to putting pieces around me, or I walk first chance I can. Take him off that team, they have some talent but with him they're one of the best offensive teams in the NBA, and it's largely him, everyone else gets open shots because the defense worries about him

same game I'm watching Ja Morant and thinking if he's not careful he's going to spend his career on a bad team that's never bad enough to get a guy like Zion to make them good

So I do see why NBA players want a bit more control, really if you're not a FA you have almost no say unless you do what Harden did.

I mentioned Vucevic the other day that guy is probably going to play out his career with lots of people having no clue who he is because Orlando always sucks. Put him on a good team he's a hero, really good solid player, but he's wasting his career away and appears like they're not going to trade him again.

The nba isn’t the nfl. There’s no franchise tag. Once these guys are off a rookie contract they are free to sign elsewhere. And once they do they signed a freaking contract. They didn’t have to do so. They didn’t have to sign for as many years as they did.

 

[Russ Smith]

The nba isn’t the nfl. There’s no franchise tag. Once these guys are off a rookie contract they are free to sign elsewhere. And once they do they signed a freaking contract. They didn’t have to do so. They didn’t have to sign for as many years as they did.

Sure but I guess what I mean is they don't have control of who drafts them and if they do just walk, they get blasted.

Vucevic got traded after 1 year in Philly, he's been loyal to Orlando through rebuilds, everytime they start to get a bit better something bad happens, Isaac's ACL, Fultz got hurt again, other things. At a certain point he's got to be fed up with constantly being rumored in trades, and never getting traded to a better situation. I know I would be

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Sure but I guess what I mean is they don't have control of who drafts them and if they do just walk, they get blasted.

Vucevic got traded after 1 year in Philly, he's been loyal to Orlando through rebuilds, everytime they start to get a bit better something bad happens, Isaac's ACL, Fultz got hurt again, other things. At a certain point he's got to be fed up with constantly being rumored in trades, and never getting traded to a better situation. I know I would be

There are millions of reasons to get over that frustration.

 

[GatorAZ]

I don’t understand how Zion only averages 7 rebounds per game. I think he’s the Amare Stoudemire version of Charles Barkley.

He’s averaging less boards than Josh Hart. Odd indeed.

 

[Russ Smith]

Draymond didn't play last night, officially an ankle I am skeptical I suspect he's still mad about the thing with Drummond but I don't know.

They played the heat with Toscano Anderson and Paschall as the only Centers. Down by 19 at one point, 15 in the 4th with 9 minutes left.

Weird game though the Warriors first lead was in the OT, they trailed almost the entire game end to end, and still won by 8.

Olynyk is either injured or washed up he missed 3 layups where they were easy dunks but he couldn't elevate at all. Azabuike doing the game on tv said he must have blown a tire he can't jump at all tonight

They are saying Wiseman and Looney are close to coming back, probably next week if not this weekend.

 

[Mainstreet]

Here are the All-Star starters.

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[Chaplin]

Yawn

 

[Mainstreet]

Draymond didn't play last night, officially an ankle I am skeptical I suspect he's still mad about the thing with Drummond but I don't know.

They played the heat with Toscano Anderson and Paschall as the only Centers. Down by 19 at one point, 15 in the 4th with 9 minutes left.

Weird game though the Warriors first lead was in the OT, they trailed almost the entire game end to end, and still won by 8.

Olynyk is either injured or washed up he missed 3 layups where they were easy dunks but he couldn't elevate at all. Azabuike doing the game on tv said he must have blown a tire he can't jump at all tonight

They are saying Wiseman and Looney are close to coming back, probably next week if not this weekend.

I've noticed the Heat miss Crowder. Wish they had something the Suns want.

 

[Mainstreet]

TNT crew selected Devin Booker as a reserve.

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[Mainstreet]

Devin Booker finished fifth in voting for All-Star starter.

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[Mainstreet]

Duane Rankin doing some forecasting.

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[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

TNT crew selected Devin Booker as a reserve.

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I’m a little surprised he’s a consensus pick

 

[GatorAZ]

Nets crushing the Lakers. We created a monster.