2022-23 Around the NBA Thread

[Cheesebeef]

If we're smart, Paul's contract with it's big fat option should be used to bring in another big contract player from some team that is rudderless. I think Toronto is the most likely to blow it up.

I think Ayton is getting moved in the summer as well. Ayton, Paul's contract with it's big savings... bunch of picks, we'd certainly still be a leading destination in a mega trade. But I doubt any "available" mega trade options would be all that appealing to me. These "trade all the draft capitol for the next 7 years" trades have yielded horrible results for the teams giving their draft away.

I hope the new ownership will invest heavily in scouting and we can continue to grow the team from within, as most long term competitors do.

passing on Halliburton is gonna haunt this team for years.

Really, kinda missing out on ANY all-star level player from 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020 lottery visits is just a killer. Also, the further we get away from the 2016 lottery, the worse it looks that with two picks in the top 8, we grabbed easily the biggest busts in a top 10 that actually had a lot of solid contributors. I mean, if we come out of that draft with Murray/Sabonis instead... Bender/Chriss??

 

[Fumats20]

The Suns didn't pass on Haliburton, they chose CP3 and CP3 wouldn't have come if he wasn't the lead guard. Jones said they only want a vet in the lead guard position. They chose Cam Payne to be the lead guard backup. Only way to change that mindset is to change those with that mindset. The Suns really haven't drafted anyone in the last 3 drafts...which is on par with the new regime's mindset.

Everybody was like "F" them youngins for 2 years when you were winning right along with the Suns brass while the rest of the league plays for today & try to prepare for the future.

Maybe the new owner will have a meeting of the minds to bring a balance but his biggest hurdle is his coach. When his coach winning his coach can do what he wants. Nobody cares how you win just that you win. Because Winning is so rare & hard to do, it aint about the future only now. Question come only when you lose and If his coach continues to lose will he step in and make demands to start incorporating them youngings. Well a coach did just get fired for winning that cost the team the number one pick...so maybe the new owner does nothing.

 

[Hoop Head]

The Suns didn't pass on Haliburton, they chose CP3 and CP3 wouldn't have come if he wasn't the lead guard. Jones said they only want a vet in the lead guard position. They chose Cam Payne to be the lead guard backup. Only way to change that mindset is to change those with that mindset. The Suns really haven't drafted anyone in the last 3 drafts...which is on par with the new regime's mindset.

Everybody was like "F" them youngins for 2 years when you were winning right along with the Suns brass while the rest of the league plays for today & try to prepare for the future.

Maybe the new owner will have a meeting of the minds to bring a balance but his biggest hurdle is his coach. When his coach winning his coach can do what he wants. Nobody cares how you win just that you win. Because Winning is so rare & hard to do, it aint about the future only now. Question come only when you lose and If his coach continues to lose will he step in and make demands to start incorporating them youngings. Well a coach did just get fired for winning that cost the team the number one pick...so maybe the new owner does nothing.

CP3 wanted to play with Booker, he was under contract and didn't choose the Suns like a free agent. He asked to be dealt here and OKC facilitated that deal. A rookie wouldn't chance any part of how that played out. Halliburton would have been Paul's successor.

JJ didn't say screw those youngsters, he said we had enough young talent and we did to a certain extent. However he still made the choice to draft Stix and then not extend him despite failing to properly evaluate him. He was the only youngster that wasn't playing.

I was fine with the Shamet acquisition because he was relatively young and we were in win now mode so it made more sense to add him than a late 1st rounder but it seems he doesn't really excel in his role here backing up Booker. He doesn't an ok job starting for Booker when Booker has missed games but now that Book is out for an extended period he hasn't shown the ability to step up continually. He was still grossly overpaid and that falls on JJ.

I don't blame Monty for most of the issues because he's doing what he can with what he has but what he has. You cant blame a chef for a bad meal when he's only able to cook wirh expired goods he found in the pantry. It's JJ's job to keep the pantry stocked and he's failed to do that for 2 seasons now.

 

[Phrazbit]

The Suns didn't pass on Haliburton, they chose CP3 and CP3 wouldn't have come if he wasn't the lead guard. Jones said they only want a vet in the lead guard position. They chose Cam Payne to be the lead guard backup. Only way to change that mindset is to change those with that mindset. The Suns really haven't drafted anyone in the last 3 drafts...which is on par with the new regime's mindset.

Everybody was like "F" them youngins for 2 years when you were winning right along with the Suns brass while the rest of the league plays for today & try to prepare for the future.

Maybe the new owner will have a meeting of the minds to bring a balance but his biggest hurdle is his coach. When his coach winning his coach can do what he wants. Nobody cares how you win just that you win. Because Winning is so rare & hard to do, it aint about the future only now. Question come only when you lose and If his coach continues to lose will he step in and make demands to start incorporating them youngings. Well a coach did just get fired for winning that cost the team the number one pick...so maybe the new owner does nothing.

I have a hard time believing that CP3 would have been threatened by a point guard fresh out of college. Also, we traded for him, as an aged veteran, he didn't force his way here.

We did pass on Haliburton, I don't loath JJ, as many here do, but was an obvious mistake in the moment and one that has only become more painful over time.

 

[Fumats20]

The Suns choice to pass. When the Suns chose they also have to accommodate _____ .

And it's the primary reason why they won year 1 & 2. If they chose otherwise they were losing year 1 & 2 and year 3 look like Indiana who may not make it past round one. A minimum of 3 years before you become consistent contenders. Yall be crying you eyes out demanding vets...like Indiana is doing it the middle of a rebuild because they can taste success after a long drought.

Hali got 15-20 shots & 30+ minutes all 3 years. Where were those shots & minutes coming from? Booker? CP3? Ayton? Payne who had proven his worth by the time CP3 came didn't even get that kind of shots & minutes. And you think Monty gives it to Haliburton over CP3 & Booker? ... when it's been pointed out your current best player is a screener for your bench player?

The reason for Hali's growth is he got that at SAC first. Very smart of his agent to have the vision & ability to make it happen. Anybody who gets those minutes & shots puts up those kinds of numbers. When Washington gets those minutes & shots he puts up numbers should he be CP3 replacement?

 

[Yuma]

Kevin Durant is diagnosed with the same injury that sidelined him the season before. They are now saying they will re-evaluate him in two weeks but if it's just as bad as last time? Oh boy!

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I know if we are tanking for Webanyama if we trade for a hurt Durant.

 

[Hoop Head]

The Suns choice to pass. When the Suns chose they also have to accommodate _____ .

And it's the primary reason why they won year 1 & 2. If they chose otherwise they were losing year 1 & 2 and year 3 look like Indiana who may not make it past round one. A minimum of 3 years before you become consistent contenders. Yall be crying you eyes out demanding vets...like Indiana is doing it the middle of a rebuild because they can taste success after a long drought.

Hali got 15-20 shots & 30+ minutes all 3 years. Where were those shots & minutes coming from? Booker? CP3? Ayton? Payne who had proven his worth by the time CP3 came didn't even get that kind of shots & minutes. And you think Monty gives it to Haliburton over CP3 & Booker? ... when it's been pointed out your current best player is a screener for your bench player?

The reason for Hali's growth is he got that at SAC first. Very smart of his agent to have the vision & ability to make it happen. Anybody who gets those minutes & shots puts up those kinds of numbers. When Washington gets those minutes & shots he puts up numbers should he be CP3 replacement?

Halliburton was NBA ready, as he proved in Sacramento. Scouts even said he was NBA ready pre-draft. Sure it helped that he landed on a terrible team but he beat out others there for time like Fox and Hield, who were in place as Sacramento's backcourt of the future and present.

You also claim Payne proved himself by that point but he hadn't. He had 8 good games in the bubble after being out of the league. He was brought back on a minimum deal in hopes he could continue his bubble play but Halliburton would have outplayed him.

Taking Hali wouldn't have changed much of anything as CP3 would still start but there'd be more depth at G. Perhaps Halliburton could have played more in the playoff run helping keep CP3 from getting so banged up.

You're either misremembering how everything went down or hoping no one else recalls what happened. I'm not sure which. The bottom line is JJ whiffed on the Stix pick as there was a really good PG available there, as well as other like Achuiwa, Cole Anthony, Isaiah Stewart, Aleksej Pokusevski, Saddiq Bey, and Tyrese Maxey all available and projected higher than Jalen. It's not like it was just passing on Halliburton was the issue, it's who he picked and how he handled it.

 

[Fumats20]

But the Suns picked none.

And based on pure math, the Suns couldn't provide any of them same minutes & shots they all got on the team that selected them. Majority of those teams had "loosing" records with them getting those minutes.

This aint just about a would could shoulda...it's a path the Suns took, doubled down on it now what will the do. The very thing they should have done from the start, value a rookie, develop a rookie and not act like rookies aren't worth a damn (per Jones own words?.

I'm not saying who they should have picked, I'm saying based on what they did its very more than likely talent would have still been wasted because the Suns trajectory changed with CP3. It's either you don't get CP3 and get your prize and lose or pick Cp3 and win now. The Suns picked winning now. Cp3 & Hali slows Hali growth. No way he gets 30 minutes & 20 shots as a rookie with the Suns and that's the most important reason he developed into who he is today ....even Hali agent knew that.

What's important to the Suns is what lesson did it learn? Or will they continue on the path they have been steadfast about?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The Suns choice to pass. When the Suns chose they also have to accommodate _____ .

And it's the primary reason why they won year 1 & 2. If they chose otherwise they were losing year 1 & 2 and year 3 look like Indiana who may not make it past round one. A minimum of 3 years before you become consistent contenders. Yall be crying you eyes out demanding vets...like Indiana is doing it the middle of a rebuild because they can taste success after a long drought.

Hali got 15-20 shots & 30+ minutes all 3 years. Where were those shots & minutes coming from? Booker? CP3? Ayton? Payne who had proven his worth by the time CP3 came didn't even get that kind of shots & minutes. And you think Monty gives it to Haliburton over CP3 & Booker? ... when it's been pointed out your current best player is a screener for your bench player?

The reason for Hali's growth is he got that at SAC first. Very smart of his agent to have the vision & ability to make it happen. Anybody who gets those minutes & shots puts up those kinds of numbers. When Washington gets those minutes & shots he puts up numbers should he be CP3 replacement?

Man I don’t have the energy to take this post apart piece by piece, but ALL of it is wrong.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

But the Suns picked none.

And based on pure math, the Suns couldn't provide any of them same minutes & shots they all got on the team that selected them. Majority of those teams had "loosing" records with them getting those minutes.

This aint just about a would could shoulda...it's a path the Suns took, doubled down on it now what will the do. The very thing they should have done from the start, value a rookie, develop a rookie and not act like rookies aren't worth a damn (per Jones own words?.

I'm not saying who they should have picked, I'm saying based on what they did its very more than likely talent would have still been wasted because the Suns trajectory changed with CP3. It's either you don't get CP3 and get your prize and lose or pick Cp3 and win now. The Suns picked winning now. Cp3 & Hali slows Hali growth. No way he gets 30 minutes & 20 shots as a rookie with the Suns and that's the most important reason he developed into who he is today ....even Hali agent knew that.

What's important to the Suns is what lesson did it learn? Or will they continue on the path they have been steadfast about?

History doesn’t support your thesis that a young player sitting never taps his potential. Because that’s what you’re saying.

 

[Yuma]

There is a reason so many teams chose to pass. Now in hindsight everyone is jumping on the "we should have picked him" bandwagon. Not just our fanbase, too.

 

[Phrazbit]

There is a reason so many teams chose to pass. Now in hindsight everyone is jumping on the "we should have picked him" bandwagon. Not just our fanbase, too.

I think with Haliburton it is a bit different. I roll my eyes when I see people lament that their team stupidly passed on Jokic or Giannis... literally no one saw it coming with those guys.

However, Haliberton was "the guy" that this board, the local media, all kinds of speculation that he was the guy we would take if he was on the board and was a really obvious fit. Griping about passing up on Haliberton isn't hindsight, this board was thrilled when our pick was coming up and he was still on the board.

But hey, who knows, maybe he spends his rookie year, buried on the bench behind Paul and Payne and then Sarver, in his grand idiocy, tears up his contract, just like Smith.

 

[Ronin]

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[AzStevenCal]

I think with Haliburton it is a bit different. I roll my eyes when I see people lament that their team stupidly passed on Jokic or Giannis... literally no one saw it coming with those guys.

However, Haliberton was "the guy" that this board, the local media, all kinds of speculation that he was the guy we would take if he was on the board and was a really obvious fit. Griping about passing up on Haliberton isn't hindsight, this board was thrilled when our pick was coming up and he was still on the board.

But hey, who knows, maybe he spends his rookie year, buried on the bench behind Paul and Payne and then Sarver, in his grand idiocy, tears up his contract, just like Smith.

I still believe we did what we should have done in passing on Haliburton but you're right, this is the opposite of hindsight. Most fans here (and most fans on Spurstalk and other fan sites) were thrilled when it looked like he'd dropped to their draft slot. And all were dismayed when their team passed on him until the reports came out about why they passed on him.

 

[Mainstreet]

Even if Tyrese Haliburton didn't interview or workout for the Suns he was still a safer pick than Jalen Smith.

Jalen Smith, although talented, was a development player. The Suns didn't have the patience to develop him so it turned into a wasted pick.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Even if Tyrese Haliburton didn't interview or workout for the Suns he was still a safer pick than Jalen Smith.

Jalen Smith, although talented, was a development player. The Suns didn't have the patience to develop him so it turned into a wasted pick.

He was a better pick, that's clear and it was clear to most at the time too. But no way would I ever draft a player that was unwilling to play for me, unwilling to work out for me, unwilling to even meet with me and unwilling to provide medical records. And the medical records was the big issue IMO. In hindsight, I wish we drafted him anyway but I certainly would have made the same call JJ did.

And keep in mind, though he was highly regarded, we knew much less about Tyrese than we do most draftable sophomores because Covid put an early end to the season and cancelled the postseason tournaments where so many draft reputations are forged.

 

[Mainstreet]

He was a better pick, that's clear and it was clear to most at the time too. But no way would I ever draft a player that was unwilling to play for me, unwilling to work out for me, unwilling to even meet with me and unwilling to provide medical records. And the medical records was the big issue IMO. In hindsight, I wish we drafted him anyway but I certainly would have made the same call JJ did.

And keep in mind, though he was highly regarded, we knew much less about Tyrese than we do most draftable sophomores because Covid put an early end to the season and cancelled the postseason tournaments where so many draft reputations are forged.

This will be a fun discussion for the ages.

I kind of liked that Karl Malone fella who didn't work out for the Suns either.

Also, Jayson Williams didn't want to play for the Suns but IIRC, they ended up trading him for a 1st round pick. The Suns could have done the same with Haliburton if it hadn't worked out.

 

[AzStevenCal]

This will be a fun discussion for the ages.

I kind of liked that Karl Malone fella who didn't work out for the Suns either.

Also, Jayson Williams didn't want to play for the Suns but IIRC, they ended up trading him for a 1st round pick. The Suns could have done the same with Haliburton if it hadn't worked out.

Again, medical records. What kind of value would Tyrese have had if he wouldn't report to camp and wouldn't provide medical records?

I'd be all for calling his bluff if we knew he was healthy and not hiding something.

 

[Yuma]

Again, medical records. What kind of value would Tyrese have had if he wouldn't report to camp and wouldn't provide medical records?

I'd be all for calling his bluff if we knew he was healthy and not hiding something.

Same as a Crowder who won't report to camp.....

 

[Carolinacacti]

Suns needed a PF the problem was they took Smith. I wanted Precious Achiuwa

 

[Mainstreet]

Again, medical records. What kind of value would Tyrese have had if he wouldn't report to camp and wouldn't provide medical records?

I'd be all for calling his bluff if we knew he was healthy and not hiding something.

I think you have to go on what you know when a star caliber player is available on a rookie contract.

 

[Mainstreet]

Suns needed a PF the problem was they took Smith. I wanted Precious Achiuwa

I think Precious Achiuwa and Devin Vassell fell under the safe pick category in the 2020 draft.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

There is a reason so many teams chose to pass. Now in hindsight everyone is jumping on the "we should have picked him" bandwagon. Not just our fanbase, too.

Except many of us were clamoring for him in real time.

 

[Hoop Head]

There is a reason so many teams chose to pass. Now in hindsight everyone is jumping on the "we should have picked him" bandwagon. Not just our fanbase, too.

You started a thread in April 2021 about if the Suns took Halliburton. It's not suddenly in vogue and a bandwagon hasn't just formed.

What if Suns took Tyrese Haliburton?

It seems to be the in vogue talking point by a few commentators I have heard lately, including Bill Simmons, that the Suns would be their favorites in the Western Conference if they would have taken Tyrese Haliburton in the draft. I know one of the guys on TNT said this, too. Do you agree with...

www.arizonasportsfans.com

Feel free to check out the 2020 Draft thread also, virtually everyone mentions Hali at the top of their wishlist but most figure he won't fall all the way to us.

2020 Draft

If we make a move at the deadline, it might include trading away this year's first round draft pick. It might make sense to have a sense of what that pick might bring. Here are some players that intrigue me. 1. Vernon Carey Jr. Plays a bit slow, but big, strong, and while he does not shoot...

www.arizonasportsfans.com

 

[Yuma]

You started a thread in April 2021 about if the Suns took Halliburton. It's not suddenly in vogue and a bandwagon hasn't just formed.

What if Suns took Tyrese Haliburton?

It seems to be the in vogue talking point by a few commentators I have heard lately, including Bill Simmons, that the Suns would be their favorites in the Western Conference if they would have taken Tyrese Haliburton in the draft. I know one of the guys on TNT said this, too. Do you agree with...

www.arizonasportsfans.com

Feel free to check out the 2020 Draft thread also, virtually everyone mentions Hali at the top of their wishlist but most figure he won't fall all the way to us.

2020 Draft

If we make a move at the deadline, it might include trading away this year's first round draft pick. It might make sense to have a sense of what that pick might bring. Here are some players that intrigue me. 1. Vernon Carey Jr. Plays a bit slow, but big, strong, and while he does not shoot...

www.arizonasportsfans.com

Yes. It's not vogue on draft night. What I precisely said, it is vogue to look back in hindsight and say what we should have done. I guess the difference was, I wasn't one of those pursuing him at all costs.